New Member!

[BleuButterfly]

Hi everyone,

I love all dogs, from well bred purebreds to shelter dogs, I love them all. My greatest love, however, is Papillons. I LOVE this breed, and will always have one (or more. ) My older is a 4 yr old male sable Papillon named Cujo. Cujo is truly a special dog. Because of him, I have fallen for Papillons and dogs in general. I show in conformation, and volunteer at my local animal shelter twice weekly. **See it is possible to do both showing and rescue.

I got Cujo in '05, and went to my first dog show in '06. In October '07 I began searching for my first show puppy. I researched TONS about proper health testing (CERF, CHIC, OFA..etc), observed dogs at shows, emailed reputable breeders, and learned pedigrees. I was VERY picky. lol. I finally picked a very nice breeder with healthy dogs, many ch's, and multiple DOM (dam of merits), DOD (dam of distinctions), SOM (sire of merits), and SOD (sire of destinctions). My breeder is a longtime member of the PCA (Papillon Club Of America), and has been in paps for over 30 years. Simply put, she is well respected in the show world.

I waited a year for River's breeding, then on May 1st of '09 my sweet, sweet River came home to me. It took me two years to find River, and I am SO glad I took my time. The wait was definately worth it.

Didn't mean to write a novel. I have been looking for a really good dog forum.. This one seems good so far.

 

[smkie]

You will be in good company here. Welcome to Chazhound.

 

[Laurelin]

I would absolutely LOVE to see pics of your two! Papillons are my love too, I have 5 (well 2 are mine, 3 are family dogs) of my own. They are just the best breed. I can't get enough of them.

 

[Zoom]

You've certainly come to the right place! Most of us are Pap fanciers, even if it's from afar and through other's dogs. :lol-sign:

Many of us are involved in showing/breeding/rescue all at the same time as well.

 

[xpaeanx]

Welcome!

And just so you're aware, it's part of the forum rules that anyone who joins with papillons MUST post LOTS of pics!!!

 

[BleuButterfly]

Lol. Papillons are THE best breed. I will get pics of my two up soon..

I notice that a lot of people that dont like toy dogs in general, like Papillons. On one of the posts on here, asking what your fave breeds are from each group, MOST people put Papillon as their favorite toy.. I find that very interesting..

& thank you all for the welcomes.

 

[Laurelin]

I'm working on brainwashing them.

 

[BleuButterfly]

Very nice, Laurelin! Lol. Though it is kind of odd though, on other dog forums most non toy people like Papillons. Like I have seen where someone owns mastiff/bully types, and then they fall for Papillons.. When it looks like this person would prefer a pug?..

Papillons are...
*One of the best breeds (all breed) for obedience and agility
*people pleasers, LOVES their owners
*easy grooming, but gorgeous coats
*spaniel charm : Papillons are, of course, the smallest of the spaniels.
*Healthy
*and not to mention gorgeous!

All paps are not hugely energetic. However, I have seen some people describe paps as having the inteligence of a BC, and the trainabilty of a Sheltie.

Papillons are close cousins of the Cavalier, and the more rare English Toy Spaniel. Cavaliers have become very popular. Unfortunately, they have many health problems, and some don't live very long. It really is a shame.

Paps on the other hand are generally healthy, with the exception of eye problems, patella problems and heart problems. Though, paps live to be around 15 + (well bred paps of course. ). The oldest on record was around 27, I do believe..

I always think about it this way: Papillons are the happy, go lucky, energetic, people lovers, in your face, and always licking. Cavaliers are the sweet spaniels, loves people, tails always wagging, lower key dogs. English Toys are shy, but sweet, lower key, and quiet. English Toys remind me of Japanese Chin, in regards to look and temperment.


Oh my, I may be fueling the brainwashing fire. :rofl1:

 

[MandyPug]

May i pick your butterfly dog brains here for a moment pap fans?

How do well do you figure a pap and a 15lb leaner more energetic pug would coexist?

I'm moving out in a few years and am thinking about adding to my pack since my dog has never been without other dogs in the house. I've been bitten by the pap bug for sure.

 

[BleuButterfly]

I think it could work. You may want to look into a bigger pap (11 inches or so) to go along with your Pug. Papillons can be fragile. My River is about 9 inches tall and weighs about 3 1/2 pounds but she is still maturing. She is within the breed standard. River is very fine boned and dainty. She is very submissive to bigger dogs. My sister has Chinese Cresteds, and they are very different from paps in so many ways. The Cresteds love playing rough, dont mind bigger dogs, and not to mention food obsessed. My Papillons are almost the oppsite to the Cresteds. They are spaniel like, as in soft and gentle. Whereas the Cresteds are more terrier like. My paps love playing in their own little way. It isn't rough play like the Cresteds, more like a gentle, loving way (if that makes sense. lol). Papillons are also very picky when it comes to food. Putting weight on them is difficult. Unlike the Cresteds which are food-aholics! lol

Soo glad I found this forum!

 

[MandyPug]

I think it could work. You may want to look into a bigger pap (11 inches or so) to go along with your Pug. Papillons can be fragile. My River is about 9 inches tall and weighs about 3 1/2 pounds but she is still maturing. She is within the breed standard. River is very fine boned and dainty. She is very submissive to bigger dogs. My sister has Chinese Cresteds, and they are very different from paps in so many ways. The Cresteds love playing rough, dont mind bigger dogs, and not to mention food obsessed. My Papillons are almost the oppsite to the Cresteds. They are spaniel like, as in soft and gentle. Whereas the Cresteds are more terrier like. My paps love playing in their own little way. It isn't rough play like the Cresteds, more like a gentle, loving way (if that makes sense. lol). Papillons are also very picky when it comes to food. Putting weight on them is difficult. Unlike the Cresteds which are food-aholics! lol

Soo glad I found this forum!

How do Paps compare to Chihuahuas temperament, playfullness, and fragility wise? Pretty much all izzie's friends are relatively small dogs; a couple yorkies, 3 chihuahuas (ranging 3-7lbs), and cavalier pup.

 

[BleuButterfly]

I haven't really met any well bred Chi's, so my experience is limited there. The ones I have seen were terrier like, bossy, kind of snobbish, and loved people once they get to know them. Papillons seem more outgoing.

I dont know how fragile Chi's are, but they seem to be generally healthy. They live a very long time.

If Izzie's plamates are in the 3-7 pound range then a pap should be fine.

 

[Zoom]

Cavs can be a fairly long lived breed, it's all about finding a breeder that concentrates on that as part of their program. I was looking at getting a Cav pup from a breeder back in Kansas a few years ago and most of their Cavs made it to 12, with some edging towards 14. The heart defects can be avoided and weeded out of lines with VERY diligent work and research.

 

[BleuButterfly]

Zoom, I would LOVE a Cavalier one day. Which breeder are speaking of?

The health issue was what held me back..

 

[Laurelin]

All paps are not hugely energetic. However, I have seen some people describe paps as having the inteligence of a BC, and the trainabilty of a Sheltie.

Hmm, based on my experience paps are usually high energy and more trainable than a sheltie. I find them much easier to work with and much more active than my shelties were. The high energy isn't so bad because of their size (they can run it off inside without wrecking your house) but other than Rose, mine are all up there in energy. They're not as energetic as BCs but they have a similar intelligence and intuitiveness that along with their athleticism is why they're many times called the toy version of the border collie. I love both breeds so much because of the similarities there. Shelties are usually ranked higher than papillons on intelligence test but in my experience I've found my papillons to just blow the shelties out of the water.

May i pick your butterfly dog brains here for a moment pap fans?

How do well do you figure a pap and a 15lb leaner more energetic pug would coexist?

I'm moving out in a few years and am thinking about adding to my pack since my dog has never been without other dogs in the house. I've been bitten by the pap bug for sure.

They'd most likely get along great! I know someone on another forum that has pugs and paps no problem and I've had paps with dogs up to near 30 lbs. I plan on having a BC next and I know a ton of people with paps and herding breeds and its fine. I'd recommend a larger pap, 7+ lbs and you should be good. They're a lot sturdier than they look.

 

[Laurelin]

How do Paps compare to Chihuahuas temperament, playfullness, and fragility wise? Pretty much all izzie's friends are relatively small dogs; a couple yorkies, 3 chihuahuas (ranging 3-7lbs), and cavalier pup.

They're quite different from chis. Paps are a spaniel breed mostly with what is likely some spitz thrown in (volpino and old style pomeranians based on my research). The two breeds are not at all related.

Just physically the papillon is lankier and usually larger. Chis range from 2-6 lbs in standard and paps in standard are typically 6-10 lbs. Chis are stockier and paps thinner built. I would say I'd think a large pap would be much sturdier than a small chi. Mia is tiny though but she still can play with big dogs (supervised of course) and has dive bombed off some high walls with no injury. She did jump into a concrete wall and limped a while but that was it. She's 5 lbs, so small for a pap but large for a chi. She should mature into about 6 lbs. Mine are all kind of small, Summer is 11 inches but only 7.5 lbs. Beau is the biggest at 7.6 lbs and he's all muscle.

Temperament, you could ask the chi people some but chis seem less high energy than paps. They also seem to be more apt to be one person dogs. My experience with paps is most (not all) are very friendly to everyone. Mia and Rose are a bit standoffish with people at first but they get to know people and are pretty equally snuggly with all the people they like. Chis seem a bit terrierish in temperament to me. Paps really are the least spaniely of the spaniels. They're more athletic than the other toy spaniels, more energy, a bit sharper in temperament, a bit of an independent streak... probably due to the touch of spitz in there.

I would just say in general paps are high energy, athletic, very people oriented little dogs. They do vary a bit between dogs especially in the way of energy and drive. I have Mia who is just as bad (good?) as a border collie in energy, intelligence, and drive and then Rose who is content to have a small 30 minute romp and be a lapdog the rest of the day. Mine are the definition of velcro, they're highly social both with other dogs (though not always dogs they don't know- dog reactivity is pretty common among the ones I know) and people. They need some good outdoor exercise daily and some good training sessions to be really happy imo. Mine adore agility, I wish I could get back into that, they're fantastic at it. They are high energy but at the same time great cuddly little dogs too. The biggest thing is occupying their mind. The big issue I see on my pap lists and my other board (it's overrun with papillons for some reason) is possessiveness which is just due to small dog syndrome and not being given guidelines. Papillons will walk all over an owner that lets them. They are smart and if it works once, they remember. The other issue I see is just keeping them occupied. Even the lower energy ones have very active minds and if bored, they get very creative. For such small dogs, they can get into a LOT of trouble. It's not uncommon to hear of them being very destructive and high maintenance as pups. I won't lie, Mia has been a real challenge as was Nard and Beau as puppies. Nard and Beau matured very nice into well behaved, wonderful adults, and Mia is getting there. Still at 8 months I have to stay on top of Mia or else something bad WILL happen. :lol-sign:

ETA: Playfulness? Mine love to play with other dogs and people. The boys are into the high contact type play and sound like tasmanian devils duking it out. When the entire pack get to playing, it's mostly about the zoomies and running everywhere like crazy. All but Summer love toys and fetch too.

Sorry for the novel. lol

 

[MandyPug]

Thanks guys! That's pretty much what i've gleaned from the research i've done. I'm looking into a rescue that seems to get a few paps in every once in a while, only issue is they're on the coast so i'd either have to drive out 8 hours to get them or fly out and fly back with them (that is IF they'd even adopt to someone in a different province). I've also been looking into breeders and stuff and there aren't many up here, one has a couple adult females for sale (and I'm a definite female person).

This is the one i favour (is she a phalene maybe or is that a whole separate breed?)
Apsara Papillons - G Litter Dancers

And then this one is a show dog they're willing to sell but i don't think i want to get into showing just yet with any breed (i'm far too busy)
Apsara Papillons - I Litter Dancers


Anyways there's no rush in it, and i'd rather get an adult or older puppy anyways as they'd be brought into my current house first which includes 3 pugs before being moved to an apartment or house somewhere else.

 

[Laurelin]

Apsara Papillons - G Litter Dancers[/url]

Phalenes and papillons are the same dog, just different ears. They are shown in the US and Canada (and some other countries) together and they can both appear in the same litter. FCI separates them into two breeds, I'm not sure why. But that dog doesn't look like a phalene to me. She looks like an inbetweener as her earset doesn't appear correct for a true phalene. It could just be age or the picture though.

Your plan sounds a lot like mine when I got Mia, but I ended up with a younger puppy than I'd planned. lol she's worth it but man is she work some days.

 

[BleuButterfly]

Be aware of soft ear Papillons. Some breeders pass their soft ear paps as Phalenes.The ears of Phalenes should be completely down. Here are two very good examples of Phalenes:

Papillon Club of America's Historical Website

Award Of Merit #1 went to Ch BIS BISS Arkeno's Ears To You. I also really like the winner of Best Phalene, Crown Wildway's French Lieutenant.

I haven't really heard of Aspara.. Ivey Divey Dancer is SO cute.

Good luck! If you need anything else just ask us. The pap lovers of Chaz would be glad to help.

 

[MandyPug]

Be aware of soft ear Papillons. Some breeders pass their soft ear paps as Phalenes.The ears of Phalenes should be completely down. Here are two very good examples of Phalenes:

Papillon Club of America's Historical Website

Award Of Merit #1 went to Ch BIS BISS Arkeno's Ears To You. I also really like the winner of Best Phalene, Crown Wildway's French Lieutenant.

I haven't really heard of Aspara.. Ivey Divey Dancer is SO cute.

Good luck! If you need anything else just ask us. The pap lovers of Chaz would be glad to help.

Yeah they weren't advertising as a Phalene it was just a wonder of mine lol, i'm a pug person and only recently looked into paps.

You might not of heard of them coz i'm in Canada and i think they're only showing within Canada at the moment.

Thanks for the help guys.