Now I am getting very concerned about her housebreaking!!!!

[animalvr32]

Ok, most of you who have seen my previous thread know what problems I am having with Riley. Well she was spayed on thursday and is now on a 21 day course of antibiotics for the vaginitis. So - today she was in her crate for an hour and a half - PEED!! UGH!! I am getting so frustrated. What am I to expect from her? Is she ever going to be able to hold it for more that 2 hrs during the day? Could this be spite? I dont really believe that but I guess anything is possible. Thanks in advance for the advice. Jamie

 

[Zoom]

I think it's probably due to the fact that she's sick. I wouldn't worry a whole lot about it just yet.

 

[wookie130]

Ok, most of you who have seen my previous thread know what problems I am having with Riley. Well she was spayed on thursday and is now on a 21 day course of antibiotics for the vaginitis. So - today she was in her crate for an hour and a half - PEED!! UGH!! I am getting so frustrated. What am I to expect from her? Is she ever going to be able to hold it for more that 2 hrs during the day? Could this be spite? I dont really believe that but I guess anything is possible. Thanks in advance for the advice. Jamie

Yes, she will be able to hold it for more than 2 hours in the future. Poor honey has just been through a spay, and is taking a long course of antibiotics for vaginitis...my female dog (Puppy) went through the same thing as a pup. Not fun.

One thing to sincerely keep in mind is that "spite" is not in your dog's emotional repetoire. Really, one of the ultimate missions in life for most dogs is to PLEASE, and have earn praise and positive reinforcement from their humans...dogs do not feel guilt (when they hang their tails, and hide after a potty accident, it's because they are expecting the anger response that so many owners provide consistently...it has nothing to do with guilt, shame, spite, etc.).

I would definitely try to take Riley out once every hour...give her a chance to be successful at this potty thing. While she is going potty (I mean catch her during the actual act), praise her, praise her, praise her!!! And when she is done, reward her with a very reinforcing edible treat. Keeping in mind that she's had a vaginal infection...health issues can always hinder the potty training process, so expect more gradual success in the future, and try to remain positive. You both can do this...and really, Riley most likely wants to make you proud and happy.

 

[RedyreRottweilers]

Please consider the fact that your dog is recovering from major surgery and is dealing with an infection at the same time.

 

[animalvr32]

I know that. I do understand. Maybe not as much as I should I guess.
Thanks for the advice.

 

[Dana1384]

:lol-sign: I honsty do think dogs have spite, and feel guilty. Great example my new puppy stu plans pranks. My boyfriend punished him for chewing up one of his shoes. Well a few hours later i was watching a movie and he kept running back and worth looking into the hallway, and who run back all excited, this went on for a least half an hour. So my boyfriend gets up to go outside and Stu pooped on his sandle under the band, but right as Steve started to yell Stu jumped off the couch, runs over there and watches Steve freak out for a second, runs back to couch jumps up, he was scared but excited all at the same time, like he was thinking it was worth being punished, it was so funny... So i do believe dogs can manage spite. Give your dog more credit, my Golden does it all the time, and you know when she is mad at you.

 

[Rubylove]

Dana I hate to break it to you but it's just not true! Your dog is a puppy and was excited and most probably confused. You said it yourself, `he was scared but excited all at the same time'. You need to stop confusing your puppy! I sure hope your boyfriend punished him because he caught him in the act of chewing up one of his shoes - not hours later when the dog wouldn't have had a clue what he was being punished for.

Spite, guilt, planning pranks etc - these are complex thought processes and dogs do not operate this way. This is a result of years and years and years of comprehensive study and research, scientific analysis by behaviourists, trainers, veterinarians and dog professionals. It is very easy to think that dogs think and feel the way we do - because we interpret their body language from a human perspective - what you're doing is called anthropomorphising, which means attributing human characteristics to animals. It is the biggest sole mistake pet owners make with their animals.

It is not about giving credit, it is about understanding the nature of dogs - which ultimately gives them much more respect and credit than totally misinterpreting behaviours and reacting wrongly as a result.

I should warn you - you might get a lot of very heavy replies as a result of your post, so don't get upset. I'm trying to be your friend here and dispel your thinking because it is wrong and could be harmful for your puppy's development. It would be a good idea to be open-minded and learn from a number of people here who know a very great deal about dogs, their psyche and their behaviour, from having experience and working with hundreds of dogs - not just one puppy!

BTW - yelling at your puppy is a really poor way to discipline it. It won't get the message it'll just get that it's being yelled at for something. And you should NEVER yell at your dog for going to the toilet inside when it is a puppy - just like you wouldn't yell at a baby for going to the toilet inside it's nappy. Dogs don't have the luxury of nappies but they still have to go when they have to go. It's up to you to TEACH them where is right, not punish them when they do something perfectly natural. By yelling at it when it poops (or worse still - after it has and you find a poo somewhere) all you will do is teach your dog to hide its poo - which it sounds like it's doing anyway because it popped under the band of the sandle. If you find a poo - point at the poo and yell at your dog, all you will do it teach the dog that poo is bad, and it will try to do them where you can't find them. You are not teaching it that pooing INSIDE is bad - and it's not something they can work out for themselves without a different kind of approach.

Animalluvr - to answer your question. It's not spite, and even if a dog was capable of spite, think of it this way. What does your puppy possibly have to gain by peeing in it's crate? And why would she be trying to spite you? I don't think she was sitting there in the crate thinking `Well, I know this is really going to p*** my Mummy off - it'll make her mad and I want to make her mad because she's not good to me. I know! I'll pee in my crate!' Of course she's not thinking that! She's had an operation, she's sick and she's a baby - she can't hold her bladder for that long and ESPECIALLY not when she's sick! She shouldn't be in her crate for that long at this stage anyway when she's a pup - or if she is in it, it should be with the door open so that she can tell you when she needs to go.

A crate is a training tool - it's not something to leave your dog in for so long that it has no choice but to potty there because it is trapped and can't get out and go potty anywhere else!

 

[latrgatr68]

puppy with no control

I have a jack russell puppy, 3-4 months old. I know that puppies have no bladder control but this is ridiculous. He doesn't seem to know he is peeing. I think he does the submissive peeing and we are now watching to avoid that but he doesn't show the classic signs of needing to go. He just goes while walking around. He doesn't seem to know he is doing it. I have to keep a bucket of soapy water around constantly to wipe up after him. And forget about letting him roam during the night, you get up in the middle of the night and step into an accident. You can't gauge when he is going to go. We have taken him and our other dogs (all small) for extended walks in the park and I have seen him squat once or twice but I know he urinates more than that cause he takes in a LOT of water! Could he have a bladder problem? I can't afford to take him to the vet as a constant. I just got him last week. Can I get some advice from you or someone else reading this. We, my whole family have bonded with him and has already seen his protective side. I'm not getting rid of him. Just don't know what to do at this point. We have tile floors in most of our house. You would think that it would be easy for us to keep the floor void of urine but the grout around the tiles must have urine soaked in there. Not sure if it can be cleaned. Any suggestions to anything I've asked about.

Will answer all questions. Feel free to PM.
Thanks.
Carol

 

[animalvr32]

Well, I for one am no expert. I do however think that this is something that should be addressed by a vet. I understand the costs of vet bills but that is what comes along with having a pet. Trust me I know. Anyway, you should not let this go. It is true that they dont have complete control yet but he should not be going just by walking around and not even seeming to realize it.

 

[Rubylove]

I have a jack russell puppy, 3-4 months old. I know that puppies have no bladder control but this is ridiculous. He doesn't seem to know he is peeing. I think he does the submissive peeing and we are now watching to avoid that but he doesn't show the classic signs of needing to go. He just goes while walking around. He doesn't seem to know he is doing it. I have to keep a bucket of soapy water around constantly to wipe up after him. And forget about letting him roam during the night, you get up in the middle of the night and step into an accident. You can't gauge when he is going to go. We have taken him and our other dogs (all small) for extended walks in the park and I have seen him squat once or twice but I know he urinates more than that cause he takes in a LOT of water! Could he have a bladder problem? I can't afford to take him to the vet as a constant. I just got him last week. Can I get some advice from you or someone else reading this. We, my whole family have bonded with him and has already seen his protective side. I'm not getting rid of him. Just don't know what to do at this point. We have tile floors in most of our house. You would think that it would be easy for us to keep the floor void of urine but the grout around the tiles must have urine soaked in there. Not sure if it can be cleaned. Any suggestions to anything I've asked about.

Will answer all questions. Feel free to PM.
Thanks.
Carol

That's not a bladder control issue that's an incontinence issue and yes, has to be seen to by a vet. If he is also drinking a lot of water this could be a sign of illness - dogs don't overdrink as a rule.

I'm glad you're not `getting rid of him' as you put it. I would hope that nobody would rehome their pet because it has an illness that it couldn't help - although I suspect that you may have ended up with him for just that reason. Sounds like you're a better person than his last owners if that's the case.

I'm sorry that this dog came to you with some physical issues - that is difficult because it causes expenses that you might not be prepared for. But vet care is part of responsible pet ownership and your dog shouldn't suffer or be uncomfortable or have to live with an illness and covered in his own pee because you can't afford the vet. These things need to be considered before getting a pet, and it may be that you will have to consider rehoming him if you can't afford to make sure he does not live with illness.

Vet visits most likely wouldn't have to be a constant thing, but there are times during his life when you will have to take him and unfortunately that does cost money. Most vets will allow you to work out a payment plan if necessary but it sounds to me as though your dog is unwell and if you leave it then it could lead to a much worse problem that cannot be fixed simply or cheaply. Also, it will be better in the long run to take him now because it will help the amount of work that you are putting into him just simply cleaning up after him.

Good luck and let us know what the vet says.

 

[latrgatr68]

Confused

Good God. I was looking for advice not lectures on being a responsible pet owner. I know that going to a vet is the answer. I wanted to know if anyone has ever heard of this happening to anyone they knew because I thought that maybe it might be something to try before going through the expense of a vet. I'm not stupid. I know that vet visits are the responsible thing to do to make sure a healthy pet is a happy pet. I've been a responsible pet owner and foster pet person for many years now. What is wrong with getting some advice first? What is wrong with finding out how other people reacted to a situation like this? I don't give up on my animals. I have bottlefed infant animals and given much older animals a happy place to spend their last days. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't jumping the gun by looking like I was freaking out too soon by rushing to the vet. I don't want to be a paranoid owner but I AM RESPONSIBLE!! Have more faith in people by reserving your judgement until you know what I am about. It is better to be a concerned friend than a judgemental nag.

Be nicer with your replies. Feelings can get hurt with those attitudes. I just signed up for this forum. You people don't give me a reason to want to come back, you know.

 

[RD]

Carol, Rubylove wasn't being rude. I agree with her, this doesn't sound like something that can be addressed over an internet forum.

I have a dog that peed like that as a puppy. He had a urinary tract infection. Antibiotics cleared it up.

 

[Rubylove]

Thanks RD - and Carol, no I wasn't trying to be rude. I actually edited my post A LOT before I submitted it specifically so I wouldn't sound rude.

You are welcome at this forum, but you need to understand how many people get on here and say `Please help me with my dog I can't afford to take it to the vet' and expect expert advice online. It's very frustrating and we can take a little bit of a hard line with people who say that. It's probably a bit unfair and it does seem judgmental, but after a while on any dog forum you'll develop a bit of a thicker skin and see that our main concern is always for the welfare of the animals discussed, so we can sometimes come off not very friendly towards their humans!

**hugs** let's start again - I didn't mean to imply that you weren't responsible, and it sounds as though you have a lot of experience and will do the right thing by your puppy. I have a lot of experience with incontinence in one of my dogs and it has been helped immensely by prolonged courses of antibiotics and a slight change in her routine.

 

[latrgatr68]

Sorry. A little defensive. Sorry to snap. I realize it isn't normal forum stuff. I do know that I need a vet to help with diagnosing the problem. I was just asking if anyone had had this experience with a dog or puppy and find out was they had done and found out. It DOES sound like a urinary tract infection.

I didn't mean to come off as to say I couldn't afford a vet visit. I am fine with regular health care. I will admit I was concerned about the cost of extended care or hospital costs. My rat terrier has a T-cell defect and it causes problems for him twice a month and was so bad the last time, that he stayed overnight at the vet's office on IVs. I have spent as much as 1000 dollars in a year on his flair ups so I do take care of my own. My Chi/Whippet mix had a prolapsed anus because of constipation problems. Because I couldn't afford the costs at the time because of my husband's health problems then, I read up on it and took care of it myself. I used my pinky and pushed it gently back in, gave her a small amount of laxative and she is fine now, although occasionally she still gets constipation and is treated by a small amount of laxative. God knows what a doctor would have charged me for that! But I was a vet assistant for 6 months, I was fairly confident of my abilities.

 

[wookie130]

Although it does sound like something that needs to be looked at by a vet, I just wanted to throw in a quick tidbit on how to clean up a dog's accidents, as it can actually prevent future accidents. You mentioned that you're following the pup around with a bucket of soapy water...what product are you using to clean up the pee and poop? I'm asking, because dogs will smell their territorial markings, and continually revisit the same areas to eliminate if the odor of their markings are still present. Check into a enzyme-based pet accident product, such as Nature's Miracle, or Simple Solution, and after cleaning up the actual pee and poop, treat the area with these products for quite a while to eliminate the odor...trust me, your dog can smell his accidents long after you can't! And my other recommendation, is to not allow him to witness you cleaning up after him...relocate him to a different area of your home, or place him outside during the cleaning.

Like I said before, it sounds like it could possibly be a UTI, which will need to be treated by a vet. These are common ailments in dogs, unfortunately, and I would be willing to bet that it won't cost you an arm and a leg in vet bills to solve the problem...

Good luck, and let us know how he's coming along!

 

[Rubylove]

Although it does sound like something that needs to be looked at by a vet, I just wanted to throw in a quick tidbit on how to clean up a dog's accidents, as it can actually prevent future accidents. You mentioned that you're following the pup around with a bucket of soapy water...what product are you using to clean up the pee and poop? I'm asking, because dogs will smell their territorial markings, and continually revisit the same areas to eliminate if the odor of their markings are still present. Check into a enzyme-based pet accident product, such as Nature's Miracle, or Simple Solution, and after cleaning up the actual pee and poop, treat the area with these products for quite a while to eliminate the odor...trust me, your dog can smell his accidents long after you can't! And my other recommendation, is to not allow him to witness you cleaning up after him...relocate him to a different area of your home, or place him outside during the cleaning.

Like I said before, it sounds like it could possibly be a UTI, which will need to be treated by a vet. These are common ailments in dogs, unfortunately, and I would be willing to bet that it won't cost you an arm and a leg in vet bills to solve the problem...

Good luck, and let us know how he's coming along!

Sorry to hijack - are you also Wookie130 on The Cat Site? If so, hello! I am KitEKats4Eva!

 

[latrgatr68]

Wookie.....Can the whole floor be washed with the Nature's Miracle? I have had dogs in the past have accidents. Could he be smelling those too? I'll bet!! I've used KennelSol (used in vets office's) and PineSol. I've also used Bleach in the past. I've considered Ammonia. I'd be very happy to put him in the outside kennel and mop the whole house.
Thanks for the tip. I'll let you know how things go.

Oh, I bought him one of those doggy diapers for accidents. They work pretty good.

 

[wookie130]

Sorry to hijack - are you also Wookie130 on The Cat Site? If so, hello! I am KitEKats4Eva!

Yes I am!!! Good to see you on here!!! Small world, huh?

I don't see why the Nature's Miracle couldn't be used on the whole floor...you'd just have to have a good 2-3 gallons of it, depending on how much floor we're talking about here...it does come in gallon sizes, if you're interested.

 

[latrgatr68]

thanks Wookie. I'll check into it.

 

[latrgatr68]

Had to stop using the diaper for awhile. It was chafing Rascal underneath the legs. Will have to treat the sores before using it again on a less often basis.