Natural is better?

[Doberluv]

the only vegatables and grains "natural" for any canine to eat would be partially predigested in the stomach of whatever they caught...

since grinding is not the same as predigesting, having those grains and such in the kibble...the body is not properly developed to break down those things in such state...

I think that the ancestors of dogs were dogs....some kind of small, dog-like mammal. There's a lot of evidence that dogs' ancestors come from a very loose, semi solitary, but social animal. And maybe their ancestors' ancestors were wolves. There's a lot of controversy on that subject. At any rate, dogs have been dogs for a long time and what is natural to them IMO is what humans have been feeding them (since they've lived with or around humans for a minimum of 15,000 years) and what they could scavange by way of their own talent for scavanging and from moving around from place to place, random animals joining a small group and then leaving frequently.

They and other wild dogs have been more a scavanging animal than a hunter for a long time. Therefore, I believe that although their physical and morphilogical make-up (jaws, teeth, digestion etc) may be more like that of a carnivore, behaviorally, they are an omnivore and their systems are suited for other things besides meat....or just meat. I think they're somewhat flexible in other words. Furthermore, what materials can not be "broken down," is not the entire importance. There is some benefit IMO to some degree of non-digestable material.

Many kinds of wild dogs are seen eating other things besides other animals....fruits, grains etc. My own dogs and I'll bet yours too, will graze on a little green grass. They help themselves to my raspberries and a few other things they find on my property. If given a chance, they'll gobble up a piece of bread or pasta that drops on the floor. They are never the worse for wear. They'll eat dairy things, eggs, you name it. I totally agree that dogs need meat and lots of it. But I also believe that the fact that they eat all kinds of things IS what is natural and has been for a long, long time.

 

[finder]

Yes Natural is better.Natural foods increase the lifespan of dogs

 

[Romy]

I think that the ancestors of dogs were dogs....some kind of small, dog-like mammal. There's a lot of evidence that dogs' ancestors come from a very loose, semi solitary, but social animal. And maybe their ancestors' ancestors were wolves. There's a lot of controversy on that subject. At any rate, dogs have been dogs for a long time and what is natural to them IMO is what humans have been feeding them (since they've lived with or around humans for a minimum of 15,000 years) and what they could scavange by way of their own talent for scavanging and from moving around from place to place, random animals joining a small group and then leaving frequently.

They and other wild dogs have been more a scavanging animal than a hunter for a long time. Therefore, I believe that although their physical and morphilogical make-up (jaws, teeth, digestion etc) may be more like that of a carnivore, behaviorally, they are an omnivore and their systems are suited for other things besides meat....or just meat. I think they're somewhat flexible in other words. Furthermore, what materials can not be "broken down," is not the entire importance. There is some benefit IMO to some degree of non-digestable material.

Many kinds of wild dogs are seen eating other things besides other animals....fruits, grains etc. My own dogs and I'll bet yours too, will graze on a little green grass. They help themselves to my raspberries and a few other things they find on my property. If given a chance, they'll gobble up a piece of bread or pasta that drops on the floor. They are never the worse for wear. They'll eat dairy things, eggs, you name it. I totally agree that dogs need meat and lots of it. But I also believe that the fact that they eat all kinds of things IS what is natural and has been for a long, long time.

Looking at my own dogs condition and behavior, this makes a lot of sense.

For as long as humans have been eating grain, dogs have been eating it. Now, I don't know for sure the exact temps, but I have been told that the temperature kibble is cooked is lower than what we would cook human grain based foods (pastas, breads, etc.) at to make it digestible, which is where a lot of dogs have problems getting all the nutrition possible from a grain based kibble. I am allergic to wheat myself, but Robert isn't. We added an extra peanut butter sandwich (with sugar/salt free non hydrogenated PB) to Strider's daily diet because it is economical and he really could use the extra weight. A lot of borzoi breeders have been telling us that in order to keep on a little extra weight, especially if you have a very active animal, you need carbs. And that pasta/bread for people was a good source of quality carbohydrates. It's actually been working really well for him.

Of course, every dog is different, and is going to thrive with different things depending on their own background and what they are adapted to eating. My brother feeds an almost totally vegetarian diet to his akita, which works great for that individual dog. Not so great for every other dog out there. His is based around Avoderm's vegetarian kibble, home cooked, and he rotates one of the diamond natural kibbles into the diet every other bag for variety. Ranger always looks/smells great and acts healthy, he has no health issues at all. Not every dog would thrive on that diet however.

It's interesting to see Striders breeder's dogs and how they thrive on the "Dairy Farmer Diet".

Their family has been working hard at becoming self sustaining. They do it all except grow their own grain because Arizona is not the ideal climate for that sort of thing. Anyway, the dogs are fed raw chicken, raw goat's milk, and goat meat plus boiled rice and scraps. I think the raw goat milk is why Strider's guts are so bomb proof, getting started in life on that stuff must have inoculated them with probiotics big time.

I think a lot of dogs throughout history probably ate milk and eggs as part of their daily diets. Those are two things that would have been available every single day on farms, and are not easily preserved for future use. I know it was always two protein sources we always had extra for the animals when I was growing up. We always had a bucket of milk for the pigs, and a bucket for the dogs after the calves had drank their bottles, and there was always plenty of eggs. Each dog got at least an egg a day, if not more. Then you have farm vermin, like rats, rabbits, foxes, etc. if they could catch were probably eaten too.

 

[colliewog]

Didnt dogs develop on our left overs. Our ancestors fed the early dogs basically things that they wouldn't eat. And they developed to live off of that for thousands of years. And now, today we feed things like free range bison and blue berries! I just wonder what is actually more "natural" for a dog to be eating.

What do you think?

They were fed left overs of what the people were eating or possibly even sharing the meal with them, not things that people wouldn't eat. Yes, they would toss them bones to chew on or the skin, fat, etc. from certain meats, but that wasn't their sole sustenance. 4-D animals were disposed of, or at worst left for wild animals to "dispose of" ... they weren't brought home to feed the family pet.

A lot of the foods today are gimmicks. From Beneful (with all the pretty colors to attract the dogs??) to Taste of the Wild (with their smoked meats. Is that really necessary?). That's because people want it, not because the dogs need it. Dogs need quality ingredients ... the rest is just 'fluff.

 

[Lizmo]

What Zoom said X 100. Table left overs back then WAS very good. Probably alot like a raw diet for a dog today.

Just to throw out something else, if you look at dogs that are fed Kibble 'n Bits, SD, *insert bad food here*, there coats are usually terrible. I have plenty of friend's dogs whose coat/breath/teeth are absolutely horrid. The coat is oily, the teeth are yellow, sometimes they are over weight or have tumors, and some have really bad skin problems. But do they think that it might be the food? Not usually.

Even our vet's dog's coat doesn't seem that great.

 

[Southpaw]

I think you see the results in a dog fed Purina vs. a dog that's fed TOTW or something. You don't need the internet or TV to tell you which one is better... it's usually pretty obvious.

My friend's dog is on SD and he has all these allergies and skin issues, it just floors me that they don't even think to try a different food. Every time I hear about his latest rash, I can't help but wonder how his health issues would be improved if they had him on a grain-free diet or switched him to SOMEthing different.

 

[Romy]

They were fed left overs of what the people were eating or possibly even sharing the meal with them, not things that people wouldn't eat. Yes, they would toss them bones to chew on or the skin, fat, etc. from certain meats, but that wasn't their sole sustenance. 4-D animals were disposed of, or at worst left for wild animals to "dispose of" ... they weren't brought home to feed the family pet.

This x100

We went blueberry picking. By the time we got home and sorted, washed, cooked, etc. them there were a number of slightly over ripe ones that were just a bit...juicier than I would want to eat. We gave them to the dogs and chickens.

That's a far cry from peanut hulls. A starving dog might eat peanut hulls and chicken feet to stop the hunger pangs, but it's not going to thrive on that diet.

 

[dobesgalore]

I've often wondered about this. Strider, and my boss' old wolf hybrid both pick/ed berries and eat/ate them (the hybrid lived to 17 yrs. old).

It's really funny, I take the dogs out to the pasture and after zooming around Strider runs over to the blackberries and salal and he will graze on berries for hours if we let him. He picks them off with his lips.:rofl1: It's exactly like how my boss' old hybrid used to eat them.

He also will pick my summer squash and apples, and eat them. I don't think he can digest it very well. It comes out looking like everything else he eats, but maybe he needs the roughage and craves it?

Also, is cow poop actually bad for them to eat? Charlie has no interest in picking berries, but he LOVES cow pie. When I look at how inefficient the cow's digestive process is and how much vegetable matter comes out softened up but intact, really it's probably good for him as long as we keep him wormed.

I don't know about the cow pop, but ours have always loved horse poop. I have seen them gulp it down.

We also had a tomato plant growing in a bucket on a stump in the front yard a couple of years ago, and Coors picked off every tomato on the plant.

 

[JessLough]

What I am saying is that his problems are not due to feeding crap food. So I am not so sure that a dog feed crap food and having issues have to do with each other. It would make since to me though.

lol yah i figured what I was saying made sense to me but wasn't worded best. That was the point sorta. Most people say that feeding the "crap food" causes all these medical problems and they won't live as long..... which to me is just crap. All my pets that I have/have ever had has proved this theory wrong, but whatever floats other people's boats lol

 

[JessLough]

I think you see the results in a dog fed Purina vs. a dog that's fed TOTW or something. You don't need the internet or TV to tell you which one is better... it's usually pretty obvious.

My friend's dog is on SD and he has all these allergies and skin issues, it just floors me that they don't even think to try a different food. Every time I hear about his latest rash, I can't help but wonder how his health issues would be improved if they had him on a grain-free diet or switched him to SOMEthing different.

Rosey was on TOTW, Evo, California Natural, whatever other food brands there are. She dropped weight very quickly, and her skin was horrid and was losing fur. So...it's not that easy for all dogs.

 

[babymomma]

Well, We could all live off of junk food, But how healthy would it be for our bodies?
Pedgree, iams, all the crap foods are doggy junkfood. They can live long lives on it. But they wont be as healthy.

 

[finder]

My philosophy is very simple. You, as the primary care giver, are responsible for the welfare of your family, both human and canine. It is your responsibility to keep your family healthy. Providing balanced, nutritious food that is as natural, and additive and pesticide free as possible for our dogs is our our concerns.
If the natural foods meet the above condition it is ok