Nicer than usual pet shop story

[moxiegrl]

You're right you should'nt have spoken about this and thought that everyone was going to be all happy and agree with you. Seriously. I am just going to say what someone else said. I can't believe someone is on here liking and promoting puppies being sold at a pet store, simple as that.

OK...when I read the OP, the last thing I thought was she was supporting pet shops/puppy stores. She merely said it was nice to see the way they were treated there, COMPARED to other places. She didnt say she was going to buy one. Please dont jump down her throat for that. Hell, I'd be happier too if I saw a place like that. Puppies are going to be sold in stores whether I like it or not. I dont have to support it, but if I see a place thats better then most, whats wrong w/ saying its better then most????

Sigh, and oh boo hoo, and have fun. You just must not know how the real world really is. You'll find out soon. But cmon, you dont have to leave all whiny and sad. Be a grown up about it, like you've told others before! Remember?! That is really mature.

Umm...this statement was not grown up in any way shape or form. Sigh, and oh boo hoo, and have fun .

It still is a nicer story about a pet shop.

Exactly blue..thats all I thought when I read it.

 

[Buddy'sParents]

Hmmm.

While, I agree that it is nice to hear a good pet store story, it still is not acceptable in my view. In my humble opinion, no reputable, solid breeder would give up their pups to be sold in a pet store. But again, just my opinion.

And, for the record, no one should think that posting such a controversial topic in an attempted "good light" will change anyone's views on pet stores. We're all individuals here.

Were some people immature? Yes. That always happens, unfortunately. However, it is best to look past those that can not handle topics such as these.

Others brought up very good points and expressed their opinions, which is their right to do so in a politely mannered way. Props to those who did.

And, Delisay, I commend you on your attempt to lighten an otherwise heavy topic on a dog forum with a few good points.

Please just remember not all are going to see it through your eyes.

 

[Boemy]

It sounds like that pet store's great compared to most.

HOWEVER.

No good breeder would put their puppy in a pet store. Period.

Imagine someone comes in. They want a husky puppy. The pet store employee recommends against it because they don't go for walks and have no backyard. "Tough," the customer says. "I want a husky and you'd better sell one to me." I am fairly sure it would be ILLEGAL for the pet store to refuse to sell them a puppy. That would be seen as discrimination; you can't sell a product to some customers and not to others.

Also, people buying from pet shops are generally impulse buyers. BAD BAD BAD.

That's why a reputable breeder would never sell to a pet shop.

 

[Delisay]

Just out of interest - and I mean this as a sincere question so please read it in a 'neutral' tone:

What do you personally believe that disreputable breeders should do with their puppies?? Given that as far as we can see into the future dogs will continue to be bred either accidentally, or on purpose but with little forethought, by some people ... what should then happen to those animals??

Del.

 

[blue]

I am fairly sure it would be ILLEGAL for the pet store to refuse to sell them a puppy. That would be seen as discrimination; you can't sell a product to some customers and not to others.

You have never seen a store with a sign "We reserve the Right to refuse service to Anybody"?

 

[tessa_s212]

I'm dissapointed in many Chaz members. I'm sorry for some of their attitudes and words towards you, Delisay.

Delisay, though I do disagree with petstores, it is nice to at least see a petstore trying. No matter how hard we try, there will always be those darn BYBs. And if a petstore is willing to actually treat those BYB puppies with some respect, than GOOD for them!

 

[dogsarebetter]

i didnt read the last couple of pages of the post, i just want to say.

no matter what, and breeder who sells to a petstore is bad! BAD BAD

 

[Delisay]

(Buddy, Blue, Tessa... Thanks guys!!! Until you all came along I was considering taking Blue's advice - Quando omni flunkus moritati. D. )

 

[yoko]

i don't support pet stores that sell puppies just saying that right off.

but i will admit that seeing stores that are atleast TRYING is a good thing. i've never heard of one that actually takes the animals home at night and socializes them. i'm not saying that the petstore is in the right by selling them, but i am saying that they are in the right for caring for the dogs like that.

 

[Boemy]

You have never seen a store with a sign "We reserve the Right to refuse service to Anybody"?

Quote from a CA legal help page:

Can a business refuse service to anyone?

No. California law makes it illegal for a business to refuse service to anybody. Although many businesses hang signs which say, "We reserve the right to refuse service to anybody," the signs are not legal. Many times these signs are a way for a business to discriminate. Simply put, it is illegal.

I'm sure this is true in the majority of states, possibly in all of them.

 

[jess2416]

nvr mind...I'm being pissy again ...sorry

 

[Boemy]

Just out of interest - and I mean this as a sincere question so please read it in a 'neutral' tone:

What do you personally believe that disreputable breeders should do with their puppies?? Given that as far as we can see into the future dogs will continue to be bred either accidentally, or on purpose but with little forethought, by some people ... what should then happen to those animals??

Del.

Disreputable breeders shouldn't breed puppies. Obviously, they still will. The more people support them by buying puppies from them, the more likely they are to continue breeding.

If someone wants to give one of those dogs a great home, no problem; go to a rescue organization or an animal shelter. That's where a lot of those puppy mill / backyard bred dogs end up. The adoption fee will go to people who are helping these dogs, not towards someone with $$$ in their eyes.

Now, if someone has an "oops" litter as opposed to purposely breeding for $$$ or because "my dog is so cute and the world needs more cute dogs", then they should raise the puppies until 12 weeks, get them their shots, get them wormed, draw up spay/neuter contracts (or better yet, spay and neuter the pups before finding them homes), and find them good homes. They should get the mother spayed as soon as possible. (I believe they have to wait until the puppies are weaned off milk.)

They should charge a small adoption fee for the pups, as people who get free dogs often regard them as having no value (or do horrible things to them like using them as fighting dog bait, using them for medical research, etc.) They should also screen potential puppy owners with as much care as a show breeder would to ensure their puppies get great homes.

 

[IliamnasQuest]

Words by Delisay:

"In short, it's nice to see a relatively large business doing such a good job in the pet market niche."

"..but there are good people out there who have an occasional litter, from healthy dogs, take good and responsible care of them, and because they are not doing it for the money, they pass them on to the nice people at their local pet store for half of the sum that they would get if they sold them themselves"

"Every animal, everywhere, is traded - bought and sold in some way. What in heaven's name difference could it make if the premises are a cosy petstore or someone's kitchen? "

"Honestly, some of you lot are just the most miserable, negative... Suck the joy out of simple things like it's snake venom. "

And some of you wonder why some of us thought she supported the concept of selling to a pet store? She spelled out exactly why backyard breeders should sell to a pet store! In this day and age, we should all collectively be working against the concept, not praising them.

Maybe this store is better than most, but that does NOT MAKE IT RIGHT! She is defending them against people saying "this is wrong" and then calling those who are against selling to a pet store "miserable and negative". I'm just amazed that there are others defending her .. *shaking my head* .. this surely tells me who supports the good of the dog and who doesn't.

I'm thoroughly disgusted right now.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska

 

[Chul3l3ies1126]

Imagine someone comes in. They want a husky puppy. The pet store employee recommends against it because they don't go for walks and have no backyard. "Tough," the customer says. "I want a husky and you'd better sell one to me." I am fairly sure it would be ILLEGAL for the pet store to refuse to sell them a puppy. That would be seen as discrimination; you can't sell a product to some customers and not to others.

Also, people buying from pet shops are generally impulse buyers. BAD BAD BAD.

That's why a reputable breeder would never sell to a pet shop.

Ok the thing you say at the top Boemy, about how the person doesnt care but still wants the animal, well this happened one day at work but not with a dog. Two teens come in, guy and girl, and they say they want one of our rats. These rats come from a good family that sells them as pets. They are certain breeds etc. Well they said ok hang on let me get something else, and the bring back one of those hamster balls!!! They were like we're going to let our two cats beat him around in there and then take him out so they can kill him.!!! WHAT!!! I freaked and grabbed the rat away. I refused to sell it. They got all pissed and called my manager, he came up there with me but told them that if they wanted to torture and kill an animal from his store, then he doesnt want or need their buisness. GO elsewhere. Well they called the owner of the store and he said the same thing. Some people are just so disgusting.

 

[Chul3l3ies1126]

Maybe this store is better than most, but that does NOT MAKE IT RIGHT! She is defending them against people saying "this is wrong" and then calling those who are against selling to a pet store "miserable and negative". I'm just amazed that there are others defending her .. *shaking my head* .. this surely tells me who supports the good of the dog and who doesn't.

I'm thoroughly disgusted right now.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska

Agree with you the whole way around.

 

[Boemy]

Ok the thing you say at the top Boemy, about how the person doesnt care but still wants the animal, well this happened one day at work but not with a dog. Two teens come in, guy and girl, and they say they want one of our rats. These rats come from a good family that sells them as pets. They are certain breeds etc. Well they said ok hang on let me get something else, and the bring back one of those hamster balls!!! They were like we're going to let our two cats beat him around in there and then take him out so they can kill him.!!! WHAT!!! I freaked and grabbed the rat away. I refused to sell it. They got all pissed and called my manager, he came up there with me but told them that if they wanted to torture and kill an animal from his store, then he doesnt want or need their buisness. GO elsewhere. Well they called the owner of the store and he said the same thing. Some people are just so disgusting.

How appalling!! The worst thing is if they hadn't been brazen enough to say that, who would've known?

 

[blue]

Quote from a CA legal help page:



I'm sure this is true in the majority of states, possibly in all of them.

I have refused service of goods and actual services, I have had services refused to me.

A store or its employees should have the right to decide who to or not to serve on private property.

 

[tessa_s212]

this surely tells me who supports the good of the dog and who doesn't.

I'm thoroughly disgusted right now.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska

Mel, I respect you very much, but this statement is out of line. Who are you to say who and who doesn't support "the good of the dog"? You are not me or these other people, and you do not own and control my or their feelings. You cannot tell me whether or not I am a person that cares about dogs or not.

You may be disgusted with our holding the opinions that we do, but we are disgusted with your judgemental and condescending tone.

 

[Delisay]

I found some facts and figures...

(- Couldn't find anything about trading law, but I would expect the seller to have some rights to make a professional judgement, and/or to determine what happens on their own property.)

- 98%+ of animals in AU are not purchased from pet stores. That's less than 2%. It's not big business.

- The majority - 70-75% - of dogs in shelters were bought direct from breeders, or were home bred, and are not from pet shops.

- Puppy mills of the type found in the US do exist in AU, but here laws are clearer and make it easier (still challenging) to shut them down, fine them, and require certain standards. The situation in the US is understood to be very much worse.

- The RSPCA (in AU) says that care of animals in pet shops has greatly improved due to a good industry code of practice, self-regulation and continual inspections by animal lovers.

- Private breeders are not subject to a code of practice (unless voluntarily registered with a pedigree organisation), nor to inspections, and therefore operate freely without protection for the public.

- The bulk of the problem is considered to be an uneducated public who make poor purchasing/breeding decision. Removing their responsibility by blaming the person who sold them the dog (which 98% of the time is not a pet store) only helps validate their already lame excuses for dumping their pet.

Also, people commonly don't realise that most shelters make money - at least enough for the owners to be salaried, so they function as tax-free businesses. That doesn't mean they are not also honorably motivated, but it reduces the difference from pet shops which also home animals but have to pay taxes and wages as well.


Boemy, what I meant by that question is what in reality would you suggest is a practical way to manage those animals - rather than idealistically (which we know). The accidental/casual breeders are clearly not inclined to do all of those things that you said, therefore, how do you propose that it could work instead?
(Actually, based on the above data this whole question becomes less relevant, because now I know that these dogs either end up in the pound or in loving homes 98% of the time, and very, very rarely in pet stores. So it's not as if the pet stores were ever a significant outlet for these breeders afterall.)

Thanks,
Del.

 

[Boemy]

Boemy, what I meant by that question is what in reality would you suggest is a practical way to manage those animals - rather than idealistically (which we know). The accidental/casual breeders are clearly not inclined to do all of those things that you said, therefore, how do you propose that it could work instead?

You can't. It's like trying to prevent people from stealing . . . You can take steps to lessen the amount of stealing, but you can never totally stop it. Giving irresponsible people easy outlets to dump their puppies while making money is not going to make them any more responsible.

It's great that Aussie pet stores are of higher quality than US ones, but that doesn't make them good. It makes them less bad. They're still selling puppies to impulse buyers who in some cases are buying them as surprise gifts (something a reputable breeder would never go for.) I would say if a pet shop wanted to act responsibly, they should team up with rescue groups or local shelters the way PetSmart and PetCo do. Pet stores mainly make their money off pet SUPPLIES, not animals. They could still sell the supplies and turn a profit. Meanwhile, the animal shelters would get the money which would allow them to help more animals.

Private breeders are not subject to a code of practice (unless voluntarily registered with a pedigree organisation), nor to inspections, and therefore operate freely without protection for the public.

Yes indeed. The inevitable backyard breeders. Many private breeders are terrible and unethical. That's why people need to be so careful in choosing one. A good breeder, however, is worth their weight in gold.

Edit: If you're asking how we can best help the PUPPIES of BYBs, not the BYBs themselves, I would say the best way is to support the animal shelters, as that's where unwanted dogs end up, no matter what their origin. I would never support a BYB, either by buying a dog directly from them or by buying from a pet shop that gives them a percent of the profits. Instead of buying a $500 puppy from a pet shop, walk out of there and adopt a dog for $50 and donate $450 to the animal shelter.