new member, is it aggression, herding or ?

[loren Kristunas]

Hello, I'm new to this site. I'm writing about Sage, a 1 1/2 year old lab/border collie mix I rescued from the pound 3 months ago. She is generally friendly with people, never aggressive although sometimes shy with strangers and sometimes plays too rough. With other dogs she was initially quite fearful, head down, tail between legs, hackles up. We've been working on building confidence, using NILIF and have taken her to obedience, are are going back to obedience classes in a few weeks. She seemed to be doing well and building confidence, she plays great with my golden and with a friends dog she sees everyday, and is less fearful with strange dogs at the dog park, will play fine with most of them. However, she has taken to stalking some new dogs, belly close to ground, then charges, stops, stares, give a low growl(no bared teeth) and snaps right in their face. She never bites or takes it further. 95% of the dogs she does with with just ignore her, although a few have responded aggressively. Also, yesterday she got into really rough play with a dog she has played well with before, growling (she always growls and vocalizes when playing,. so it's confusing) and making quick lunges for her neck, not biting but really intimidating the other dog. When she plays at home she is really vocal, growls all the time, and will snap her jaws shut in the other dogs face, but it is clearly play and taken so by the other dogs. The behaviors I'm concerned about feel different, not play but not really aggression, I'm thinking maybe dominence, or an adolescent testing limits, or maybe herding behaviors? Does anyone have any thoughts on this and what to do?

 

[Renee750il]

That sounds like classic Border Collie herding to me. They're quite determined little creatures and use that Border Collie Stare to very good effect with herd animals. My youngest Fila, Kharma, displays exactly the same play behaviour; stalking, staring, rushing, growling. It can be a bit unnerving if you don't know what's going on!

 

[gaddylovesdogs]

Sounds like herding to me. My BC mix uses the famous stare all the time.

 

[Renee750il]

Don't laugh, but I've used the stare a couple of times on calves - works like a charm. I'd make a good Border Collie, lol!

 

[BigDog2191]

My GSD puppy, Rocky, tries to herd my dad and I all the time. LOL, it's pretty funny when you see it because he's so small and he's trying to herd MUCH bigger things .

But I'll be walking and he'll jump ahead of me and look back every once in a while and if I go "off path" then he'll kind of nip at my leg, lol.

 

[loren Kristunas]

new member, is it aggression, herding or what?

Thanks, I was wondering if it was herding. How about what she did yesterday, growling and lunging at another dogs neck while in play, it felt different from her regular play, more intimidating or bullying. Again, she didn't bite but grabbed at the dogs neck and scared her. Is that herding behavior too, or adolescent pushiness? And what do I do about these behaviors, they are pretty rude?

 

[Renee750il]

Kharma lunges at the neck and grabs when she's playing too. With your Border Collie, though, it could be a problem if another dog takes it wrong and decides to fight. Kharma I don't have to worry about - the dogs big enough for her to play with here are either ours or know her and they have wonderful wrestling matches. If they're strange dogs they don't need to be here around the cows anyway and it scares them off, lol.

It sounds like she needs some socializing in a controlled environment, like training classes, and then she'll really need something to satisfy her need to work, whether it's herding, agility, flyball, etc. Border Collies have a real need to work. They just aren't happy if they don't have a lot to do.

 

[loren Kristunas]

new member, is it aggressioin, herding or ?

Thanks for all the great input. It's pretty clear from what everyone has said she's herding. She has actually been doing much better with other dogs since we have been reviewing her obedience training with her more actively, when she starts to stalk we tell her to leave it and come back to us, that seems to break the pattern and she has sniffed and played very nicely, if a bit roughly. We are taking her back to obedience and will go through advanced obedience to keep her mind active. She has grade 1 luxating patellas (dislocating kneecaps) in both knees, so the vet said unfortunately agility and frisbee isn't a good idea for her. She runs and plays like a gazelle though, and can have lots of free play in open areas with different dogs, so we'll keep her body happy that way and her mind with training, I guess. Other ideas on keeping her "working" if she shouldn't put excessive stress on her joints? She gets bored so easily. It's funny, she looks much more like a lab, and I'm so used to retrievers, living with a herder is a whole new world.