Need advice on COME command

[Ellebear]

Hi all,
I have a nine month old schipperke who is very reluctant to come.
I've tried many, many different methods of training him including the happy-recall, crying, and bribing. He seems to quickly learn to evade these and I'm literally at the end of my lead.
I have him on a permanent long lead, which isn't very helpful as he's learned to pick it up and run with it, and it's also destructive inside of the house.
We've had less accidents recently, but the dog still refuses to learn the come command.
He understands when he's in the house to come as soon as I call him, he understands when he's outside and I can catch him easily, but otherwise, we're stuck chasing him, which can be very very dangerous.
Can anyone suggest something to get this dog to come?

 

[RedyreRottweilers]

First of all, think about your dog refusing to come to you, while you are looking in a mirror.

Do you look like someone you want to run up to?

Dogs like this should NEVER be given the chance to make a mistake on the recall. You likely need more help than can be offered here.

 

[Maxy24]

until the dog is 99% perfect on a long line he should not be off leash or else he'll learn not to come. I would try to teach a new word, maybe "here" or whatever else you want. If she has a good recall inside you just need to retrain it for outside. If you want to keep your current command for inside that's fine but I would use a new word for outside.
When you want him to come make yourself really interesting, make some noise so he looks your way (NOT the command) then run away from him, roll on the ground, run in circles...anything that makes you look like fun to a dog (and nuts to your neighbors). Once the dog begins coming for you say the command but don't stop whatever you were doing. When he gets to you give a treat or play a game with a toy (only if this interests her) and stay happy then let her go again. NEVER recall her to end her time outside or she'll learn that coming is a punishing activity.
Don't use the command until you are SURE the dog will come. OS if you are going to see if rolling on the ground will work don't say "here" first because you don't know if the rolling will work, she might ignore you.
make sure there is always a reward that HE really enjoys and that coming when called never means that he is going to be punished, given a bath or brought inside, when you need to do those things just go get him.

So your first battle will be finding what you can do or what noise you can make that will make your pup come running.

 

[Ellebear]

Alright, I'll start using the here command instead. My question is, how do I get him inside?
I live on a farm, so he has a lot of land to run around on, which makes catching him very, very difficult. On top of that, he likes playing the "I run, you chase me game"
How do I go about fixing this?
Thanks for the advice.
I've been through my weight in dog training books, and none of them are very helpful as to what I can do with him.
He's very reliant with the long lead, but if he's on a short lead or off lead, he's gone.

 

[lizzybeth727]

He's probably associated being off leash with running away from you - cause whenever he's off leash (or on a short lead - if the leash is not in your hand or tied down it means he's "off leash") you're going to run and chase him, which is really rewarding for him (and for most dogs).

For now, you'll have to keep him on a long line leash (with the leash in your hand) at all times. While he's outside, every time he's outside, bring some really good treats or a really special toy, and call him to you every few minutes. When he comes (even if you have to "reel" him in with the leash), make it a big deal and give him lots or treats or play with the toy. Then let him go again. This will teach him that when you call, he gets all kinds of good stuff, AND he gets to go play again! It's a win-win situation, for both of you.

Eventually, he'll get to the point where no matter what he's doing, as soon as you call him, he AUTOMATICALLY stops what he's doing and runs to you as fast as he can. When he does this 100% of the time, every day for at least a week, then you can TRY letting him off leash. Take the leash off and immediately call him to you - and give him lots of treats, make it just as rewarding as a long-distance recall. Do this several times, and call him only when he's not too interested in something else (NOT when he's chasing a rabbit or something). If you can call him while he's looking at you, that's great too. You just want to change the association, so that even when he's off leash he learns that when you call him he WANTS to come to you.

 

[Ellebear]

Okay, that makes more sense. =) How do I get him to "go" when he's come already?
He seems to relate being next to me with getting treats, thus meaning he won't leave my side until we go back to the house.

 

[lizzybeth727]

That's good!

I just give my dog a release word - like "ok", "done", whatever - and then after you say that word, don't give him any attention until you want to do another recall. Look away, walk around your yard, just completely pretend like he's not there. Pretty soon he'll figure out that he's not getting any more treats after you give him the release word, and he'll figure out how to amuse himself again.

Let us know how it goes!

 

[Ellebear]

Alright!
Thank you VERY much!!
I'll definitely try them.

I've tried a bunch of different books on training, but none of them have helped with the progress.
Maybe I was just taking the wrong approach.
Which confuses me, as I've taught two other dogs to come, and they're very reliant off lead. o_o
But thanks for the advice, and I'll be sure to get back to you when I've tried it!

 

[lizzybeth727]

Have you read "Outwitting Dogs" or "The Other End of the Leash"?

 

[mrandrei]

Use TREATS!!! I think the best way to teach your dog to consistently come to you is to use treats.

 

[adojrts]

I train a recall a bit differently than most folks, but having said that I have tried all the other methods and for me I like this one the best with the best results.
I use a clicker, but you don't have to, but mark the desired behaviour (the recall) with Yes!!
I also never give the recall a name until it is solid, I don't want my dogs to learn at any point that they can ignore my voice.
And trust me, I have also made all the usual mistakes with a recall and with the same results, a dog that doesn't come.
I start in the house, everytime my dog looks at me I click, say Yes! and give a great reward. At first I do have very high rewards on me or near by in the house. The dogs quickly start paying attention to what I am doing and where I am going, incase I might reward them (at first it's a high rate of rewards). If at anytime the dog starts to offer eye contact and starts to follow me around, reward. The advice of giving a 'done or free' command is very important as already stated.
I then do restrained recalls at meal times. I also try to give them the reward before they sit, because then you would be rewarding the sit and not the recall.
I then take them outside to a fenced area with no other dogs and min distractions. Turn them loose with a 'done', the dogs always bomb off, I wander around watching them. The second they look at me, I say Yes!!, typically the dog/pup then comes flying to me, knowing they are going to get a reward. Give reward, release, continue to wander around again waiting for them to look at me. It doesn't take long for them to stay near me often walking with me in a heel position for rewards. Note: Do Not have the rewards in your hands, you are not bribing or luring the dog, but rewarding when they offer the correct behaviour. I only give it a name when the dog/pup is 100% reliable on the recall.
Its the same with the 'keep away game', dogs are great at this, but it is also a game that dogs play with each other.
I teach them that by coming to me (reward) and allowing me to touch them (reward). I never chase them until I know I can have them come to me when asked and touch them, then I turn it into a game on my terms with HUGE rewards. Another way to combat the 'keep away game' is to train a Sit/Stay. Before reaching for them, but that can have some problems if the dog/pup scoots backwards from you.
I also teach a 'hand target' for recalls again with highly valued rewards that the dog can't see or know that you have on you.
I too live on a farm, but my dogs are not allowed to be out (unless in the fenced backyard) without me.
The key to training is to not allow a dog to self reward themselves and learning to ignore us. If you control the resources you control the training and control the dog. Therefore until the behaviours are solid, we must control everything that they do, including free time of bombing around on the farm.

Hope that makes some sense, if it doesn't let me know.

Lynn

 

[DanL]

One note about using "come" vs "here"- say both words. Try to make "come" sound happy- it's very hard. Come is a harsh word and it's hard to say it without it sounding like a correction. With "here" you can raise your voice pitch and make it a happy word.

When I train recalls, I make the dog coming to me be the best thing that can ever happen. Lots of rewards, praise, toys, treats. It doesn't take them long to figure out that returning to you is a good thing. Both Daisy and Gunnar will take off like a rocket towards me when I call them.

 

[rosesmom]

When I was training mine to come. Every single time she did, I rewarded her with food. She had that one down pretty quick.