Nibbling dog

shepluvr

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#1
Does anyone have any ideas on how to stop a70lb shepherd from mouthing??

He wants to play 24/7, but he tries to get you to play by nibbling. Hands, legs, feet, whatever he is closest to. I have even had him get me in the rear a few times!:eek: I have told him no, or made the gutteral AHHH! But that stops him only temporarily, until the next moment he wants to play. He does this same behavior with my older dog (or any other dog for that matter) and also my cat. I try to excercise him as much as I can (I know part of it must be excess energy) but even when I play with him outside it stimulates him to nibble more. I know he is not being "vicious" but others may not understand that from a 70lb GSD! He just turned 1 in September. Any ideas would be appreciated.
 

Zen Fox

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#2
I have the same problem with my mom's golden retreiver.

Its normal for dogs to nip each other. It's their way of playing and it's fine, unless play becomes mean.

Continue to yell out in pain when he bites you. If he persists, tell him no in a firm voice. Ignoring him may not be affective because he'll continue to nip you to get attention, so put him in a cage when he's biting you.
 

Rubylove

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#3
Zen Fox said:
I have the same problem with my mom's golden retreiver.

Its normal for dogs to nip each other. It's their way of playing and it's fine, unless play becomes mean.

Continue to yell out in pain when he bites you. If he persists, tell him no in a firm voice. Ignoring him may not be affective because he'll continue to nip you to get attention, so put him in a cage when he's biting you.
The yelp when being bitten is a pretty effective remedy....that's how interacting puppies would respond. However, being nearly a year old, you may have to try some other things as well.

Shepherds have a VERY long puppyhood, and can continue with puppy-like behaviours for around 2 and a half years. But they are big, strong powerful dogs and a playful mouthy nip will hurt.

It's a dominance behaviour in a dog his age. What are the rest of his behaviours like? Does he jump up, go through doors before you, pull on his leash, etc?

Shepherds are working dogs. They are also closely related to wolves and show strong pack behaviours. They are highly intelligent, and to be truly happy need a job in life. Is he neutered, btw, and also, what is his level of training like? How much time does he have with you and what kinds of things does he have to occupy his extremely clever and curious mind?
 

shepluvr

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#4
I have been working on his jumping, he has almost stopped jumping on us (family) but can barely restrain himself when others come to the house. He gets so excited and immediately wants to play. He is neutered, has been since 3 mos old (he was adopted from shelter). I admit he does not have the same amount of time with me since I had my daughter (she is 4months old now and I have a 4 yr old son. I do agree that he is showing some dominance, he does try to go through the door before us, although I have not been allowing it. I also "Alpha roll" roll him which he submits to pretty quickly. The other problem is how do I establish my son's dominance over him? Right now he treats him like another puppy and grabs at his heels. He has only basic training (which needs work). I know that a lot of this is my fault since I haven't been able to work with him. Any suggestions to keep him occupied would be welcome cause i am sure he is bored watching me take care of the baby. Its much more fun to chase the cat! (which we stop him from doing, but again it only lasts until the next time)
HELP!:confused:
 
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Rubylove

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#5
Ok. There's a few problems here. Firstly you need to stop the alpha roll immediately. This is only my opinion, and it differs from some people here, but I truly believe that path leads to disaster. You should NEVER physically force dominance on your dog. Especially not on a dog that could pin you down and eat you with barely an effort involved!!! There are so many better ways to enforce your position as leader than that.

(Oh dear - the dogs are up to something...I'll be back in a minute!! ... lol)

Ok! I'm back - they were eating the cat litter AGAIN...ugggghhhhhh...:p

Ok, where was I? Yes, the alpha roll. BAD idea. The only time I have ever seen a physical display of dominance be appropriate was a with a woman who raises wolf pups in a sanctuary. The dominance she established was physical as well as psychological, however I didn't even see HER use the so-called `alpha roll'. With a big strong dog like a GSD, you need to have absolute assurance with your dominant position. He will allow you to roll him because you are his owner, but it may well be that the resentment and confusion that the roll creates in him will be taken out on someone else, God forbid one of your children, or a complete stranger. So no more of that, promise? ;)

Now, as to his basic training. You have a baby, and I understand that you are absorbed and exhausted, however, you have a dog that NEEDS to be stimulated, otherwise he will be destructive and aggressive, which you don't want around your children. You need only spend five minutes twice a day with him in training. It will make the world of difference. He's a year old so it may take a little longer to teach him what otherwise might only take a few sessions, but as I said they are highly intelligent and he will learn quickly. I recommend clicker-training - it's something even young children can teach, and it is quick and highly effective. Here's a link for more information: www.clickertraining.com or www.clickerlessons.com

I have a few questions for you. How have you been working on his jumping up? What methods have you used? Do you ask him to sit before you feed him? How many walks does he get, how long and what type? What sorts of toys does he have?

You need to establish your dominance here, and in a psychological not physical way. It is easy to do, once you know how. Your dog thinks he is boss. He needs to learn that he is not, and it will take stress and responsibility away from him, and allow him to just be a puppy. I'll wait until I hear from you again with the answers to those questions before elaborating more ;)

PS - This is a little personal, and I apologise in advance, but do you have a partner who can help you with the pup?
 
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shepluvr

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#6
I have a few questions for you. How have you been working on his jumping up? What methods have you used? Do you ask him to sit before you feed him? How many walks does he get said:
I use leash correction (for the jumping)when we answer the door. He is doing better in this area but more work is definately needed.
When he eats I make him sit and I give him the command to wait. I do not allow him to eat until I give the "ok" command.
Weather and children permitting, he gets one long walk a day, and/or 2-3 10 minute runs in the yard (on a good day he gets both) chasing a ball or running with the other dog. (the other dog is much older so he really doesn't feel like this often)
His favorite toys are Nylabones and balls. Actually he will chase anything thrown. (I think he has a very strong prey drive)
No need to appologize:)
I am married, but my husband works a lot of hours so it is mostly me and the kids, (furkids included) home. Also, I am the "animal person" in the house. My husband tolerates them but has not really developed a real relationship with them. He never had dogs until he married me. I on the other hand grew up with dogs my entire life. I have always had and trained dogs (all shepherds or shep mixes) and have never encountered this problem. I know that the biggest reason is the time I have (or rather the lack of time) spent with him. I don't blame him in the slightest. I need to find a way to work with him more.
I have been doing the "Alpha roll" on him since he was a pup, but if you think I should stop consider it done. *promise*;)
 

Rubylove

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#7
OK. Making a start.

LOL! I just think that once you have the proper pecking order established you won't ever NEED to roll him again....honest!

Now, I want you to try something for me for three full days. Just one thing, and one thing only to start with. Everyone in your family must cooperate - I cannot stress that strongly enough. Your husband, yourself and your son MUST be as one on this - you will be amazed at the results.

Your dog (what is his name, by the way?) thinks he is alpha dog. He thinks this because he has never been taught any other way. Don't worry - it's not your `fault' as such, because what is natural to us just is not natural for dogs. Its so easy to forget that they can't be taught the way you would expect humans to understand. I am of the strong belief that by addressing other problems that you have with this dog, the nibbling problem will take care of itself.

So, the first thing to address is the jumping up. Firstly, get rid of the leash. It ain't working, and it's not going to work. So, that goes.

Jumping up is a common and solvable problem. When you leave the dog's presence for any reason, whether it's leaving the room or leaving the house, he feels as if his charge is going away, somewhere he can't control you. Because he thinks that he is alpha dog, he views you somewhat as his child, or the subordinate in the pack. In the wild, the alpha dog eats first, so the fact that you bring his food to him doesn't make him think you're his leader, but in fact the other way round! (But we'll get to that later... :D ). Also, he has no way of knowing whether you will be gone for two minutes or gone for good - he doesn't know if you're EVER coming back! This is very stressful for him, his baby is leaving, and he doesn't know where, and he's being left behind.

So, when you come back, he jumps up on you (or your husband or your son) to re-establish his position as leader of your pack. He doesn't get anxious because he misses you, he gets anxious because he's worried about you! This behaviour is reinforced, again, in a dog like a shepherd because they are SO protective of their packs.

In order to establish your authority, and the authority of the members in your family, you MUST NOT ACKNOWLEDGE his attempts to subordinate you upon your return - either from another room or from being out somewhere. This is VITAL to basic alpha status.

Again, in the wild, when the alpha dog returns to the pack, the other pack members crowd around the dog, lick his face, whine, fawn and submit. The alpha dog just stands there - doesn't acknowledge, doesn't make eye contact, just accepts quietly their obeisance. You must do this too.

When you first walk in the room with your dog, NO eye contact. NO hello. NO petting. NO smiling. NO acknowledgement whatsoever. This is very nearly impossible if you are used to walking in the door and making a big fuss over your dog. But every time you do that he views you more and more as a subordinate returning to his dominion. By not acknowledging him in any way, shape or form, you establish your right as leader to go where you wish, and you do not give in to his attempts to dominate.

Dogs will react differently to this. Some will persist, jumping and jumping and whining and getting very agitated. Others will catch on after just a couple of jumps. I don't know where yours will fit in but I suspect the former :D It doesn't matter what he does you MUST NOT pay attention to him AT ALL. That will ruin your chances. You have to remember that to your dog, any attention is attention. Saying `no' or `stop it' or glaring at him or yelling or shrieking - any of those things is paying attention, which to him, equals paying homage - exactly what you DON'T want.

Now, it doesn't matter how hard they try, as long as you keep ignoring, eventually your dog will slink off by himself to digest what has just happened. This part is the key. It is VERY important to leave exactly five minutes for him to do this. Go about your life. Make a cup of tea. Have a snack. Go check on the baby. Do whatever you have to do but LEAVE HIM ALONE. After the five minutes is up call him to you - do NOT go to him - and greet him. Gently stroke his head and neck, speak softly and calmly, and do not get excited. If he starts to jump up again, the ignoring starts again instantly. Stand up, turn your back, and walk away. Give him the five minutes again once he settles down.

Now. You have to repeat this exercise every single time you come into contact with your dog after an absence. It is difficult. No one wants to ignore their dog. But in fact, you are not ignoring him, you are just not paying homage to him. You are behaving in a way he finally understands, and so you are not `hurting' his feelings, which it's very easy to feel like you're doing.

After a day or two (sometimes less, sometimes more) if you do this EVERY time you see him - and the other members of your family, too - his jumping up will stop. He will understand that it gets him nowhere, and more importantly, he will see you as in control. Submissive pack dogs do not challenge their leader unless for very good reason. You need to continue to do this for two or three weeks - long after he has stopped jumping up - to consolidate your position. After this, you will be able to say hello when you come in, but still, don't make a fuss, because it'll just confuse him.

It sounds to easy to be true? Well, trust me, it is. If you stick to exactly what I have outlined, your jumping problem (with you - guests we will go into later) will be over, and you can start looking forward to the other problems being solved, too. He will be seeing you in a new light.

So, give this a try, and see how you go. And good luck in your first step towards becoming the alpha of your house! :)
 

shepluvr

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#8
Makes sense...(his name is Oso by the way) I will have my son and husband do this...although my husband already ignores him for the most part. Its funny....He doesn't do anything with him but feed him popcorn if he has it.(it has gotten to the point that all Oso has to do is hear the popcorn popping and he materializes at my husbands side!) Any other time he just tells him to go away. But he enjoys their "popcorn time." My husband feels like Oso is a pest because he is always in the way. Hobbit (our older dog) is ok in his book because you never know he is around. *sigh* I hope we can work on Oso so that my husband can see what great dogs Shepherds are.( I have always owned them he never had any dog). He brought home a lab he found the other night and that dog was about the same age and so CALM. My Husband kept saying,"why can't you behave like that!" It hurt my feelings a little.*snif*
But anyway, we will try what you said and see how things go.
 

Doberluv

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#9
Great advice from Rubylove.

To put some of my thoughts in a nutshell. You need to stop resonding to him when he is instigating anything. You need to be the one to give him commands which you teach him and instigate games or affection. You decide when he gets a toy or treats or anything. You act....he responds. Don't respond to everything he wants.

Unwanted behavior.....don't give or let him get (on his own) a payoff. Reward good behavior. Distract from bad behavior....give an alternative behavior which he can be rewarded for.

Obedience practice and good exercise every day.

Those are the main things which stand out in my mind.
 

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