Nancy Grace has gone too far

[Miakoda]

And first, I apologize for all the posts on end, but I was trying to address a specific point with each one.

Second, for those who tried to say this isn't a Nancy Grace issue, in fact, this thread was started to talk about how much of an ingorant bigot this lady is, so in truth, it got off topic by talking about other things such as BSL & death to all "pit bulls."

Third, I would like to say that I am NOT defending these 4 dogs in this scenario. But here's what I would like to say on this whole incident (I wrote this on another forum & crossposted here):

Of course I strongly believe there is more to the story & we will never know the truth.

But here are some of my thoughts:

First off, although I don't live in a trailer, I have been in several & friends who live in them & I can tell you that every little sound made is heard from room to room. They are not soundproof in the least (especially the older ones like the one in which this took place). So if the father was standing just outside like he claimed to have been, how in the hell did he not hear anything? How did he miss the screams, yells, & cries that you know his son was putting out? How did he not hear any bumps or thuds that would come from a bunch of dogs dragging a nearly 2yr old boy out of a bedroom, down the way, & into the kitchen? How did he not hear any barking or growling? Hell, I live in a 1700 sq. ft. house, & I can hear my son crying in the living room (which is on the backside of the house), when I am standing in the front yard talking to a neighbor. And when my dogs are on a raccoon, oppossum, or even a field mouse, I hear the barking, yipping, & growling that goes on just from that one dog, not to mention all the others.

And then supposedly there was another person he was outside talking to. You mean to tell me this person didn't hear a thing either?

And what about the fact that the father stated that he never let/lets the dogs inside, but yet in just this one "coincidental" tragedy, he lets them all inside, together & loose, & then just walks outside & shuts the door behind him?

And also when the police arrived, they expected a pack of angry, aggressive dogs yet they were met with a pack of "happy" dogs with wagging tails. Even the vet said they seemed "friendly" & made no aggressive maneuvers or growls. Now, don't get me wrong here....those dogs did something to that child & I'm NOT defending them (I would've killed them with my bare hands if one had attacked my child), but I find it strange nonetheless.

It's just all way to suspicious to me. And not to mention that either the media never got all their facts together (do they ever?), or the father changed his story, because I've read many different articles on it & some said the father was outside getting groceries from the car & was only gone a few seconds, another said he was outside talking to his landlord for only 5 minutes, & yet the latest is that he was outside talking to his boss for 10 minutes. So what is the truth?

And I sure as hell hope they do a THOROUGH autopsy on this child, as I truly wonder about the father's involvement in this whole scenario....more than just the leaving a pack of dogs loose around a 22 month old baby.

 

[chinchow]

I'm going to stop now, because it's getting ugly and because I don't have the time to argue further. I would like to say that while I understand the source of the strong emotions I see here, I very much dislike the tone of violent moral righteousness I'm seeing from some people here who either own pit bulls or feel compelled to defend them. It's ugly, it's bullying and it's wrong. There is a lot of room to argue this issue; it's not a simple choice between good and evil.

However, there are arguments clearly against Pit Bulls, all the same...

Doesn't seem very fair to point out the people who know the breed for what it is, and not what people see on tv.

 

[Miakoda]

I'm going to stop now, because it's getting ugly and because I don't have the time to argue further. I would like to say that while I understand the source of the strong emotions I see here, I very much dislike the tone of violent moral righteousness I'm seeing from some people here who either own pit bulls or feel compelled to defend them. It's ugly, it's bullying and it's wrong. There is a lot of room to argue this issue; it's not a simple choice between good and evil.

Then call me confused, but isn't "bullying" what you are also doing then? You are TELLING us that "pit bulls" are more dangerous than other dogs, & that "pit bulls" are responsible for almost all the attacks out there, & telling us "pit bulls" should be banned/killed/exterminated. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's ok for you to voice your opinions & your contempt about people who own these dogs, but it's not ok for us to defend them? Because you know the truth & we are just a bunch of empty headed people on an emotional rollercoaster? And moral righteousness? That was coming from you.

I agree that there is a lot ot argue here, but you are no different than Nancy Grace. To you, an argument consists of us sitting down, listening, & keeping our mouths shut while you tell us the "truth" about pit bulls. Doesn't sound like much of a debate is being allowed there...is there.

 

[MomOf7]

Any dog is a potential hazard. MHO
Some breeds are more naturally friendly while others are more aggressive. Then there are dogs who dont fall in thier breeds temperments.
Your all arguing the trivial. Every dog is a individual and a possible Hazard if put in the right position.

So there

 

[Amstaffer]

As for Nancy Grace...I don't think she'll be on the air much longer...the woman is an absolute idiot, unintelligent and unable to think through any discussion. I didn't hear what she had to say about Pits simply because we don't watch her in our house...her show is one of three that we do not allow on because they tend to teach young people to "engage mouth while brain is in neutral".

Everyone have a great day..

<Stepping down from my soapbox>

God! I hope you are right but two very successful people use the same methods or appeal to a similar audience (Rush and Jerry Springer...)

Most people (I am sorry to say) don't want logical discussion that is informative they want verbal combat and to have their narrow mines reinforced.

 

[Amstaffer]

That's enough to convince me that there is a problem with this breed...

Or maybe the bad owners? Why do Pit Bull haters refuse to say "hey, maybe it is the humans fault" it seems so logical to me but yes so hard for some.

Serious question, is it because as humans we fear some quilt by association or is it a human superiority complex that people have that must place the blame some where besides human..... I am not aiming this at you BobskB, but it is a question I have never been able get answered.


For every story you told of bad Pit Bulls....I could tell you 10 of super friendly Pit Bulls

 

[Amstaffer]

This one is too long so I am spliting it in half. Very informative and very true. Think about it................


"Which breeds are the most dangerous?

Which ones bite without warning? Which ones are likely to attack unprovoked? Which breeds have unstable temperaments, and can't be trusted?

Quick - which breeds come to mind? Are you thinking Pitbulls, Presas, Rottweilers? Dobermans or Chows? German Shepherds or Akitas?

Wrong. In fact, really wrong.

Contrary to popular belief, these breeds are not the most dangerous. In fact, not a single animal welfare organization on the planet will give you a list of dangerous breeds, but we will..............

Just The Facts

Fact: The CDC has stopped reporting bite statistics by breed, as these numbers are driven by eyewitness reports, and are very often inaccurate. Why did the CDC stop? Because misidentification of breed is extremely common, making eyewitness reports an unreliable source.

In her book, Fatal Dog Attacks, author Karen Delise has studied the statistics and the stories behind these rare but deadly events. A top expert in this specialized field, she has concluded that a number of factors are present in a fatal attack.

Fact: On average, there are fewer than 30 deaths annually in the U.S. due to fatal dog maulings. Statistically, these tragedies are incredibly rare, as the dog population of 79 million. The stats on deaths by breed are available, as there are so few, and yes, Pitbulls and Rottweilers are on the list. But so are other breeds you might not imagine.

But what the media and politicians don't tell you is that the breeds on this list are driven by breed popularity, and that over the years, the types of breeds on this list have shifted.

So why are these breeds on the list? The answer is this - breed popularity drive the stats, but perhaps even more intangible is that breed popularity with irresponsible dog owners is an even bigger factor.

The #1 Factor

The absolute, number one factor that determines whether or not a dog will become dangerous is............... ownership.

And in compiling this list of dangerous breeds, you'll note they all share one trait in common - they are all human.

That's right, humans are most responsible for dangerous dogs. Humans are responsible for creating the circumstances and behavior that lead to dog bites or maulings. Get it right, Bubba - Humans.

Top Ten Most Dangerous Breeds

10. Criminal Dog Owners - They vary in size, shape, color and creed. Whether urban or rural, they thrive in environments where crime does pay.

This breed may deliberately train dogs to be human aggressive. This breed has been known to shoot dogs for fun it. They fight dogs and use sweet tempered dogs as bait. Here in the New York area - they've been known to feed dogs ground up glass and gun power to toughen them up - you know-In case the police kick the front door - they're out the back - and the dogs are in between.

9. Irresponsible and Ignorant Dog Owners

Characterized by a complete lack of common sense and or manners, these dog owners come in three distinct varieties - Dumb, Dumber and Plain Stupid.

However they do share the same breed traits, like

1. Complete disregard for local leash or pooper scooper laws
2. Stubborn, self-centered rudeness
3. The inability to see the potential consequences for their behavior

So here are the three types:

Dumb- When Snowball whines to go out, they throw open the front door and let her out to wander the neighborhood. Snowball is free to poop and pee wherever she likes. And if Snowball should wander into my yard and my dog defends its territory, like many dogs .......we've got a problem.

Dumber- Easy to recognize, this genius nonchalantly walks their dog off leash in the neighborhood, like it's no big deal. WEll in my book - it is a big deal. How would you like it if I let my dog run up to your children off leash. Or run up to any person who may be afraid of dogs. (and BTW - I support off leash space - just not on the block). And it's not OK if your dog takes a dump in my flowerbed, got that?

Plain Stupid- Waaaaay short on common sense - they let their children play unattended with dogs, or let them run up to pet a stranger's dog or get in a strange dog's face.

8. Negligent or Abusive Dog Owners

Like sociopaths who lack basic the human trait of compassion - this all-too-common breed is well known for a lack of care or concern. They are, however, gifted and talented in the areas of neglect or cruelty.

These G & Ts routinely fail to give their animals even the basics of food, water or shelter or fail to provide vet care.

Even beating the dog is OK for these people- it's only a dog. Kick it if it gets in your way, wants food or attention. OK - so cruel and unusual punishment is against law, so giving them the same treatment is out. Too bad.

WOW that was a GREAT POST!! :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail:

 

[Amstaffer]

I will ask the question that I asked before on this thread. When do you punsih the owner, after the dog has already attacked someone?

Not sure I understood you question but I think I'll answer it this way.

You punish the owner of the dog who kills someone just like you punish the owner of a Gun, Car, Knife, Collasped Deck....etc that kills someone.

In a country of 300 million people and 80 million dogs it is amazing that more people don't die from dog attacks. I would like to see how many are killed by Cows, Horses, Pigs etc....

 

[Amstaffer]

Wouldn't your theory allow for the bite percentage to correlate exactly against the abuse percentage? More dogs = more abuse.

Good point but I would argue back that the Pit Bull is abused at a much high rate than other breeds because the "type" that is often drawn to this breed to have four legged "Bling Bling"

 

[travelpet]

God! I hope you are right but two very successful people use the same methods or appeal to a similar audience (Rush and Jerry Springer...)

Most people (I am sorry to say) don't want logical discussion that is informative they want verbal combat and to have their narrow mines reinforced.

That's true. However, these individuals are considered commentators, not news people (which Grace claims to be), they specifically do nothing more than express their opinions (as idiotic as they may be). Whatever you think of them, I don't think much of Limbaugh, they don't claim to give impartial news, they don't claim to do news interviews, etc.

 

[Amstaffer]

not news people (which Grace claims to be), QUOTE]

Tabloid News Person would be a good title for her or maybe Information Sensationalist

 

[travelpet]

Travel-The problem is GSDs are already on the list. They are banned but Mr. Bob doesnt seem to want to listen to me and realize that his little pup might be banned soon...Some people just dont get it.

I realize that and I know from my vet that the GS is the one breed of dog he does NOT want to treat because they are so unpredictable and have a very bad history...probably left over from so much inbreeding back in the 60s and 70s. The second most dangerous...take a guess...most people don't know it is the cocker spaniel.

I actually had experience with one at the no-kill where I used to volunteer. He seemed so sweet and he would beg with those huge brown eyes of his and most of the time he was fine, but then without warning he would suddenly turn and attack. In fairness to the sweet angel (and he was most of the time), when he died they found that the problem was medical. I'm not going to tell you what it was, it is too gross, but enough to say he had no control over it. But, my vet says they are a dangerous breed...again, probably due to the over inbreeding of the cutie pies back when they were the cute breed everyone wanted and unscrupulous breeders saw a chance to make BIG money with no regard for what they were doing to the breed.

I used to work 2 wks every summer as a volunteer at my favorite no-kill. I had 2 pit mixes (littermates) and one purebred AMSTAF that I sponsored at the shelter and it was my time to spend with them. None of them scared me and the one littermate (not my sponsor) who was said to be aggressive and dangerous lived by herself in a pitbull area of the shelter. I remember one day going to her run and watching her. My friend who lived there was deathly afraid of the dog and wouldn't even go near her run...she just didn't strike me as dangerous but rather timid and shy. When we went to feed the dogs, I asked if I could feed the dogs in the pitbull area. For insurance purposes (I guess) I was told I could but had to go with one of their professional handlers. I had a great time, the dogs were glad to see me (knew I had the food) and I'd brought some treats that I'd gotten to give my girls (with permission of course). I went to my girls' littermate's run and the handler asked if I wanted to go into the run and feed her. I was hesitant, I admit because I knew she'd be surrendered for aggressiveness. But he told me to go ahead, she was shy and as long as I didn't rush and talk softly to her, she was perfectly gentle. I couldn't get her to come to me, I had to walk to the center of the run (she went to the back corner) and put the food down and walk out, and she approached the bowl, sniffed it and ate, watching me the whole time. Then I took out some treats and called to her, she wouldn't come to me but eyed the treats...I threw them into the run to her. She finally trusted the situation enough to approach them, but she didn't eat them, she hid them. The handler told me she was very smart and didn't want to eat her treats then because she'd just eaten, but later she go get them and eat them. Every day for the next week we spent an hour together while she ate. I could tell she missed human companionship. Less than a year later, I got a call from the shelter, they wanted me to know that she'd be mauled and killed by two German Shepherds that had dug their way into her run. Bobsk8, don't you dare tell me how dangerous pits are...just make sure you manage to keep your dog under control and stop telling others how to raise theirs. You really don't have the wherewithall to advise others.

 

[travelpet]

not news people (which Grace claims to be), QUOTE]

Tabloid News Person would be a good title for her or maybe Information Sensationalist

How about Misinformation Specialist???:lol-sign:

BTW you have some darling "pet kids" there, you lucky person you.

 

[ToscasMom]

Nancy Grace has been on the air for a long long time already in one form or another. She sells. Her ratings are super because that's the kind of show people love to watch. Kind of Springer for better dressed people--without throwing food around.

 

[travelpet]

Nancy Grace has been on the air for a long long time already in one form or another. She sells. Her ratings are super because that's the kind of show people love to watch. Kind of Springer for better dressed people--without throwing food around.

May I ask where you get your information? My sources tell me her ratings are the lowest for the time slot and her show is scheduled for timeslot move to try and salvage some of the costs. But you can expect it will be gone by mid-March. My source is in the broadcast industry on a rival cable network.

 

[ToscasMom]

I've been hearing that woman has no ratings since the 90s. Let's face it. People love sensationalism. They love to hate shows that they love to watch, you know what I mean? She won't go away. I will bet money on it. Like I said, she's Springer without the food fight. Frankly I think she is better off with her own show than hopping around as a guest "expert" on all the shows. The woman's face has been everywhere, especially if there was a sensational court case going on. She's got the Court TV following people wherever she goes, and I am willing to bet money that her face will not disappear. She's crass. She's miserable. She's opinionated. She's just one more miserable, insulting media meanie that people love to expose themselves to.

I used the Mediabistro ranker. As I am not connected to the big time like you are. jk honest.

 

[ToscasMom]

Worse yet, even if they do dump her, she will show up someplace else.:lol-sign:

 

[Amstaffer]

BTW you have some darling "pet kids" there, you lucky person you.

Thanks

 

[MysticRealm]

I haven't read much of the post but I have HATED Nancy Grace since the very first time I saw her on Larry King debating the guy who killed his pregnant wife then dumped her in the river. She is so dumb. No one is allowed to have an opinion unless it's her opinion. She doesn't use her brain and uses solely her heart and her heart is pretty stupid to. She is a lawyer and when talking about cases she hears about and debates on tv she needs to throw her heart out the window and use her brain b/c she is making it seem like what she is saying is fact when it isn't, it's all just what she wants to beleive which is incorrect to represent as being fact.
I NEVER watch her b/c I can't beleive anyone could be on tv and be that dumb (though I shouldn 't be surprised with all the absolute bull there is on tv!)

 

[Bobsk8]

I realize that and I know from my vet that the GS is the one breed of dog he does NOT want to treat because they are so unpredictable and have a very bad history...probably left over from so much inbreeding back in the 60s and 70s. The second most dangerous...take a guess...most people don't know it is the cocker spaniel.

I actually had experience with one at the no-kill where I used to volunteer. He seemed so sweet and he would beg with those huge brown eyes of his and most of the time he was fine, but then without warning he would suddenly turn and attack. In fairness to the sweet angel (and he was most of the time), when he died they found that the problem was medical. I'm not going to tell you what it was, it is too gross, but enough to say he had no control over it. But, my vet says they are a dangerous breed...again, probably due to the over inbreeding of the cutie pies back when they were the cute breed everyone wanted and unscrupulous breeders saw a chance to make BIG money with no regard for what they were doing to the breed.

I used to work 2 wks every summer as a volunteer at my favorite no-kill. I had 2 pit mixes (littermates) and one purebred AMSTAF that I sponsored at the shelter and it was my time to spend with them. None of them scared me and the one littermate (not my sponsor) who was said to be aggressive and dangerous lived by herself in a pitbull area of the shelter. I remember one day going to her run and watching her. My friend who lived there was deathly afraid of the dog and wouldn't even go near her run...she just didn't strike me as dangerous but rather timid and shy. When we went to feed the dogs, I asked if I could feed the dogs in the pitbull area. For insurance purposes (I guess) I was told I could but had to go with one of their professional handlers. I had a great time, the dogs were glad to see me (knew I had the food) and I'd brought some treats that I'd gotten to give my girls (with permission of course). I went to my girls' littermate's run and the handler asked if I wanted to go into the run and feed her. I was hesitant, I admit because I knew she'd be surrendered for aggressiveness. But he told me to go ahead, she was shy and as long as I didn't rush and talk softly to her, she was perfectly gentle. I couldn't get her to come to me, I had to walk to the center of the run (she went to the back corner) and put the food down and walk out, and she approached the bowl, sniffed it and ate, watching me the whole time. Then I took out some treats and called to her, she wouldn't come to me but eyed the treats...I threw them into the run to her. She finally trusted the situation enough to approach them, but she didn't eat them, she hid them. The handler told me she was very smart and didn't want to eat her treats then because she'd just eaten, but later she go get them and eat them. Every day for the next week we spent an hour together while she ate. I could tell she missed human companionship. Less than a year later, I got a call from the shelter, they wanted me to know that she'd be mauled and killed by two German Shepherds that had dug their way into her run. Bobsk8, don't you dare tell me how dangerous pits are...just make sure you manage to keep your dog under control and stop telling others how to raise theirs. You really don't have the wherewithall to advise others.

I guess they aren't really dangerous. It's probably people just making up stories about these cute little dogs like this one

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/story.jsp?story=713548