No Name's pedigree

[JennSLK]

So I am going to classes tonight with Dan and his girl. He said he will bring an unoficial pedigree of No Name's either tonight or tomorrow night. Now, were would I look up the dogs in the pedigree's previous show records? I will post it on Sitstay.com when I get it.

 

[motherofmany]

Show records be hanged What you want is pictures for at least 3 generations! Does he have those?

It would be very nice if you could arrange to get contact numbers for the breeders represented in the pedigree too, so you can call them and ask them about soundness, structure and temperament.

 

[JennSLK]

Im fairly sure he has them. I know he showed me the sire, and grandsire. I just cant remember the reg names of them.

I talked to the grandma of no name's breeder. She's verry nice and the dog that is related to no name wow almost everything at the show I was at last month (I know doesnt really mean all that much). I will ask him tonight about pics. He got Starling (the grandma) from this breeder (cant remember her first name) and bred Daci and Maggie (no name's mom) from her.

I will get pics and I'll write the names down if I have to to remember them.

So far he has been more than willing to answer my questions and talk to the people who have pups. He doesnt APEAR to have anything to hide wich is a step in the right direction. I went with him when the pups got their tails and dew claws done.

 

[motherofmany]

I'll bet you are getting so excited!

 

[JennSLK]

INCREDABLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No offence to those who this does not hold true for, but....

I noticed that all most breeders care about if their dog's winning or not. I mean, dont get me wrong. If no name looses everything I would be disapointed, but I would still love her to death.

Im getting into showing because I love dogs and I love showing. I have to wonder if they started out that way, and now its more the prestege (sp?) of winning that drives them.

 

[Gwinnywillow]

INCREDABLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No offence to those who this does not hold true for, but....

I noticed that all most breeders care about if their dog's winning or not. I mean, dont get me wrong. If no name looses everything I would be disapointed, but I would still love her to death.

Im getting into showing because I love dogs and I love showing. I have to wonder if they started out that way, and now its more the prestege (sp?) of winning that drives them.

Most breeders/exhibitors realize that championships are for the most part bought, not deserved. It is PURE politics, except for a few smaller breeds where you still have a majority of breeder/owner/handlers. There are many champions of various breeds walking around whose very championships are an embarrassment to the judges that put them up.

So, show for the fun of it, show to get a look at what is out there, show for the chance to be with other dog addicts, learn about bloodlines, and have a good time. If you really want to accomplish something with your dog, as I said previously, show in obedience and agility, where it is just you against a scale of points and no bias or politics. There are obedience championships nowadays, ya know! That means a heck of a lot more than a conformation championship!!!!!!!!

 

[JennSLK]

For the milonth time Gwinnywillow I AM going to do obediance and agility, but I am going to show as well.

For such an expert dog person with such knowledge of the show rings, you really do not like showing. At least it seems that way to me, since everytime I turn around you tell me not to show.

 

[motherofmany]

I noticed that all most breeders care about if their dog's winning or not. I mean, dont get me wrong. If no name looses everything I would be disapointed, but I would still love her to death.

Im getting into showing because I love dogs and I love showing. I have to wonder if they started out that way, and now its more the prestege (sp?) of winning that drives them.

Actually, most breeders, while they enjoy the win, are more interested in attaining goals they set for improving breed type and structure. There are a few bad eggs out there that give the sport a black eye (catty people, ringside know-it-alls, jealous types, people who are so egotistical that they think nothing good has come from anywhere but their kennels) but when you begin to seriously interact with good, ethical breeders what you will find is a complete devotion to their dogs and to improving their breed. There are very good people in the dog show world, I hope your Dan is one of them and I hope you enjoy your experiences.

 

[RedyreRottweilers]

Most breeders/exhibitors realize that championships are for the most part bought, not deserved. It is PURE politics, except for a few smaller breeds where you still have a majority of breeder/owner/handlers.

Gwinny, this is so untrue, and I really resent the fact that you would insinuate anything of the kind. The points I have earned over the years owner handling my Rottweilers have been earned fairly with good dogs. I am down ot only majors to finish my young bitch, and I have NO DOUBT that she will finish soon in fine fashion.

To insinuate that almost all CH titles are bought and not earned is to cheapen the efforts I've gone to to learn how to present my dog properly, and is an affront to my VERY NICE YOUNG BITCH, and the many others who are shown and finished, either by owner handlers, OR handlers, who are of excellent quality.

Your posts tend to have a bitter tone to them. I won't stand by and hear anyone state that all dog shows are about politics because they are NOT.

There are many champions of various breeds walking around whose very championships are an embarrassment to the judges that put them up.

So, show for the fun of it, show to get a look at what is out there, show for the chance to be with other dog addicts, learn about bloodlines, and have a good time. If you really want to accomplish something with your dog, as I said previously, show in obedience and agility, where it is just you against a scale of points and no bias or politics. There are obedience championships nowadays, ya know! That means a heck of a lot more than a conformation championship!!!!!!!!

So if we all just breed for working traits then there will be no more breeds. Is that were we should go?

I think not.

For me, a dog should be able to do both. It should be a good exmaple of it's breed to look at, and it should be able to do what it was bred for.

 

[Gwinnywillow]

Gwinny, this is so untrue, and I really resent the fact that you would insinuate anything of the kind. The points I have earned over the years owner handling my Rottweilers have been earned fairly with good dogs. I am down ot only majors to finish my young bitch, and I have NO DOUBT that she will finish soon in fine fashion.

To insinuate that almost all CH titles are bought and not earned is to cheapen the efforts I've gone to to learn how to present my dog properly, and is an affront to my VERY NICE YOUNG BITCH, and the many others who are shown and finished, either by owner handlers, OR handlers, who are of excellent quality.

Your posts tend to have a bitter tone to them. I won't stand by and hear anyone state that all dog shows are about politics because they are NOT.





So if we all just breed for working traits then there will be no more breeds. Is that were we should go?

I think not.

For me, a dog should be able to do both. It should be a good exmaple of it's breed to look at, and it should be able to do what it was bred for.

Look, I do not know what the extent of your showing is, but when a handler pays off all the other pro handlers to NOT show their dogs what would YOU call it? And when a handler sends a judge a $2000 case of booze, what would you call it? You are not in the league of the top dogs, and top handlers. Or you would know exactly how true what I say is. Just how many major points have you managed to acquire? Just read your post again. You are down to majors. So are you going to hire a handler to get those majors? Single points are great, but really the circumstances at each show needs to be taken into account. Where there a number of puppies entered? When you get to Westminster, or the Eukanuba shows, or the Purina Invitational, then you will clearly see for yourself what I have said is 100% true.

And I was at that show where the handler offered money to the other handlers. Fool made the mistake of thinking an acquaintance of mine was a pro handler. Did'nt realize she was an owner handler! Boy was that something!!!!!!! And this dude was THE TOP Dobe handler in the world at that time. Talk about BIG boo-boos

And congratuations on your bitch doing so well. Of course the fact that she is a magnificient specimen might have a little to do with it!!!!

 

[Gwinnywillow]

Ps

Gwinny, this is so untrue, and I really resent the fact that you would insinuate anything of the kind. The points I have earned over the years owner handling my Rottweilers have been earned fairly with good dogs. I am down ot only majors to finish my young bitch, and I have NO DOUBT that she will finish soon in fine fashion.

To insinuate that almost all CH titles are bought and not earned is to cheapen the efforts I've gone to to learn how to present my dog properly, and is an affront to my VERY NICE YOUNG BITCH, and the many others who are shown and finished, either by owner handlers, OR handlers, who are of excellent quality.

Your posts tend to have a bitter tone to them. I won't stand by and hear anyone state that all dog shows are about politics because they are NOT.





So if we all just breed for working traits then there will be no more breeds. Is that were we should go?

I think not.

For me, a dog should be able to do both. It should be a good exmaple of it's breed to look at, and it should be able to do what it was bred for.

And if you choose to take something someone says personally, that is your problem. You seem to think more highly of your existence than other do!!!!!! You never even entered my mind! Sorry 'bout dat.

 

[filarotten]

Ya know, Gwinny, you are starting to annoy me. I am not sure why you feel you are an expert on every dog breed, but so far you seem to be wrong about many things. First off, I was not referring to pacing of the Filas, that is how they walk, if they do not have the camel walk they do not have the correct conformation for a Fila. And, I will repeat, my Rottie does not roll when she walks or paces. She is normal.
To say every dog that wins in conformation only wins by basically paying off the judge is a cheap shot.
Brutus' breeder is one of the most respected and best breeders in the United States, and she has a great rep in Brazil from what I understand. No, I'm not showing for conformation or breeding, that does not interest me.
And, I agree with Redyre, you have such a bitter tone. As a matter of fact what dogs do you own? How do you feel you have the expertise to tell everyone that their dogs suck? What qualifications do you have to tell every breed owner what their dogs conformation ability should be like? Do you judge every breed on this planet? Not everyone wants or is showing just for conformation. Brutus is going to be taking tracking classes does that make him a lesser dog in your estimation? Gee will I have to pay off the judge when we reach the point of competition? He and I are going to do it for fun. Yes I said fun. I think he will enjoy it, I don't have any animals for him to herd so I chose something else he will enjoy. BTW, Filas do have a great sense of smell.
Maybe you should do some research before giving your expert opinion and downgrading everyone and every dog on this forum.
One other thing, I do believe from Redyres post , she is a very loving and concerned breeder who cares about the Rottie breed. She has a right to be concerned with your comments.

 

[Gwinnywillow]

For the milonth time Gwinnywillow I AM going to do obediance and agility, but I am going to show as well.

For such an expert dog person with such knowledge of the show rings, you really do not like showing. At least it seems that way to me, since everytime I turn around you tell me not to show.

Gee, Jenn. I am sorry. I did not realize that you are one of the filthy rich who can afford thousands of dollars to show a Dobe! Of course being in Canada makes it much easier to accomplish than if you were in stiff AKC competition. I kind of picture every one being less than rich, such as myself.

I really am not concerned about whether you show in breed or agility, fly ball or obedience or on the moon, lol. I envy you your great surplus of funds. I have two dogs that will soon be have to put to sleep. One from cancer, and the other from old, old, age. And I am working to figure out how to budget my money. The one with cancer is not in a great deal of discomft at this stage. But the 16 year old is getting rather feeble minded, and fragile bodied. And the vet charges for putting a dog to rest is outrageous.

I am sure you will have a blast getting up at 3AM and driving hundreds of miles to a show, and camping out in your car. Showing it so delightful. Once upon a time I stayed with some dear friends who had Kerry Blue Terriers----in fact the top winning, producing Kerries in the history of the breed at that point in 1985. I went to the shows with them. It was hard, exhausting WORK. And naturally I have to be one of those who likes to sleep late! None of that when showing dogs! You learn to sleep standing up at ringside, heheheh.

 

[Gwinnywillow]

Ya know, Gwinny, you are starting to annoy me. I am not sure why you feel you are an expert on every dog breed, but so far you seem to be wrong about many things. First off, I was not referring to pacing of the Filas, that is how they walk, if they do not have the camel walk they do not have the correct conformation for a Fila. And, I will repeat, my Rottie does not roll when she walks or paces. She is normal.
To say every dog that wins in conformation only wins by basically paying off the judge is a cheap shot.
Brutus' breeder is one of the most respected and best breeders in the United States, and she has a great rep in Brazil from what I understand. No, I'm not showing for conformation or breeding, that does not interest me.
And, I agree with Redyre, you have such a bitter tone. As a matter of fact what dogs do you own? How do you feel you have the expertise to tell everyone that their dogs suck? What qualifications do you have to tell every breed owner what their dogs conformation ability should be like? Do you judge every breed on this planet? Not everyone wants or is showing just for conformation. Brutus is going to be taking tracking classes does that make him a lesser dog in your estimation? Gee will I have to pay off the judge when we reach the point of competition? He and I are going to do it for fun. Yes I said fun. I think he will enjoy it, I don't have any animals for him to herd so I chose something else he will enjoy. BTW, Filas do have a great sense of smell.
Maybe you should do some research before giving your expert opinion and downgrading everyone and every dog on this forum.
One other thing, I do believe from Redyres post , she is a very loving and concerned breeder who cares about the Rottie breed. She has a right to be concerned with your comments.

No, I am not an expert......I own a breed standards book. And the Fila I looked up at the parent club website. Any breed I can think of that is going somewhere with the intention of getting there moves at a trot, not a shuffle. But I am sure just as I say that there is some breed somewhere that does.

And I am sorry, but I did not take any cheap shots. I have been personally acquainted with some of the top handlers in the country, many of whom are now judges. You have NO IDEA what goes on to get to the judges, lol. And there is not enough time to ennumerate them all. You perhaps might have seen the movie "The Black Marble"? Or perhaps you know a bunch of handlers and breeders with whom you can verify the actual facts? It would tend to make one bitter. But I got over my bitterness about 20 years ago. If the facts sound bitter......what can I do. If no one wants to hear or know the facts that is their choice.

I doubt that anyone here shows at the level to which I am referring---the showing for acquiring breed points, for ranking???? Specialing??? Not sure of spelling.....turned off darned spell checker. Got tired of fighting with it. Ya should seen what it wanted to do to Fila, lol.

 

[Gwinnywillow]

Ya know, Gwinny, you are starting to annoy me. I am not sure why you feel you are an expert on every dog breed, but so far you seem to be wrong about many things. First off, I was not referring to pacing of the Filas, that is how they walk, if they do not have the camel walk they do not have the correct conformation for a Fila. And, I will repeat, my Rottie does not roll when she walks or paces. She is normal.
To say every dog that wins in conformation only wins by basically paying off the judge is a cheap shot.
Brutus' breeder is one of the most respected and best breeders in the United States, and she has a great rep in Brazil from what I understand. No, I'm not showing for conformation or breeding, that does not interest me.
And, I agree with Redyre, you have such a bitter tone. As a matter of fact what dogs do you own? How do you feel you have the expertise to tell everyone that their dogs suck? What qualifications do you have to tell every breed owner what their dogs conformation ability should be like? Do you judge every breed on this planet? Not everyone wants or is showing just for conformation. Brutus is going to be taking tracking classes does that make him a lesser dog in your estimation? Gee will I have to pay off the judge when we reach the point of competition? He and I are going to do it for fun. Yes I said fun. I think he will enjoy it, I don't have any animals for him to herd so I chose something else he will enjoy. BTW, Filas do have a great sense of smell.
Maybe you should do some research before giving your expert opinion and downgrading everyone and every dog on this forum.
One other thing, I do believe from Redyres post , she is a very loving and concerned breeder who cares about the Rottie breed. She has a right to be concerned with your comments.

Just re-read this. Your Rottie PACES??????? Hhhhmmmmm.

 

[JennSLK]

Gee, Jenn. I am sorry. I did not realize that you are one of the filthy rich who can afford thousands of dollars to show a Dobe! Of course being in Canada makes it much easier to accomplish than if you were in stiff AKC competition. I kind of picture every one being less than rich, such as myself.

What gave you the idea I was rich. For you information I live in Calgary. There are 3-5 shows a year here. I whont have to pay hotel since I live here. I have family in Red Deer (1.5hrs away) and there are 2-3 shows a year there. Then there is Edmonton, again 3-5 shows a year there. My parents live near edmonont. Again no hotel fees. The average show fees around here at show are $90-$150 for a 3 day show. I think most people can afford that. I work a full time job with a part time job on the side to pay for my dog stuff. I am 20, I live with my fiance and have since I was 18, so dont think of me as some spoiled rich kid who plays with mommy and daddy's money.

You are a stuck up self assured ******. Im sorry your royal higness that CKC shows arent a grand and great as your high and mighty AKC show. But I guess if you dont like it than of course it's crap since you are the all mighty.

Did you ever think that I am planning on a DUAL champion?????!!! I told you that!!! Yes it involves getting up at 3am and driving all night/day, but did you ever think that maybe some people think it's worth it?!!?!?!?! I am one of those people. But since your not, again we're not as good as you.

I am sure you will have a blast getting up at 3AM and driving hundreds of miles to a show, and camping out in your car. Showing it so delightful. Once upon a time I stayed with some dear friends who had Kerry Blue Terriers----in fact the top winning, producing Kerries in the history of the breed at that point in 1985. I went to the shows with them. It was hard, exhausting WORK. And naturally I have to be one of those who likes to sleep late! None of that when showing dogs! You learn to sleep standing up at ringside, heheheh.

YUP It's work. I have showed horses at spruce meadows in the 1.30m classes. OMG you wouldnt beleive how hard you have to work to get there, but you know what, some people enjoy it. Just because you dont like showing doesnt mean that no one else is allowed to.

No you dont care what I do, but you seem to keep trying to tell me what to do all the time.

So, let me get this strait. You not only know the top people in the dobe, rottie, and GSD worlds but now you know the top Kerry Blue terrier people as well. Well, your highness, please forgive me if I am insulting you.

I bow to your infanite wisdom on dog breeds.

 

[RedyreRottweilers]

No, I don't intend to hire a handler. My bitch is good enough I can do it myself. Plus the fact I have educated myself on how to properly present a dog over the years. I can compete with most of the pros.

We will get her majors. And we will get her Obedience titles too. Most of the time when I'm at dog shows, I'm having an absolute BALL yukking it up with my pals. Win or lose. They win, I grin and congratulate them, and I mean it. I win, same thing.

I will never take the DOG SHOW RING outside where it belongs and ruin ANY of the marvelous and enduring friendships I've made with some of the finest people one could ever want to meet.

Dog shows will always be a positive fun and education filled place where there is a smile on my face almost all day.

 

[CanadianK9]

You are a stuck up self assured ******. Im sorry your royal higness that CKC shows arent a grand and great as your high and mighty AKC show. But I guess if you dont like it than of course it's crap since you are the all mighty.

Well, your highness, please forgive me if I am insulting you.

I bow to your infanite wisdom on dog breeds.

*applause and whistles*

 

[JennSLK]

We will get her majors. And we will get her Obedience titles too. Most of the time when I'm at dog shows, I'm having an absolute BALL yukking it up with my pals. Win or lose. They win, I grin and congratulate them, and I mean it. I win, same thing.

I will never take the DOG SHOW RING outside where it belongs and ruin ANY of the marvelous and enduring friendships I've made with some of the finest people one could ever want to meet.

Dog shows will always be a positive fun and education filled place where there is a smile on my face almost all day

Thank you. I feel exactly the same way,

 

[Gwinnywillow]

Thank you. I feel exactly the same way,

I am using a short quote to save space. No Jenn, I am not high and mighty. Just an average person who showed dogs. And you yourself stated that to get a championship you only need one major, I believe?

And what is the schedule of points? (You are familiar with the schedule of points?) A dog can become a Can. Champioin in one weekend. That sounds pretty easy to me! People I knew would send their dogs up there for a weekend just so it would be a "dual" champion.

And I am sorry that you are jealous of me knowing people who were successes in showing dogs. The Kerries were owned and bred by George and Angie Mederos who had Betancourt kennels. Their Ch. Betancourt's Barnaby and Betancourt's Molly were top champion producers in the history of the breed back in 1985, I believe.

In another 25 years or so you might know some "biggies" too. I am sorry if I cannot tell my life history without it sounding to you like I am bragging. I state facts, you see bragging. Oh, let me add to my brags---the owner of the Top winning dog of my breed in this country for the last 5 years, just HAD to breed to one of my bitches! I was against it, but out of that breeding came the top dog of that breed in Canada! So I guess I am in a heck of a lot better position to brag if I want to then others. Sorry 'bout that!

I just look up the point schedule for the N.Y. Area, and it has really dropped in the last 20 years for several breeds. In Rotties, only 3 competing gives 1 point!!! Wow, what a difference. Same for Dobes. Only 17 for a 3 point major. Used to take something like 33!!!!!!