Neutered or not ?

panzer426

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#61
it cost me in USA about $100 US Dollars. I dont know if amsterdam has them but some humane societies, shelters and rescues can help you get a discount. some vets will even work out a payment plan so that you dont have unwanted puppies and diseases/health problems.
I mostly hear about this with males, but I have heard of females doing anything they can (including things you wouldnt think possible) to get to a male when she is in heat. last year I heard about a female border collie who jumped off of a 3rd story balconey (I think in san francisco?) and died trying to get to a male.
 
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#62
:eek: jumped off a balcony ...omg..well as i said earlier, checked with her vet and it cost EUR240 for the operation
 

Bowowee

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#63
Spaying and Neutering is a cruel, futile, expensive and unnecessary effort to curb the ever growing dog population. Just as it would be considered unethical to remove the ovaries of a girl or woman to sterilize her and control her femininity and sexual behavior for convenience. I believe that it is unethical to perform this procedure on a pet. I think the elimination of puppy mills and proper government regulation of ownership and breeding is the solution to the problem.
 

Bowowee

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#64
Wings said:
:eek: jumped off a balcony ...omg..well as i said earlier, checked with her vet and it cost EUR240 for the operation

That is a lot of money for something that is not needed. I suggest you take note of your dogs "heat" period. A dog comes into heat more or less twice a year. Its not that hard to track her heat period. When she's in heat just keep her inside the house and don't let her out. Its that easy, you'll save money and keep your dog complete.
 

Zoom

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#65
Bowowee said:
Spaying and Neutering is a cruel, futile, expensive and unnecessary effort to curb the ever growing dog population.
Riiight...and what's your proof to back this up?

Just as it would be considered unethical to remove the ovaries of a girl or woman to sterilize her and control her femininity and sexual behavior for convenience. I believe that it is unethical to perform this procedure on a pet.
We also don't breed/feel the need to breed at every heat, nor do we produce 6-10 babies at every birth. It's not about controlling feminity, it's about keeping the unwanted population down and improving the quality of life. If I knew that I never was going to want to have kids, I would get my tubes tied next week and never have to worry about another round of PMS again in my life.

Also, dogs don't have the thought processes necessary to decide "You know, I don't think I'm going to mate this cycle." Human females do, or at least should. I know more than one who doesn't have the good sense God gave a doorknob, but that's another story.

What is your definition of feminity for people vs. dogs?

I think the elimination of puppy mills and proper government regulation of ownership and breeding is the solution to the problem.
It'll be a wonderful, wonderful day when the last puppy mill is busted and shut down, but I fear it's a terribly long time in coming. I too think there should be some sort of competentcy test for ownership, but many of us live in the US and that would be construed as a blow to personal rights and freedoms, so it'll never pass.
 

Bowowee

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#66
Zoom said:
Riiight...and what's your proof to back this up?



We also don't breed/feel the need to breed at every heat, nor do we produce 6-10 babies at every birth. It's not about controlling feminity, it's about keeping the unwanted population down and improving the quality of life. If I knew that I never was going to want to have kids, I would get my tubes tied next week and never have to worry about another round of PMS again in my life.

Also, dogs don't have the thought processes necessary to decide "You know, I don't think I'm going to mate this cycle." Human females do, or at least should. I know more than one who doesn't have the good sense God gave a doorknob, but that's another story.

What is your definition of feminity for people vs. dogs?



It'll be a wonderful, wonderful day when the last puppy mill is busted and shut down, but I fear it's a terribly long time in coming. I too think there should be some sort of competentcy test for ownership, but many of us live in the US and that would be construed as a blow to personal rights and freedoms, so it'll never pass.

Well then I guess we can't solve that problem of over population. Too bad...
 

bubbatd

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#68
Zoom.... you'll never win here ! Bow is set in her ways, and fine.... as long as she doesn't breed, except responsibly , and has her males confined not to copulate and checks on their well being as to testicular cancer. She doesn't live here. I agree with you, but it's like telling a Japanese wife of the 50s, she shouldn't follow and bow to her husband. It's her dog's loss and her country's too... when she could educate .
"
 
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#69
i agree with bubbatd, we can never convince bow ... and well its her way of thinking and NO i cannot allow my girl to stay in the house alone for 10 hrs a day for 2 weeks minimum w/o her walks when she is in heat ...i think that is more cruel
 

Athebeau

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Quote by Bowowee Just as it would be considered unethical to remove the ovaries of a girl or woman to sterilize her and control her femininity and sexual behavior for convenience. I believe that it is unethical to perform this procedure on a pet. I think the elimination of puppy mills and proper government regulation of ownership and breeding is the solution to the problem.
Have you ever talked to a women (human) who has had a full hysterectomy due to illness or other reasons...they are still feminine, and can have sex. We humans (and perhaps dolphins and apes) are the only species that have sex for pleasure. To convert our ideas of sexuality and place them on dogs is not very bright.:)
Do you really think the Government has the time/resources or money to put into regulating ownership and breeding:confused: Wow, we can barely take care of the people (education, poverty etc.). You will never get rid of puppymills, the only thing that will stop them is when people stop paying money for pet dogs. No money, no reason to breed...simple.

Spaying and Neutering should be mandatory for pet animals. It does nothing to change their personality, and actually takes the biggest stressor out of their life...not being able to reproduce with the proper "equipment" is much more unhealthy and stressful for a dog/cat. Casterating also prevents many unwanted problems in the future. Also, males that are intact and not able to breed can suffer problems due to this.

If you were to compare wild animals to our domestic dogs/cats then that is unrealistic. In the domestic world we have cures and vaccines to prevent puppies and dogs from dying. In the wild survival of the fittest decides who survives to pass on their genes...not all wild dogs survive past puppyhood. This helps keep the population from getting crazy and out of control. But, having said that, having domestic dogs living in amongst humans we cannot allow these diseases/parasites/bacterial infections/starvation to cull the weak naturally. We cannot allow diseases to run loose throughout a human civilization, it puts we humans at risk.

Quote by Bowowee I suggest you take note of your dogs "heat" period. A dog comes into heat more or less twice a year. Its not that hard to track her heat period. When she's in heat just keep her inside the house and don't let her out. Its that easy, you'll save money and keep your dog complete.
Do you know how hard that is for most people? I have seen male dogs scale high fences to get to a female in heat. At one kennel I worked at a Shepherd in boarding chewed through chain link fence to get at a female Dalmation in heat. I know of children who have almost been attacked by going out the front door of their home and having intact males outside fighting (that was me when I was a child:) ). Most people "think" that when the female is bleeding that's the time to keep the female away, when it's after they stop bleeding that they can be bred. I can't count the amount of unwanted pregnancies with pet dogs I have seen that happened for this reason. Some females have silent heats as well.

Dogs can also have split heats, my female Tori had 4 heat cycles last year. Not fun, blood dripping in the house. Yeah, great fun. After this litter the breeder will allow me to have her spayed....I can't wait. Poor Tori goes through such stress during the heat cycle, the other females become bitchy towards her, and she usually get down in the dumps when in heat.

Perhaps it is different in Countries where over population gets reduced due to disease and starvation/shooting. But, here in North America while there are some sad situations etc. on the most part a big majority of pups/dogs are feed, sheltered and vaccinated against disease. Dogs that are well fed will produce bigger litters than domestic dogs in poor countries. What may be fine in a poverty area or Countries that have once a year dog shootings then it may be fine to not alter your pet. Yes, in most underdeveloped Countries when the population of dogs gets too high, they shoot all the loose dogs they can find. That is probably how the Phillipines takes care of over population. It won't work here:) That's how they control rabies and distemper.
 

Bowowee

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#72
Athebeau said:
Have you ever talked to a women (human) who has had a full hysterectomy due to illness or other reasons...they are still feminine, and can have sex. We humans (and perhaps dolphins and apes) are the only species that have sex for pleasure. To convert our ideas of sexuality and place them on dogs is not very bright.:)
Do you really think the Government has the time/resources or money to put into regulating ownership and breeding:confused: Wow, we can barely take care of the people (education, poverty etc.). You will never get rid of puppymills, the only thing that will stop them is when people stop paying money for pet dogs. No money, no reason to breed...simple.

Spaying and Neutering should be mandatory for pet animals. It does nothing to change their personality, and actually takes the biggest stressor out of their life...not being able to reproduce with the proper "equipment" is much more unhealthy and stressful for a dog/cat. Casterating also prevents many unwanted problems in the future. Also, males that are intact and not able to breed can suffer problems due to this.

If you were to compare wild animals to our domestic dogs/cats then that is unrealistic. In the domestic world we have cures and vaccines to prevent puppies and dogs from dying. In the wild survival of the fittest decides who survives to pass on their genes...not all wild dogs survive past puppyhood. This helps keep the population from getting crazy and out of control. But, having said that, having domestic dogs living in amongst humans we cannot allow these diseases/parasites/bacterial infections/starvation to cull the weak naturally. We cannot allow diseases to run loose throughout a human civilization, it puts we humans at risk.



Do you know how hard that is for most people? I have seen male dogs scale high fences to get to a female in heat. At one kennel I worked at a Shepherd in boarding chewed through chain link fence to get at a female Dalmation in heat. I know of children who have almost been attacked by going out the front door of their home and having intact males outside fighting (that was me when I was a child:) ). Most people "think" that when the female is bleeding that's the time to keep the female away, when it's after they stop bleeding that they can be bred. I can't count the amount of unwanted pregnancies with pet dogs I have seen that happened for this reason. Some females have silent heats as well.

Dogs can also have split heats, my female Tori had 4 heat cycles last year. Not fun, blood dripping in the house. Yeah, great fun. After this litter the breeder will allow me to have her spayed....I can't wait. Poor Tori goes through such stress during the heat cycle, the other females become bitchy towards her, and she usually get down in the dumps when in heat.

Perhaps it is different in Countries where over population gets reduced due to disease and starvation/shooting. But, here in North America while there are some sad situations etc. on the most part a big majority of pups/dogs are feed, sheltered and vaccinated against disease. Dogs that are well fed will produce bigger litters than domestic dogs in poor countries. What may be fine in a poverty area or Countries that have once a year dog shootings then it may be fine to not alter your pet. Yes, in most underdeveloped Countries when the population of dogs gets too high, they shoot all the loose dogs they can find. That is probably how the Phillipines takes care of over population. It won't work here:) That's how they control rabies and distemper.


Well, I just can't imagine how a country as rich as yours who can drop million dollar bombs and ammos at other countries could not afford to regulate dog ownership. I'm just expressing my opinion, if you don't like it fine with me. You need not call me all sorts of stuff or degrade my person. I was just answering the subject of the thread "neutered or not". It so happened that I'm not for neutering so whats wrong with that? Is it bad to have a different opinion from you guys? I've no interest to enter into any contest here. If you like to neuter or spay your dogs then go ahead do it. I'm just answering the thread thats all.
 

Bowowee

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#73
bubbatd said:
Zoom.... you'll never win here ! Bow is set in her ways, and fine.... as long as she doesn't breed, except responsibly , and has her males confined not to copulate and checks on their well being as to testicular cancer. She doesn't live here. I agree with you, but it's like telling a Japanese wife of the 50s, she shouldn't follow and bow to her husband. It's her dog's loss and her country's too... when she could educate .
"
I'm just expressing my opinion, if you don't like it fine with me. You need not call me all sorts of stuff or degrade my person. I was just answering the subject of the thread "neutered or not". It so happened that I'm not for neutering so whats wrong with that? Is it bad to have a different opinion from you guys? I've no interest to enter into any contest here. If you like to neuter or spay your dogs then go ahead do it. I'm just answering the thread thats all.
 

Zoom

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#74
Bowowee said:
Well, I just can't imagine how a country as rich as yours who can drop million dollar bombs and ammos at other countries could not afford to regulate dog ownership.
This is actually a very good point, maybe not in relation to dog ownership (in which willingness to go along is the major obstacle, not money), but in world perception.
 
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#75
Bowowee said:
Well, I just can't imagine how a country as rich as yours who can drop million dollar bombs and ammos at other countries could not afford to regulate dog ownership.
That's the beauty of living in a free country where not EVERYTHING is decided for us or dictated, now isn't it? We have the right to choose to purchase from a puppy mill and add to the demand. We also have the right to breed our pets or have them altered. It's called "freedom" if you ask me...
And dog ownership is regulated to a certain extent. Most if not all states and counties mandate proper vaccines and set guidelines for proper living conditions. Most if not all states and counties have laws set to ensure that nobody is keeping too many animals, anybody wishing to have more must have a kennel license. Commercial puppy mills are, believe it or not, regulated by the USDA (I believe) the same as the cattle industry. Currently there is a bill on the Senate floor (which is controversial and sponsored by the HSUS and AKC) to help eliminate and regulate breedings and mass importing...
 

Athebeau

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#77
Bowowee,
I was not putting you down as a person at all. The point I am trying to make is we should be more pro Neutering/Spaying. In most of your statements you basically have put us down for "fixing" our dogs. If you can dish it out, then be prepared to have people rebuttel against your statements...nothing against you personally, just your statements.:)
When she's in heat just keep her inside the house and don't let her out. Its that easy, you'll save money and keep your dog complete.
This statement that you made makes it sound soooo easy. It's just not that easy for most pet owners.

With pet owners, most time when they have an oopsy accident, the pups either end up at a shelter, go to homes where research wasn't done. Or, you have the cold hearted people who continue to let their dogs reproduce, bag up the pups and drown them. At the Vet clinic I worked at I could tell you millions of sad stories of pups that should never have been born...torture of these pups could have been avoided by simply spaying.

If you want to keep your animals in tact, that's fine...you sound like you have it under control. But, for the most part we should be praising the benefits of spaying and neutering.

There will always be puppy mills and irresponsible breeders, no law in the world will be able to stop this. The only way to stop them is if people stop buying them. If there is monetary gain, people who are making a profit are going to find ways to deceive people so they don't get caught.
 

Bowowee

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#78
Athebeau said:
Bowowee,
I was not putting you down as a person at all. The point I am trying to make is we should be more pro Neutering/Spaying. In most of your statements you basically have put us down for "fixing" our dogs. If you can dish it out, then be prepared to have people rebuttel against your statements...nothing against you personally, just your statements.:)

This statement that you made makes it sound soooo easy. It's just not that easy for most pet owners.

With pet owners, most time when they have an oopsy accident, the pups either end up at a shelter, go to homes where research wasn't done. Or, you have the cold hearted people who continue to let their dogs reproduce, bag up the pups and drown them. At the Vet clinic I worked at I could tell you millions of sad stories of pups that should never have been born...torture of these pups could have been avoided by simply spaying.

If you want to keep your animals in tact, that's fine...you sound like you have it under control. But, for the most part we should be praising the benefits of spaying and neutering.

There will always be puppy mills and irresponsible breeders, no law in the world will be able to stop this. The only way to stop them is if people stop buying them. If there is monetary gain, people who are making a profit are going to find ways to deceive people so they don't get caught.

- You've posted quite well. I'm not really referring to you when I spoke of that "degrading thing". I was referring to others who called me names and degraded my person when I voiced out my opinion.
 

Bowowee

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#79
bubbatd said:
Zoom.... you'll never win here ! Bow is set in her ways, and fine.... as long as she doesn't breed, except responsibly , and has her males confined not to copulate and checks on their well being as to testicular cancer. She doesn't live here. I agree with you, but it's like telling a Japanese wife of the 50s, she shouldn't follow and bow to her husband. It's her dog's loss and her country's too... when she could educate .
"
- Like this post. This is uncalled for. Having a different opinion from him would make you sound like some sort of ignorant loser. As I've told you Bubbatd, I'm not joining any contest here. I just voiced out my opinion. If you don't like it, fine with me. Just don't say anything unfair or impolite coz I never said anything bad to you on this thread.
 

bubbatd

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#80
You took my message wrong, Bow. I only meant that there were 2 different sides here...and each of you have a right to your own beliefs.
 

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