Need Help Disciplinning!!

angie8023

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#1
My fiance and I have a really great 10 month old terrier mix named Sancho. He is sweet, non agressive, and great around children. He hasn't been listening to us as much as he used to. The only bad thing he does is grab paper out of the trash. My fiance thinks that spanking the dog when he does this will keep him from not doing it again. This has not been working. I choose not to spank him but rather put him in his cage when he does something wrong. This hasn't been working either. Does anyone have any suggestions for me? I am so lost:(
 

Saje

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#2
He's a pup. If he gets into the garbage it's your fault. Keep the garbage under the sink or somewhere he can't get to it. Any mistakes he makes are your fault. Always. Try to redirect the behaviour by giving him something appropriate to play with. He will outgrow it. Please do not hit your dog. :mad:
 

angie8023

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#3
I want to make it clear that I do not hit my dog! I tell him no and put him in his cage. My fiance is the one that uses spanking as a form of discipline. We are both still learning that it why I am asking for suggestions. I am hoping that he will grow out of it.
 

Saje

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#4
Ok, please do not allow anyone to hit your dog. That is not going to teach him anything except to fear you. :(
 

Zoom

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#5
Really, the simplest thing is to put the trash elsewhere, or to crate him when you're not watching him. It's fun for him to get in the trash and he will not connect his getting hit by anyone with "that means don't get in the trash." It will teach him that your fiance is unpredictable and that might affect your dog's behavior towards him as he grows up. Dogs respect those they trust and hitting damages trust.
 

MafiaPrincess

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#6
You need to put it where the dog can't get it. That is pretty much the only solution till he grows up a lot more. Even then, paper is tempting, and my 2.5 year old when zooming will still shred newspaper.
 

coteyr

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#7
don't put the dog in the crate. If used as a punishment it will become just that. The crate will go from a "safe spot" to a punishment. You dog will hate to be there. Just move the trash.
 

angie8023

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#8
This has all been very helpful. I appreciate everyones input! I do have one other problem that isn't as easy as keeping trash out of his way. He recently tore up our carpet in our brand new apartment. Do I need to crate him while we are gone? I want to be able to leave him out of his crate while I am not around. Am I nieve for thinking that this might be possible?
 

Zoom

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#9
It might be possible later, but right now he's proving that he's not trustworthy by himself. Start getting him used to being crated now so he doesn't form destructive habits, then when he's out of the puppy stages (around a year or so, maybe sooner, maybe later--depends on the dog) you can start leaving him out for 5 minutes and work your way from there. Also, make sure he's getting plenty of exercise. A tired dog is a good dog.
 
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#10
Ditto on the no more spanking and using the crate as punishment. Aside from keeping the garbage lid secured, you can start teaching him "Leave it". I also agree with what the previous poster said. It's perfectly fine to crate him while you're gone.
 

Maxy24

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#11
No more hitting from Hubby and no crate punishment, it's supposed to be their happy safe place after all. Definitely put him in the crate while you are gone so he does not get to have all that fun destroying your stuff because each time he does it he remembers how fun it is to do and that will make the habit of doing it even stronger each time. Also Make sure he has something to do in the crate (a Stuffed Kong for instance). Eventually he can be left un-crated if you want but not while he is a puppy, that's asking too much of a baby. I'm glad you asked for help, I hate to see when people come for help having already abused there dog for doing bad behavior for years and now he gets aggressive if they yell or go to to pet him because the dog thinks he is gonna be punished or hit and has had enough. Believe me without pain the dog will be much happier and you will get the same or better results without the risk of behavior and mental problems in your dog (plus you don't have to hit him, Why do that if you don't have to? It can't be fun for you).
 

Rubylove

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#12
Also, at ten months he is an adolescent. Much the same as a human teenager, commands that you thought he had learned will often go out the window, he won't `listen as much' as you've already noticed, and now is the time when he will start testing his boundaries as all teenagers will do. It sounds funny but that's absolutely what is going on.

In terms of hitting, well, you already know that's not effective. If your boyfriend is spanking him well after he finds the trash has been gone through it's even less effective. Don't think that pointing at the trash and then spanking will make your dog understand - it won't. They don't and can't make connections like that.

If you catch him in the trash, red-handed, so to speak, say a firm, deep `Aah!' and then redirect him to something he IS allowed to play with, praising him when he shows interest. Dogs will do what works for them, and will stop doing what doesn't work for them. If you base everything you do with him on that simple principle you'll do just fine.

While he's an adolescent puppy, following this method and keeping the trash out of his reach will do the trick. That method applies to anything you catch him chewing on that he's not allowed. Redirect, redirect, and praise for the right behaviour.

Do not EVER use his crate as a punishment. Like others have said, if you do that (especially if you also use it as a safe haven) it will totally confuse him and make him very fearful and wary of it. You can use time out if he's going a little bit crazy, some isolation for no more than a minute often lets them chill out and settle down. You can certainly leave him in the crate when you are not home, until he learns better what he can and cannot chew and play with, but definitely not if you're using it for punishment. He will think he's done something wrong and will spend his time in there in a state of anxiety that could lead to plenty of other problems down the track.

Now is the time when you need to be reinforcing all of his commands and his behaviours, and putting NILIF into place - Nothing In Life Is Free. He sits for a treat. He sits for a pat or cuddle. He sits to play. He sits for his dinner. It will teach him that he has to earn the good things in life (don't overdo it by making him jump through hoops - a simple sit is enough), and it also teaches him discipline, how to wait for things he wants, how to ask nicely (a sit is the equivalent of a `please') and how to automatically obey you when you give him a command.

Also, be patient. Lots of love and cuddles and praise for doing the right thing. He's still a puppy but a teenaged one, and teenagers need validation, within clear delineated boundaries. Keep us posted. :)
 
R

RedyreRottweilers

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#13
No hitting. And JMO, watch out for a man who wants to hit a puppy to "discipline" it.

Use your primate brain. :D MANAGE the puppy's life so he is unable to make mistakes. You have a crate, use it in a TIMELY manner. When you are unable to supervise, for example, put the pup in the crate.

The trash is a no brainer. As others have stated, put it where he can't get it.

A good toy box can fix or eliminate many issues with puppies. I believe there is a sticky here, about why your puppy needs a toy box. It would be worth a read, let me know if you can't find it.
 

carlar

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#14
We never leave our dogs loose when we are gone or asleep. They each have their own home (crate). It not only protects our things it protects them. Never hit your dog to correct them. They respond better to a firm voice and time away (such as in their crate).
 

Doberluv

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#15
My 3-1/2 yr old Doberman has good manners, has a lot of training and he still, occasionally loves getting into the waste paper baskets, like in bathrooms...not the kitchen garbage (that is definitely out of reach because it can have nasty things in there). I was over at my folks yesterday and there he was picking kleenexes out of the trash. He's just this big goof and does silly things sometimes. I don't look at it like some serious, horrible thing. I just walked over, picked up the mess and put it out of his reach and tried to interest him in a toy. It's like little kids. You don't need to be nasty or scary to them. Just show them what you'd rather have them play with and leave it at that. Better yet, prevent it in the first place.

There's never ever a reason to hit a dog as your fiance did. If someone hit my dog, he'd be history. There is never a reason or excuse to cause a dog pain, confusion, fear, trepidation....NEVER.

I love my dog with all my heart and causing fear in him of humans is absoltutely not part of training. Dogs do not understand our anger or physical violence. It means nothing to them other than we are not to be trusted. Showing the dog is....redirecting, giving alternatives, preventing, reinforcing for good behavior...that's training.

I recommend you get some good training books to help you understand how dogs learn, how their minds work. Culture Clash by Jean Donaldson is my favorite. There are other good ones too. I just got finished reading On Talking Terms with Dogs: Calming Signals by Turid Rugaas...a delightful book. It is not so much a training book, but nevertheless, some helpful ways to understand dogs...and I love her outlook on dogs. I think it's important when one has a dog to get some understanding of them. It will make your life a lot easier not to mention the dogs.
 

otch1

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#16
Liked your post Doberluv. Agree with everyone. Best to explain to your fiance that physically correcting the puppy in this manner, will simply teach him how to avoid the correction. I.e. "RUN, dads coming!" It doesn't teach him what he is supposed to to do. A raised voice (yelling) from him will have a similar effect. It will teach the puppy to tune him out over time. Puppy proofing your house and teaching "leave it" are important. Even if this was done as a small puppy, it's an on going process until he's mature. Terriers are busy little dogs and need a lot of mental stimulation and exercise. When you find this pup's getting into a lot of things or causing a problem, time to hand your fiance the leash and go for a walk. Lol
 

Maxy24

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#17
loves getting into the waste paper baskets, like in bathrooms
Max loved bathroom trashes too. Once we had a relative come over with a baby and the next day Max thought it would be fun to eat all the wipes that were used to wipe the baby's bum, YUM! there was poop all over the living room :D (wasn't funny at the time though, you know a house of six people and I always have to clean up the pet messes :confused: oh well :p )
 

angie8023

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#18
Thanks again for everyones advice. Everything you guys have said really makes sense. I loved the teenager analogy RubyLove. I was a bit discouraged because he was listening to all of my commands, now he just runs off! I am going to start leaving him in the crate when we are gone. How will I know when he is trustworthy enought to leave him out of the crate? Or will I never get to that point? BTW...I am not a moron:) I wouldn't be marrying someone who is a psychotic dog abuser. He was raised around dogs that were desciplined with a rolled up newspaper. These dogs grew up to be well behaved, trustworthy, loving dogs. This is why he believed it is okay to hit them. I explained to him a majority of the info I got from here, and he now thinks hitting is not the way to go. Thanks again for all of the amazing input. I will keep you guys posted.
 

Cheetah

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#19
I dunno if anyone's suggested it, but covered trash cans are a godsend lol... especially the round metal ones where you have to push the pedal for the lid to come up (spring-loaded ones can randomly pop up while you're gone). Every trash can in my house is covered.

My corgi is over a year old now, and is still crated when I am not home, but I am starting to trust him a little more, and often I put him in the exercise pen as well. Later on I'll try letting him be out when I'm not home as a trial and see how it goes.
 
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#20
I think you mentioned that he is a terrier mix? Well I have to say that in my experience, terriers respond poorly to "spanking". I too, have known many people who, like your husband, had great results with the newspaper method. Then, these people get a Terrier and, well, it doesn't work! Frankly I am strongly against any hitting at all, but I understand that this has been a standard training method for MANY years.

Whenever a dog is constantly attracted to anything that causes conflict, it is my opinion that you remove the source of the conflict...ie the trash can. What can actually occur is that the dog gets into the trash for attention. Ok, so he's getting yelled at or spanked? Doesn't always matter. To a dog, negative attention can still be attention. For now, put the trash away as everyone has wisely suggested. It's not that important and you will feel less stressed!

Regarding the crating for punishment. I'm afraid you have the use of the crate a little confused. The crate is mainly to be used when you are not at home, not as a place of punishment when you are home. This is a common mistake, but what you essentially allowing your dog to do is become destructive due to access. The less access a dog has to the things they want to get into or chew up, the faster they outgrow that stage.

Finally, I cannot emphasize the importance of continuing formal training enough. A lot of people focus on training when the puppy is young and then when pup reaches the "teenage months" they figure the dog is grown up! Don't fool yourself...training can be even more important during this phase than ever. Just like with teenage humans, you are no longer as exciting and important as you were before. You are competing with a myriad of stimuli and reinforcing positive behaviors and adding more complex ones can help to focus a teenage dog.

Really, you want to spend more time praising your dog than correcting. If you are correcting more than praising, it is your job to set up an environment that enables you to give more praise!
 

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