need help...aggressive dog

[buyler]

Hi all, I'm brand new to chazhound but have looked around the site quite a bit. Seems to me that this site is full of caring and knowledgeable pet owners, so hopefully some good advice can be sent my way.

I have a male pitt bull who is four years old (please look past the breed), and his name is Romeo. Romeo has lived with my parents for the past 3 years because I now live in an apartment that is too small for him. My parents also had two dogs of their own, an older female Shephard mix and a smaller black mutt named Max. Since Romeo was about 2 years old, he has shown serious aggression toward Max, the other male. A few times over the years, Romeo has gotten through the blockades set in place to keep them apart and got a hold of Max. He had the opportunity to kill, but never did. Just shook him up a bit. But yesterday, my father came home to find Max in a pool of blood and Romeo standing over him-- not aggressive at that time, possibly because Max was no longer fighting back??-- and took him immediately to the vet. Turns out that Romeo had severed Max's jugular, and within a few hours, Max passed away.

The issues here are many. First of all, Max was the only THING (animal, human, child, anything) that has ever Romeo showed any aggression towards. Is it possible it was just an 'alpha male' thing and will never resurface?? Also, if we were to give him to a shelter, either they would immediately put him down or someone would adopt him with the knowledge of his past and based on his breed put him in a ring to fight other dogs.

Romeo is a wonderful dog except for this. But its a big 'except'. I got him when he was 2 weeks old and hand fed him every three hours for months until he got stronger. This is tearing us all apart and some advice from an outside source would be greatly appreciated. Thanks so much.

 

[tara]

Sorry I can't help you with this, even though I am trying to deal with a semi-agressive dog myself. I do know that there are a lot of knowledgable people here that probably can though!
That is so sad though! Sorry for the loss.

 

[iheartsammy]

wow..thats really sad.. I'm really not sure what to do..

do not take him to the shelter though, dogs arn't disposible, and i dout anyone would adopt him knowing his past...

besides that, I really don't know what to stay, I'd say keep him, but be extreamly cautious near other dogs..

but I'm not the expert here...

 

[buyler]

thanks so much for the well wishes. the last thing i want to do is get rid of him, we're not the type to give up on any of our animals. i'm just hoping someone has some insight on what i can to do keep this from ever happening again....

 

[mojozen]

Since i have a pit mix, i can look past the breed but at the same time cannot. You have a dog aggressive dog on your hands with a breed that is known for dog aggression. Yes, many terriers are known for dog aggression, but the bully breed family is the ones that were bred for dog fighting for well nigh 100 years. This is NOT something that can always be trained out of a pit bull... is this something that will just magically go away? I don't think so... this is something that doesn't need a band aid cure of blockades... it needs serious training with a behaviorist that is familiar with pit bulls and their problems. If your dog is displaying dog aggression it can never be trusted outside of strict control.

Also pit bulls can be very reactive to the same sex - so since Romeo is male, it's not surprising that he went after Max the other male dog in the house. Is it just dominance? Probably not... not at this point... not this late in the game.

There are others who have dealt more with dog aggression in pit bulls and they will be able to give you pointers on what to do. My pit mix, Mojo, is fortunately not dog aggressive save for german shepherds. Even then I take precautions... Mojo is walked on leash in public and I am doing a lot of thinking about whether I want to add another dog to the mix - whether male or female.

Do you know anything about the true history of your dog's breed?

ETA: Depending on the area that you are in - some shelters will take on a pit bull with dog aggresion in it's past and only adopt out to a only dog home. And most shelters to my knowledge will never adopt out a pit bull to someone who may have connections to the dog fighting world. Can it happen? Yes... but they do take a lot of precautions to insure that it doesn't.

 

[iheartsammy]

Since i have a pit mix, i can look past the breed but at the same time cannot. You have a dog aggressive dog on your hands with a breed that is known for dog aggression. Yes, many terriers are known for dog aggression, but the bully breed family is the ones that were bred for dog fighting for well nigh 100 years. This is NOT something that can always be trained out of a pit bull... is this something that will just magically go away? I don't think so... this is something that doesn't need a band aid cure of blockades... it needs serious training with a behaviorist that is familiar with pit bulls and their problems. If your dog is displaying dog aggression it can never be trusted outside of strict control.

Also pit bulls can be very reactive to the same sex - so since Romeo is male, it's not surprising that he went after Max the other male dog in the house. Is it just dominance? Probably not... not at this point... not this late in the game.

There are others who have dealt more with dog aggression in pit bulls and they will be able to give you pointers on what to do. My pit mix, Mojo, is fortunately not dog aggressive save for german shepherds. Even then I take precautions... Mojo is walked on leash in public and I am doing a lot of thinking about whether I want to add another dog to the mix - whether male or female.

Do you know anything about the true history of your dog's breed?

I agree!!

 

[Amstaffer]

Sorry about your loss.

When you or a Dominant human that has good control of Romeo is not around....Crate him. Crating is not cruel and most dogs adjust to it just fine. Just make sure you don't crate him for real long times. Crate him while you are at work and then take him out. Also make sure you buy are crate bigger than the label suggests. When I first crate train my dogs I got the crates for Great Danes. I don't crate them anymore but it was handy when they went through the destructive phase.

There are lots of good dog trainer folks on her...so keep checking back I am sure someone will have more info, but I think crating is a good start.

Never leave him alone with another dog even the one he "likes"(since he is clearly aggressive) and at his age, avoid having him around other dogs period.

 

[mojozen]

Sorry about your loss.

When you or a Dominant human that has good control of Romeo is not around....Crate him. Crating is not cruel and most dogs adjust to it just fine. Just make sure you don't crate him for real long times. Crate him while you are at work and then take him out. Also make sure you buy are crate bigger than the label suggests. When I first crate train my dogs I got the crates for Great Danes. I don't crate them anymore but it was handy when they went through the destructive phase.

There are lots of good dog trainer folks on her...so keep checking back I am sure someone will have more info, but I think crating is a good start.

Never leave him alone with another dog even the one he "likes"(since he is clearly aggressive) and at his age, avoid having him around other dogs period.

Well said Amstaffer. I also taught Mojo about crating using a larger crate than his size. The crate i used was for my previous cattledog mix and it was even a little big for him!

 

[Spirit2010]

I am sorry for the loss. yes, do not take him to the shelter, and what I would advise, do not let him get near another male dog! Or do not trust him with any other dogs, female or male. Pit Bulls are dog aggressive. This is why I say this. And do not trust him with a cat, or any other pets, thats all I can say, but I would go with the person who has experience with Pit Bulls. Again I am sorry for your loss, and Welcome to Chazhound.com! Goodluck with him! Sorry I am not much help.

 

[ToscasMom]

Poor Poor Max.

 

[sam]

I'm very sorry for your loss.

Dog-dog aggression can occur in any breed of dog but is the norm with certain breeds and pitties are one of them. I think it's generally ackowledged that with pitbulls, two dogs should never be left together unsupervised even if they have never shown signs of agression towards each other.

Dog-dog aggression typically doesn't show up until a dog is fully mature around 18-24 months so people often mistakenly believe they don't have a dog aggressive dog until a nasty incident happens. It can't ever be "trained out" but it can certainly be managed.

I highly recommend a book called "Click to Calm" by Emma Parsons. I attended her aggression seminar this winter and she does wonderful work with aggressive dogs. You can get it on amazon.com or dogwise.com She also has a yahoo group by the same name which would be another great resource and source of support. I would also read Jean Donaldson's book on dog-dog aggression too.

I wish I could think of that really good pitbull information web site. Hopefully Elegy will come along and post it. She'd be a good person to talk to about this, having two pitties, one who is very reactive and being knowledgeable about dog behavior in general.

 

[milos_mommy]

i'm dealing with a similar issue, Milo, my JRT, is aggressive and only towards other males. i'd love to hear some advice...

 

[buyler]

A HUGE thank you for all your advice.... doors have been put up to separate rooms, and will therefore be able to keep Romeo separate from the other remaining dog at all times. Its a big house with a large fenced in back yard which he is chained up on a run in when he's out. We also have a crate if the need for that arises. Hopefully these precautions as well as a constant awareness of him being a true pit bull, we can avoid something like this happening again.

You are all so right, he's a dog aggressive dog and that's the bottom line. I've done a lot of research on the breed, but I guess the pitty lover in me overlooked the obvious due to his loving disposition and being a great dog otherwise.

Thanks again!!!

 

[bubbatd]

Welcome ! And I too am so sorry for your loss. Is there any way you could take him to your place and then contact a good behaviorist ?? Hang in here ...trainers will check in !

 

[Buddy'sParents]

I am incredibly sorry for your loss.

This is going to be moved to the traning section, perhaps you will get more attention from our knowledgeable trainers there.

Best of luck to you.

 

[Zoom]

I'm very sorry to hear about Max!

Unfortunetly, dog-dog aggression is the norm with pit bulls; it doesn't necessarily make them a bad dog, but it does have to be handled accordingly. As you've found out, it takes a solid barrier to keep dogs apart from each other.

I would not trust Romeo loose around any other dogs, especially male dogs. This isn't really something you can train "out"...the best you can do is train to ignore when you are walking in public and then properly confine when you are going out.

 

[adojrts]

Ok, first thing, sorry for Max poor fella.
I know very little about Pits and I am not going to give advice concerning them, especially considering there are people on this forum that are pro's or have experience etc. But I do have a couple of thoughts.......he is a male, correct? I would think getting him neutered should help. You also mentioned having him chained while out (unless I misunderstood), instead of chaining him, purchase and build a proper safe and secure run for him, also I agree with providing him with a very large and secure crate when he can't be supervised, (it wouldn't be the first time a dog has broken a window or door to get out).

Good luck
Lynn

 

[Doberluv]

I agree with the others. You just have to make sure he can't get at another dog. I just mainly wanted to give you my sympathies for your loss. What a shame...so very sad.

 

[pancho]

Hi all, I'm brand new to chazhound but have looked around the site quite a bit. Seems to me that this site is full of caring and knowledgeable pet owners, so hopefully some good advice can be sent my way.

I have a male pitt bull who is four years old (please look past the breed), and his name is Romeo. Romeo has lived with my parents for the past 3 years because I now live in an apartment that is too small for him. My parents also had two dogs of their own, an older female Shephard mix and a smaller black mutt named Max. Since Romeo was about 2 years old, he has shown serious aggression toward Max, the other male. A few times over the years, Romeo has gotten through the blockades set in place to keep them apart and got a hold of Max. He had the opportunity to kill, but never did. Just shook him up a bit. But yesterday, my father came home to find Max in a pool of blood and Romeo standing over him-- not aggressive at that time, possibly because Max was no longer fighting back??-- and took him immediately to the vet. Turns out that Romeo had severed Max's jugular, and within a few hours, Max passed away.

The issues here are many. First of all, Max was the only THING (animal, human, child, anything) that has ever Romeo showed any aggression towards. Is it possible it was just an 'alpha male' thing and will never resurface?? Also, if we were to give him to a shelter, either they would immediately put him down or someone would adopt him with the knowledge of his past and based on his breed put him in a ring to fight other dogs.

Romeo is a wonderful dog except for this. But its a big 'except'. I got him when he was 2 weeks old and hand fed him every three hours for months until he got stronger. This is tearing us all apart and some advice from an outside source would be greatly appreciated. Thanks so much.

This is a fairly common occurance with a pit bull. Pit bulls will mature at different ages. Pit bull people call that "turning on". When a pit bull first turns on they may attack other dogs, especially the same sex, but may not kill the dog. They often stop their attack when the other dog gives up. As they continue to mature they may not stop until the other dog is killed. It isn't really an alpha thing, the dog is only doing what he has been bred to do. They will learn and gain confidence with each attack. When a pit bull has turned on they will need a lot more exercise than before. If they do not get the exercise thay may "go stale" another term used by pit bull breeders. When a pit bull goes stale they will loose interest in many things they were once interested in but will look for a chance for confrontation. He will mature more and will be more relaxed later.

Many times a blockade will not stop a determined pit bull, they have been known to tear through a closed door or the wall beside the door. Now since there isn't a male dog in the house he probably will not attack the female especially if she is a settled older dog. If you decide to crate the dog please buy a crate made for pit bulls. They can and will destroy most crates.
A wire crate will not usually do for a pit bull. Some pit bulls will destroy them completely.

Good luck with your dog. He should not be a danger to the older female but should be watched for any aggressive nature other than play.

 

[taratippy]

Can I just say please listen to the people on THIS site and not the UK based one you also posted on. This is a dog aggressive dog it does not mean it needs being pts because it will then go on to kill people. The people on here are more aware of pitbulls than anyone in the UK.

Oh and well done guys :hail: Im so glad to see this post here and getting responsible answers instead of hysterical nonsense.