my dog is growling and snapping at me..

jamiechew · Mar 30, 2006

and I am at my wits end.. we have had Jamie since he was 8 weeks old. we saw the parents, the father is a shih tzu, very loving, the mother is a malti-poo, growly and nasty. I hoped when we got him that he would be like the father but unfortunately, he is like his mother.

I know I have made mistakes with him. when he was a baby I got him one of those snugglies that you put the dog in and carry him around like a baby. I broke my ankle when he was four months old so for five weeks he never went on a real walk, just outside to relieve himself. my husband loves him like crazy but has taken no interest in training him and puts up with his now very bad behaviour. I made the mistake of letting him on the bed and the furniture, and let him self feed which he has never been a pig. up until recently when we took him in the car he rode in my lap wearing a doggie seatbelt. but a year ago I stopped letting him on the bed or on the furniture and make him sit before feeding him.. since I have done these things his attitude towards me has gotten really bad.

I did teach him basic commands before and after the ankle incident.. sit, down, stay, heeling plus a few tricks, all of which he does very well, especially heeling. he stays in a crate when we go out but I know he howls and carries on as soon as we leave. I don't work so he has always had me in the house except for a couple of hours at a time here and there.

now for his aggression history. when he was 7 months old we took him to be neutered and it took two attendants to get him out of the compartment they had put him in when it was time for his operation.. he weighed all of about 5 lbs at the time. two years ago we wanted to go away and leave him in a kennel so we gave him a three day trial at the kennel owners insistance and all he did was sit at the fence waiting for us to come back while the other dogs played. he did get on well with them but he didn't like the kennel owner. she suggested we get a dog behaviourist but that was a disaster because Jamie didn't like him either and the man just spent the time feeding him pieces of liver and using a clicker. Jamie would take the liver and growl at him..

last year we took him back to the kennel because we had to go to a wedding and we left him for two days. the kennel owner says he can't come back even though he gets along with other dogs because he never "warmed up to her."

but his growling has gotten steadily worse. a year ago I started taking him to a groomer once a month and at first they had a terrible time with him but he has gotten better. I have always brushed him regularly and he used to go to sleep when I did it, but lately he has been growling and snapping at me so much when I groom him that I put a little muzzle on him so as to not get bitten because there is no way I am going to let him get matted up.

I take him for two long walks a day and he heels beautifully and loves his walk but whenever he sees anyone and they always say how cute he is, and want to pat him, he growls when they even speak to him. but he gets along with all dogs.

so now I am babysitting my baby grandaughter (2) a couple of days a week and sometimes I can leave him home when it is my husband's day off, but sometimes I have to take him. he is not bad in their house but he is very aggressive to her in our house and I am just so fearful that he is going to bite her if I dare turn my back.

I just don't know what to do.. any assistance would be very much appreciated.

Calnorthdawg · Mar 30, 2006

Do a google search on the "NIFIL" policy. Your dog needs to learn some rules. Also, you need to seek out the advise of a qualified animal behaviorist who is a positive motivational instructor. Even a small dog can do a lot of damage to a child.

Also, keep in mind the other animal behaviorist you were going to was probably using proper positive techniques to work with your dog. How sad you didn't stick with him to help your dog. It took you a while to ruin your dog, so, it will take a while to reconstruct the damage that has been done. A dog without rules is an unpleasant thing to live with.

If your looking for a quick fix, it's not going to happen.

Trust me, we see this happen to many small dogs, the owners treat them like little china dolls and let them away with everything. The end result is they end up with a holy terror just like yours. No rules, and we hear often. "oh, we don't brush him, cause he doesn't like it", oh we don't do this, because he doesn't like it. Dogs learn to use teeth and growling to get their own way.

Calnorthdawg · Mar 30, 2006

Just to answer this for you.

Temperment is not "genetic" there is no gene for temperment. Temperment is a "learned" behavior. If you have a nice sound female with good manners etc then that female is going to have nice sound pups because they "learn" from her. I have seen some breeders breed a bad tempered female because the female is "perfect" for showing. The pups were taken away from the mother at about 3 1/2 weeks just after being weaned. The pups turned out wonderful and very human orientated.

Motor patterns and genetic traits can be passed down from sire/dam to offspring. Not so much temperment. I have seen the worst parents (Rottweilers, Shepherds etc.) that I couldn't get near on a good day have wonderful pups just because the pups never got a chance to "learn" any bad behaviors.

So, next time your looking at pups and the mother is horrid and the father is sweet. Look at the dog the pups are learning behaviors from. Not the male, the female.

brock23 · Mar 30, 2006

Calnorthdawg said:

Do a google search on the "NIFIL" policy. Your dog needs to learn some rules. Also, you need to seek out the advise of a qualified animal behaviorist who is a positive motivational instructor. Even a small dog can do a lot of damage to a child.

Also, keep in mind the other animal behaviorist you were going to was probably using proper positive techniques to work with your dog. How sad you didn't stick with him to help your dog. It took you a while to ruin your dog, so, it will take a while to reconstruct the damage that has been done. A dog without rules is an unpleasant thing to live with.

If your looking for a quick fix, it's not going to happen.

Trust me, we see this happen to many small dogs, the owners treat them like little china dolls and let them away with everything. The end result is they end up with a holy terror just like yours. No rules, and we hear often. "oh, we don't brush him, cause he doesn't like it", oh we don't do this, because he doesn't like it. Dogs learn to use teeth and growling to get their own way.

Actually try NILIF. Nothing In Life is Free......................who knows what you will get if you google "NIFIL".

Saje · Mar 30, 2006

here's the link I use

http://k9deb.com/nilif.htm

and you should read the part on social isolation as well

~Tucker&Me~ · Mar 30, 2006

I PMed you...

~Tucker

jamiechew · Mar 30, 2006

Calnorthdawg said:

just to let you know my dog has been growling since we brought him home at 8 weeks old.. and I have groomed him regularly since he was 8 weeks old too.. I did teach him obedience starting when he was very young.. like I posted earlier, I tought him sit, stay, down, come, and heel which he responds to all of them.. he does have rules.. it was only the first year that he got away with a lot more than he should have. but he has been growling since day 1..

Jamie got very sick from all the liver the behaviourist fed him..

thanks to who posted the correct search item to look for, and I will be checking out that link also..

after looking at the link, this is the same thing the behaviourist was teaching.. and I have been implementing the techniques but since that time, Jamie's growling at me has gotten a lot worse, not better.

Fuzz Puppy · Mar 31, 2006

Wow you're really tolerant. Did you flip him onto his back as a puppy? He could think he's alpha.

JennSLK · Mar 31, 2006

Why do people do that? Yes I know people think it's a way of establishing dominance. But with a dog thats agressive it's a quick way to get bit

jamiechew · Mar 31, 2006

actually when we first looked at Jamie he was so small he could fit in your hand and the lady who bred him lay him on his back in her hand and said that was the way you could tell if he was a submissive dog.. he didn't seem to mind when she did that..

I've never purposely flipped him as a control thing.. the only time he has been laid on his back is when I am grooming him so I can brush his tummy and the bottom of his legs. he always used to go to sleep while I was doing that, but lately he hates it.. I don't understand why he has changed about this, and now I have been wondering what they do in grooming salons to brush underneath the dog, probably a dumb question, but I had shelties before I had Jamie and they always laid on their sides for grooming with no problem at all.

mojozen · Mar 31, 2006

I agree with Jenn - you shouldn't have to flip your dog to establish dominance. 'Course I learned this the hard way with Mojo... when we were still working out our own dynamics, i tried to roll him and he reared up and bit me - not hard enough to break skin but enough to say "HEY! WHADDAYA THINK YOUR DOING?!?!" I was stubborn though and kept trying, his reaction was the same every time... I finally got hit by a clue-by-four and stopped. Once i stopped trying to force my dominance onto him, he stopped fighting me all the darn time.

For your problem - I just don't know. I've never had a human aggressive dog... well i fostered a min pin for a week that was incredibly aggressive to strangers (esp men and children)... but that was only for a week while another more permanent foster home opened up. So, I didn't really do much for it at the time...

Try the NILIF... stick with it... and recognize this possible fact.... you may never be able to leave Jaime alone with a child. Is he crate trained? I can't remember, please pardon me if he is. But if he's not, or he hasn't used his crate in a long while you may want to positively train him for it again - meaning have him see it as his personal space place. That way when you have people over he has a place to go to.

Your husband also has to be made to realize that "putting up with" Jaime's bad behavior is not helping anything. It's probably actually making things even WORSE for you and the dog, because the dog is getting mixed signals. If your husband is puttnig up with (or in doggy terms submitting to Jaime's dominance) and you're not then that's why Jaime is turning on you. You aren't stepping into line... so Jaime's goin to make you get back in line.

That needs to stop. You both need to start being the most dominant ones in the household and put the dog back where he belongs... in the beta or more submissive position. That means no more mixed signals.

Good Luck

jamiechew · Mar 31, 2006

thank you for wishing me good luck.. right now my husband thinks I want to kill Jamie which is absolutely not my thought.. I just want to have it so that my granddaughter is safe..

yes, Jamie is crate trained.. it is his security. actually today we have to go out and there is another crate he is used to in the back of the van and today will be the first day that we are going to try travelling with him in the crate instead of on my lap as is his normal place when husband and I are both in the car.. when I travel by myself Jamie sits in the passenger seat with one of those vest harnesses holding him in the seat belt.. I'm not looking forward to the noise he will be making travelling in the crate for the first time.

you said "Your husband also has to be made to realize that "putting up with" Jaime's bad behavior is not helping anything. It's probably actually making things even WORSE for you and the dog, because the dog is getting mixed signals. If your husband is puttnig up with (or in doggy terms submitting to Jaime's dominance) and you're not then that's why Jaime is turning on you. You aren't stepping into line... so Jaime's goin to make you get back in line."

I think you have hit the nail on the head here.. last night was an example of mixed signals.. my husband called him up into his lap, talked baby talk to him and Jamie cuddled right into his chest because it was close to his walking time and husband takes him out last thing at night. husband said Jamie didn't growl at him because he (husband) is the dominant one. after that I tried to pick Jamie up to show him the difference between letting Jamie do what he wanted to do which is get up in your lap, and getting him to do what he didn't want to do which is being picked up. he growled at me when I tried to pick him up.

I am going to try and find a behaviourist, and also follow through with the NILIF.. one difference I have noticed is that since I have been walking him on a 6 foot leash making him heal except when I let him relieve himself, he seems to be much happier on his walk then when I used to walk him on one of those extendable leashes where he pretty much did what he wanted to.

mojozen · Mar 31, 2006

I personally despise the flexi-lead. 6ft is all most dogs need in most situations... being under your control reinforces (i think) that by being under your control thus the dog is safer. I could be wrong, but that is my personal belief.

I have two suggestions for your husband.

a. let him read this thread. I will admit right now i am not a dog trainer, but I have had multiple dogs and some of them havent' been the easiest to work with (mojo being the hardest because he's stubborn - when he wants to do his own thing he digs in his heels and does his own thing. STILL working on that)

b. ask him to compromise. let's try a complete reorder of how jaime is treated by BOTH of you... for say 2 months. Husband follows your lead for 2 months whether you are there or not -

anytime Jaime wants ANYTHING from EITHER of you he has to sit or do some silly trick for it. For example: with Mojo he's not allowed up on the bed unless he sits first and waits for my okay ... and sometimes I make him givepaw or lay down too before he's allowed up. This is also sometimes enforced for him getting his food bowl, being petted, having a toy tossed for him (actually fetch ALWAYS involves a sit first) or to have his harness and leash put on before going out.

You will be teaching your dog to be **polite** not just with the two of you but also with others. And a polite dog, no matter the size, is a dog that everyone adores... not just the two of you.

Also be sure to ask your husband if he'd of allowed/encouraged one of your kids to talk back to you or hurt you the way Jaime is being allowed to do now. Whether he realizes it or not, he is encouraging jaime to talk back AND hurt you... THAT MUST END. If Jaime does it to you, he WILL do it to your granddaughter... and that is unacceptable.

You've got a lot of frustrating work ahead of all 3 of you... but don't give up... it will get better if everyone is on the same page.

(PS: let me add... even though my bf doesnt' live with me he also follows the rules re: mojo. He knows that mojo must sit before fetch, getting up on furniture, and having his harness put on. This makes it easier for Mojo - because there is consistancy.)

casablanca1 · Mar 31, 2006

jamiechew said:

As you've already discovered, changing the dog's behavior without the support of the other humans in the household is close to impossible. If the threat to his granddaughter doesn't change your husband's mind, I can't think of anything that will. Don't let the dog near the baby under any circumstances. Your dog is smart and everything he's experienced so far in his life says that it's possible to bully humans into giving him what he wants, and, worse, that it's safe to threaten and bite humans to get his own way. He's dangerous to anyone, let alone a baby.

jamiechew · Mar 31, 2006

thank you both.. my husband will be home soon and I will ask him to read this thread...

jamiechew · Mar 31, 2006

my husband has agreed to help by getting Jamie to sit before everything he does with or for him.. what a relief!

we took Jamie travelling in his crate in the back of the van and he was way better than I thought he would be.. we were out of his sight and all he did was whimper and pant a little bit.. no barking or crying. we took him to Petsmart and instead of carrying him, he walked on his leash and did quite well until one of the clerks approached him and tried to make friends. Jamie didn't growl at him but he did bark at him but the fellow was non-threatening and did manage to pat him which was a first. I bought Jamie a mesh muzzle so that when my granddaughter is over I won't have to worry about him biting her.

I know that the worst mistake I made with Jamie was buying him that snugglie bag when he was a puppy and carrying him around like a baby.. hopefully by spending all his time on the ground, and going for longer walks, he will become less aggressive.

Jamie is the first little dog I have ever treated like a baby. before him I had shelties and they were always obedience trained at classes and then taken to CD degrees at trials. there were never any aggression problems with people or dogs. I just don't understand why this time I made such a mistake.

mojozen · Mar 31, 2006

Vickie - the muzzle may stress him out more and make him more aggressive. I would save your money and just crate him when your granddaughter is around until you get him fully in your control again.

Others may have different opinions or ideas however.

Oh but before i sound too hypercritical... it's good that you are both willing to try to correct the situation. Thank you so much for doing your best! so many people would just give up and put the dog up for adoption.

That's all.

jamiechew · Mar 31, 2006

putting him up for adoption is not an option.. it would break my husband's heart to give him up and really, the way he is, I doubt that anyone would adopt him.

I would like to hear more about pros and cons of muzzles.. I did have one that was a bit too small which I put on him when my stepdaughter and her family arrived last week. just left it on him until Jamie got used to them being here and when I took it off he was quite friendly to everyone and they have two girls who are 8 and 3..

the days that I babysit another granddaughter when my husband is at work, I have to take Jamie to their house where he is well behaved, but in the afternoon I bring my grandaughter and Jamie back to our house and that's when he gets aggressive to her.. he is fine at her house, so I suppose he is defending his territory when we come here. I hoped that the muzzle would smooth out the period when we first arrive back here.

Fuzz Puppy · Mar 31, 2006

I

JennSLK said:

Look, It woirked for Liberty and he rolls over on his back independentl;y now. Dad rolled Liberty over as a puppy and It's a good thing he did because Liberty learned that he isn't alpha even though he would like to be alpha. I just was suggesting something thatg worked for Liberty that I wanted to know if this person had tried. It was something that I think is helpful to know. Sometimes it does change the dog's views a little bit in my oppinion.

Saje · Mar 31, 2006

I don't think you should ever physically force your dog to do anything just so it shows your dominance.

my dog is growling and snapping at me..

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