Need more ideas

[tessa_s212]

Okay guys, I need more ideas. I haven't done too much work with it yet, but would rather have as many options as possible before I start to know which one might work best.

Now, this is a dog that loves both treats and toys. But hates to down. He's deep chested and if he is in the down position without rolling onto a hip, it isn't the most comfortable, especially on hard floors. He pretty much still needs hand signal for the down, but he's been doing better with just some body movement and a verbal command.

I plan to move him up to Grad. Novice in my 4-H program this summer, and so he wil NEED to learn to do the drop on recalls.

So, lets hear it. How does everyone teach it? Anyone have a method that works well for a (how do I say this in a nice way? ) not so bright dog that already doesn't enjoy downing, and hates being away from its owner?

 

[Cheza]

I'm interested in this too.. Cheza doesn't like to down properly; she will fall to one side and always looks uncomfortable when she's in a "proper" down.

 

[geisthexe]

Hello

Here are some tips on how to get the dog to work for you

- Put the dog in a down
- While in a down just keep dropping pieces of a treat and when it hits the ground say your command and say good boy/girl.
- After a few minutes release the dog then walk around and do another command.
- Come back to it and repeat the exercise
-Do this about 5 times and for about 3 to 5 days
- after the 3 to 5 days
- start doing the excercise again but w/o treats just with praise
- treat after that every once in a while to let them know they are doing good.

Hope this helps

Deb

 

[tessa_s212]

Deb, thankyou for the advice. Whenever downing on a hard or cold surface he always gets the highest value treats, but that so far only temporarily takes away from his displeasure with the down. No matter, he still almost always goes down, its just normally a very sloooooooow down.

We'll be continuing the work with the down near, but I'm at a loss as to what to do about the drop on recall. He does not down away from me. No amount of shaping will get the dog away from me when sitting or downing. If I start him in a sit and gradually move away, I get stuck when he isn't within 2 inches of me. If I am further away, he will crawl into a down until he's still next to me. He's a momma's boy, and he's going to try to stay right next to me. He won't give up without a fight. It doesn't help that well, hes not so bright and of a very sensitive breed.

I've attempted the idea of downing on a rug.. he never quite learned to associate the down with the rug. Again, he's not too bright! Lol.

 

[geisthexe]

Tessa

get a long lead about 15 to 26 ft. and tie one end to the tree or have someone hold it.
then walk out and do the sit command.
walk away and let the dog do what he/she is going to do stand sit whatever but the fact that they will have to be right there
If you have someone holding the dog you can get them to keep the dog in a sit. so you can drop lead and walk away
Do you plan on doing Obedience at the show?
If not we can work on it there
Call me if you want i can explain it better

Deb

Deb

 

[tessa_s212]

Tessa

get a long lead about 15 to 26 ft. and tie one end to the tree or have someone hold it.
then walk out and do the sit command.
walk away and let the dog do what he/she is going to do stand sit whatever but the fact that they will have to be right there
If you have someone holding the dog you can get them to keep the dog in a sit. so you can drop lead and walk away
Do you plan on doing Obedience at the show?
If not we can work on it there
Call me if you want i can explain it better


Deb

Nope, since we were worried about getting our entries in and low on money we just entered the show part. No performance, sadly.

 

[Lissa]

I would make sure to capture all "downs" and reward big time - make it fun. Perhaps teach the crawl command or have him crawl under chairs so he gets used to that position being rewarding and fun - not just a boring and uncomfortable stay.

To increase speed, try tugging and then asking for a down - you should get a faster one, than if you had just given the command without riling him up. Time how long it takes and then use that as your base - only rewarding for downs that are for example, completed in 3 seconds or less.

I have a deep chested dog as well - he doesn't so much have a problem with down as he does with "hard" surfaces (tile, hardwood, rubber mats)... Thankfully all it took was practice at home - particularly before dinner. He'd be hyped/hungry for his food and quickly realized that until he held the down and did it reasonably fast, he wasn't getting dinner

With regard to a DOR, Dodger learned that with the help of a target. First of all you need to send your dog out to touch a target at least 10 feet - preferably closer to 30 feet away. When he's doing that you can start expecting a down on the target - obviously make it easier by being closer to the target at first (you can prompt the dog to down, although I waited Dodger out). When the dog can be sent out 30 feet to the target and will down, you are ready for the next step. If at any time, the dog doesn't comply and comes to you instead, all you do is escort him back to the target and reward him in the down position. Once you are passed that, you can stand about 10 feet away from the target and throw a treat passed it - the dog will go off and get the treat, putting the target in between you and the dog. On your dogs way back to you and about 2-3 feet before the target, give the dog the down command - if he doesn't down immediately you just calmly take him back to the target and reward there. Do not call the dog to you - you do not want the dog running at full speed back to you as he'll be likley to blow past the target. So if you can wait until he comes back to you or use the least exciting version of "come".
That's what I did with Dodger - I don't know of any other ways to compare it to BUT all of these steps took Dodger less than 3 weeks to learn - by week 5 I'd faded the target. It was very fast. The hard part is the distraction/distance part of the training (without a target) - that took EASILY 4 times as long than the initial training

Good luck! Sorry I don't have any sure-fire or original suggestions - sounds like this is just something that will take patience and practice!

 

[tessa_s212]

Lissa, tugging works very well. When it comes to soft surface, I shaped by only started to reward the faster, and then finally the fastest downs. He's pretty good on soft surfaces as far as speed goes. On hard surfaces though, I actually am a bit shy of using the tugging. He gets toooo enthusiastic and will slam his elbows into the cement. I don't want him to hurt himself.

I think what the target is used for is what I tried with teh rug. Tried to teach him to lie on the rug, and he woudl, but he didn't connect the idea. Lol. (Boy, should have picked a smart breed!)

Even with my cocker, who is supposed to be "stupid", all I actually had to do was ask for a drop. She just "got it" without much extra training.

I've attempted target training before.. it didn't go so great. I can try again. Maybe third times the charm?

 

[tessa_s212]

Lol. Are all the trainers on break!?

*waves hands in air* over here you guys!

Lissa, I'll have to try and teach him to target.. again.

And I'lll try the tying him somewhere so that he CAN'T come closer and learn to listen even with me further away.

 

[RedyreRottweilers]

Defensive reactions to comments, and/or advice in the past makes it unlikely that people will want to comment or offer suggestions.

Knowing how to work with different dogs and understanding many different methods of helping a dog to present a behavior is part of what any TRAINER learns over YEARS of instruction, seminars, and experience.

Best of luck to you with the dog. I would suggest you talk to people in your area who can help you hands on with him.

 

[otch1]

Agree RedyreRott. I'm also not inclined to continue giving training advice to anyone that's going to debate it or turn it into something personal. It's just training info! I also don't like giving instruction to someone that then might use it to go and teach another. There's so much more to this than just getting printed information off of the internet or a book. The best instruction is in person, hands on from your trainer, when trying to correct a road block in the training proccess.

 

[tessa_s212]

Red and Otch, if all you are going to do is come onto MY thread and insult and attack me, you're wasting your breath.

Red, you CANNOT tell me that I never take advice. You are a LIAR if you do. You AND I both know that I've taken your advice as I've personally PMed you asking for it.

And Otch, as for you... the offer still stands if you'd ever wish to make things right and stop this nonsense. Until then, continue to attack me and insult me if you'd like, it makes no difference to me. I know what and who I am, I know the level of understanding of dog training I have. One day you might realize too, but that is highly doubtful. You get a grudge and hold it.

I hope one day you both learn to treat people kindly

 

[Buddy'sParents]

I see NO personal attacks nor insults from either Red or Otch. In fact, the only insults I see slinging across this thread are coming from you, Tessa.

Take a deep breath, child. More than once these two fine people have given you advice and you've stomped all over them. The fact that they even replied to you says much about their character.

Practice what you preach, because I hope, that one day, you will treat others with respect and freely give your knowledge as others have to you and RESPECT it.

I hope one day you both learn to treat people kindly

 

[tessa_s212]

I see NO personal attacks nor insults from either Red or Otch. In fact, the only insults I see slinging across this thread are coming from you, Tessa.

Take a deep breath, child. More than once these two fine people have given you advice and you've stomped all over them. The fact that they even replied to you says much about their character.

Practice what you preach, because I hope, that one day, you will treat others with respect and freely give your knowledge as others have to you and RESPECT it.

That's because you're all biased and that think they can go around insulting others.

I have never stomped all over them. They've insulted me and I've defended myself. I've never attacked them. I've merely defended myself.

Ya, it says how relentless and awful they are about letting something go and not judging others. The adult thing to do would be to GET OVER It and move on. Holding grudges isn't a very kind thing to do. It isn't healthy for you, or the people around you. I'd wish all of you would realize that.

I DO TREAT PEOPLE WITH RESPECT. The only people that would ever even dare to assume I don't treat others with respect are the dumb asses here on this forum that think they can sit here and judge me and know me. They CAN'T. YOU can't. If you think I'm not a kind, caring person that shows respect, then YOU don't know me. Not ONE bit. If it is one thing I have, show to others, and appreciate, it is respect and kindness. And I'd appreciate it if you'd stop judging and insulting me.

Every time these threads turn into something about me is because people here just can't stop judging others. Take your heads out of your {mod edit. don't you talk to people like that} and actually care to learn the truth about someone instead of assuming your God in your abilities to judge others' characters.

I'm done trying to prove anything to your kind. I'm done.

 

[Renee750il]

Tessa. This is me. Please listen. Calm down. You really are reading things into the posts that aren't there.

Send me an e-mail. Or two or three or however many you need to.

 

[Brattina88]

Ditto, Renee.
As on out-of-the-loop, open minded person, from my P.O.V the only thing I see in this thread is post #12, where the words "MY" and "LIAR" jump out at me
you can PM me , we haven't talked in a while, and I'd like that. Unless you don't want to, of course.