Nailing Cesar Millan With Tough, Truthful, Appropriate Questions - It's About Time

[SevenSins]

Just popping in to say that Rubygirl, if you think dogs with serious aggression issues, particularly those related to fear/defensive aggression, that "aren't helped" by positive methods is going to be "cured" by leash jerks, hitting, kicking, "assertive touch", alpha rolling, and other physical punishment... your knowledge of dog behavior and behavior modification in general is laughable.

I want to see Rubygirl (or CM for that matter) "assertive touch" a dog like my HA/reactive male AB, who would happily "assertive touch" them back. Might make them think twice about the whole PR thing.

And that is said as someone who grew up with the archaic Koehler "method" (though I've never used the more extreme "methods" Koehler wrote about, for the record) and employs training tools like e-collars and prongs. Hell, I'm sure if people went back and read my older posts on other forums they'd see that I used to loathe all PR training because of my own...again, archaic...viewpoints as far as ever training with food was concerned. I still dislike some PR training; I'm not a big fan of training that never involves correction or allows the dog to decide when it wants to quit an exercise, for example. But seeing some of the amazing things people do with PR trained dogs and the behaviors that some of these dogs learn? And how quickly they learn them? Even I can't just say "that method of training is worthless and only used by furmommies." Nope, sorry, my head isn't that far up my ass and now I'M trying to incorporate more and more PR into my training as I learn.

There is a video on Youtube somewhere that I can't seem to find...I think Danefied posted it or showed me at some point, of...if I recall, a Terv? Problem solving, involving tubes and tennis balls. It was brilliant. I'd love to see a trainer kick or "assertive touch" a dog into being so relaxed and willfully engaging its mind like that. If someone has any idea as to what video I'm referring to please post it.

 

[elegy]

I am a certified ribbon queen. I adore big pretty ribbons. Once we were down to our last couple of Qs, I admit I planned my trial schedule around the ones that had the best Championship ribbons!

Steve got his last flyball title at our tournament last year and there was one FMX ribbon left over from previous years that was bigger than the rest, so I claimed that one before the tournament even started

I love Luce's APDT championship title ribbons.

 

[Danefied]

Seven, I started a new thread in general dog chat
http://www.chazhound.com/forums/showthread.php?t=186836

 

[adojrts]

As I said. I don't tug on her, she pulls and she has some resistance then she quits pulling.
I would love you to come train my dog with properly reinforced positive association. I would laugh. My dogs not a run of the mill simpleton. She has a mind of her own lol

Just because you dog pulls because of your lack of skill (yes it is a lack of skill and education on your part) doesn't mean proper + reinforcement training doesn't work or can't work. I see dogs every week that are not simpletons, are the so called 'hard' cases and they all have the same thing...........owners with a lack of skill. Teach the owner, teach the dog and the problem is no longer an issue...........oh yeah and with just a simple flat collar and leash.

As for CM, the lack of skill and undertanding flows off the man in a river. Frankly I found the interview very sad, CM dodged the questions because he doesn't know the answers. Simple.

 

[Flyinsbt]

Just because you dog pulls because of your lack of skill (yes it is a lack of skill and education on your part) doesn't mean proper + reinforcement training doesn't work or can't work. I see dogs every week that are not simpletons, are the so called 'hard' cases and they all have the same thing...........owners with a lack of skill. Teach the owner, teach the dog and the problem is no longer an issue...........oh yeah and with just a simple flat collar and leash.

In fact, the dogs with a mind of their own are the easiest dogs to train with operant conditioning, because they'll actually offer behaviors that you can build on.

 

[rubygirl]

I find this all very humorous (obviously). I mean you guys take yourselves SO SERIOUSLY.
You have made assumptions that I kick, slap, choke my dog and I've never said I did. In fact; I've never elaborated on exactly HOW I train my dog.
I love the "it would be humorous to see you correct my dog, he would correct right back" kind of bs. Basically what that says to me is that you don't trust your dog. Efficient training techniques... \sarcasm
One member saying "stick to labs and bull dogs"... I have fostered pretty much every breed under the sun (including St Bernard's, Cane Corsos, German Shepherds, Chihuahuas and Dogos) and I have never once been attacked or bit using the techniques I employ (the techniques that I haven't divulged). I have always been successful.
I have been bit by one Bichon/Maltese but it was in pain from matting and several other issues. We were attempting to groom it...
To whomever stated that "you let your children watch you call people assholes on forums". Who the F*CK said?? Wow. This forum gets better and better with all of the assumptions thrown out there.
You guys are a joke. Get over yourselves.
I have done nothing but help any dog that I come across. I have assisted hundreds *slaps self on own back*
I love dogs and have been very successful thus far. Maybe if I invest in a bunch of hotdogs I can MAYYYYBE become as good as all of you lmao.
Have a really nice evening ladies.

 

[Barbara!]

Do you think we are stupid? On a different forum, you DID say you kick your dog and she has had several "come to Jesus" moments... And you did say you knee'd your dog and that you use a choke chain. (There's kicking and choking, right there.) But to say that positive reinforcement is for mindless dogs that have no actual real problems is idiotic.

You have said that positive reinforcement doesn't work in "more serious" situations. When we asked what those situations were, and you elaborated, we shot down your claims with our own experiences and science. So... Once again, you can't argue logically, you refuse to face fact, and all you do is stomp your feet and claim you're right. Guess what? You're not. I hope you learn something eventually, for the sake of all the dogs you "help".

 

[rubygirl]

Do you think we are stupid? On a different forum, you DID say you kick your dog and she has had several "come to Jesus" moments... And you did say you knee'd your dog and that you use a choke chain. (There's kicking and choking, right there.) But to say that positive reinforcement is for mindless dogs that have no actual real problems is idiotic.

You have said that positive reinforcement doesn't work in "more serious" situations. When we asked what those situations were, and you elaborated, we shot down your claims with our own experiences and science. So... Once again, you can't argue logically, you refuse to face fact, and all you do is stomp your feet and claim you're right. Guess what? You're not. I hope you learn something eventually, for the sake of all the dogs you "help".[/

:lol-sign:

 

[AdrianneIsabel]

It's corsi, plural for corso is corsi. In your vast experience I would expect you to learn that.

 

[Laurelin]

To whomever stated that "you let your children watch you call people assholes on forums". Who the F*CK said?? Wow. This forum gets better and better with all of the assumptions thrown out there.

Yup totally what I said.

Would you call a bunch of people 'a bunch of asshole strangers' in front of your kids?

 

[yoko]

Yup totally what I said.

Of course she would but it's ok because she's high.

 

[JessLough]

/sings because I got high, because I got high, because I got hiiiiigh. I /ends singing

Sorry. I may be drunk. :rofl1:

 

[yoko]

/sings because I got high, because I got high, because I got hiiiiigh. I /ends singing

Sorry. I may be drunk. :rofl1:

Whoa there. High is ok but drunk? You horrible person you!

that would explain the gravy confusion

 

[JessLough]

Lmao.

 

[BostonBanker]

I thought of this thread while reading Dilbert this morning

 

[Danefied]

I thought of this thread while reading Dilbert this morning

LOVE it! And stolen!!

 

[CatStina]

Why on earth is someone who has admitted that she is here to harass and troll people not banned?

 

[Emily]

I find this all very humorous (obviously). I mean you guys take yourselves SO SERIOUSLY.
You have made assumptions that I kick, slap, choke my dog and I've never said I did. In fact; I've never elaborated on exactly HOW I train my dog.
I love the "it would be humorous to see you correct my dog, he would correct right back" kind of bs. Basically what that says to me is that you don't trust your dog. Efficient training techniques... \sarcasm
One member saying "stick to labs and bull dogs"... I have fostered pretty much every breed under the sun (including St Bernard's, Cane Corsos, German Shepherds, Chihuahuas and Dogos) and I have never once been attacked or bit using the techniques I employ (the techniques that I haven't divulged). I have always been successful.
I have been bit by one Bichon/Maltese but it was in pain from matting and several other issues. We were attempting to groom it...
To whomever stated that "you let your children watch you call people assholes on forums". Who the F*CK said?? Wow. This forum gets better and better with all of the assumptions thrown out there.
You guys are a joke. Get over yourselves.
I have done nothing but help any dog that I come across. I have assisted hundreds *slaps self on own back*
I love dogs and have been very successful thus far. Maybe if I invest in a bunch of hotdogs I can MAYYYYBE become as good as all of you lmao.
Have a really nice evening ladies.

You're so funny.

Maybe if you invested in some hot dogs you could figure out to get dogs to do things without kneeing them in the chest. :rofl1:

It's ok, positive reinforcement is just too hard for some people.

You think we don't trust our dogs because we know they would bite you if you smacked them? You couldn't be more wrong. We trust them not to take bullshit like that from someone without standing up for themselves. TBH, you're just proving my point. Not all breeds can or SHOULD take that kind of treatment - but then you'd know that, since you've worked with hundreds of dogs, huh?

Anyhoo, if you smacked or rolled my dog, I would only HOPE she would bite you, or anyone else who treated her like that. One can dream, right?

 

[Doberluv]

Why on earth is someone who has admitted that she is here to harass and troll people not banned?

Maybe keeping her around causes the rest of us to become closer friends. I bet that's the idea.

 

[sassafras]

It's ok, positive reinforcement is just too hard for some people.

Well, it smacks of effort. And empathy. Which is in short supply for some.