multiple dog idea

[bcjake]

I've ran this idea by several dog people with mixed responses ranging from good idea to asking for disaster. When I've had dogs in the past (mostly Aussies) they've tended to better in pairs, especially when we're gone during the day to work. As stated in another post, we've got a 7 month old border collie who is starting to redecorate our kitchen during the day when we're gone (he is usually kept penned up in the kitchen during the day and not given full run of the hosue or kept outside. We've tried a crate but that was less than successful, though the last two days have gone fairly well as we've kept him crated up during the day, letting him out for an hour or more while home at lunch.) The few times we've left him out during the day, he plays well with our neighbor's dog and hasn't damaged anything outside (we've left him out for a few hours here and there and he's dug up a bit if the neighbor dog is not out.)

Where I'm going with this is that we eventually want to have 2 dogs. Actually Jake was going to be a second dog, but the dog we had prior had some severe issues and had to be given back to the breeder. A thoguht that has come up is perhaps adding a second dog might help Jake. We do eventually want to add a second dog, but want to get this one through the basics (sit, stay, do our taxes for us.) We're not activly looking, but are wondering if we found the right dog sooner than later if that might help Jake focus more when we're gone. Granted, we could come home and find our house in flames or at least a few walls knocked out from both dogs destroying other things. And of course there's the questions of crating both, penning both up in the kitchen, etc.

The time frame I was planning on even looking is probably summer at the earliest. Now is definitly too early, as he is just startinng to find his place inn the pack so to speak.

Thoughts?

 

[Doberluv]

You're already having problems with having enough time with your present puppy. To add another puppy would double your problems. I strongly recommend that you get this one grown to maturity (2-3 yrs old) before thinking about another puppy. What can happen is not only do you get double the destruction, but the two dogs, while developing to maturity will tend to bond to eachother more than to you and it is very difficult to train them both while they're both young. Being gone a lot makes this extremely unlikely to create a successful outcome for both puppies. Even one, when you're gone all day is a huge challenge. I never ever consider getting a puppy until my youngest is at least 2 yrs. old so I can concentrate on one at a time through the puppy stage.

 

[sam]

There are certainly benefits to having two dogs and they do seem to keep each other entertained during the day. However, my rule is don't get dog #2 until dog #1 is as well trained and settled as you ever want him to be. That second dog is the biggest distraction on earth and you'll need to crate dog #1 and find time to train dog #2.
It always seems to me that dog #2 is never as well trained as dog #1 because it's harder to find those little 2 minute trainig moments simply because your time is now divided in half and you always have to mamage one dog to train the other.
I wouldn't leave the dog outside or uncrated when you aren't home-- that's askin for trouble and can end with an injured dog or major destruction of property as well as other unpleasant behaviors like boredom nbarking, boredom digging etc-- obnce those start, they are hard to get rid of.

Crating your dog and coming home and running it at lunch is great. Running the dog before you leave in the morning and leaving stuffed kongs etc will help make it easier for the pup to be crated.

 

[bcjake]

thanks for the input. You're reinforcing what we were already planning... waiting. This thread is stemming from a discussion I had with my wife the other day of adding a second dog sooner. Our other dogs were older when we added another (our first Aussie was 5 when we added Aussie #2, who was about 1 1/2. He was about 4 when we gave him a friend.) I figured at the earliest this summer he would be over a year old, settled into things well and our youngest would be over 2 years old. Though I've seen it before in other people, like my neighbor who has multiple dogs, I didn't think of the dogs bonding with each other more than us humans.

I've had a few people recommend reading "Cesar's Way" (my first thought before I knew who Cesar Millan is was what does a Roman Emperor have to to with dog training?). I've never seen The Dog Whisperer since we donn't have the National Geographic Channel, but I've done a little research on Cesar and think his approach is innteresting.

 

[Doberluv]

If you want to know what most professional trainers and PHDs in behavior think about Cesar, well......they don't endorse his methods. There are threads here up the ying yang about him. You can do a search and see the discussions. I, personally find very little about his "way" that I like. I do not see someone who understands dog behavior or interprets body language correctly most of the time. He sees the whole dog-human relationship as dominate or be dominated which is so very irrelevant to domestic dogs IMO. Anyhow, if you want to know about how Cesar is making millions and how the Hollywood glitz works, keep checking him out. He is a self-proclaimed behavior expert and dog "psychlogist." He is clearly not. If you want to know how most trainers and behaviorists veiw and train dogs, read something from some real behaviorists....Jean Donaldson, Karen Pryor, Pat Miller, Ian Dunbar. There are many more good trainers who understand what they're seeing in domestic dogs.

 

[Maxy24]

i would also suggest waiting until your dog is well trained and mature. Is it possible your dog has separation anxiety? Anyway, i would really try to stick with the crate, you would have to be very consistent with the crate and do crate training. There are a lot of articles on this site about crate training so look at some of those through the search.

Many(most) of the people here do not support what Ceasar Milan does when training dogs. he labels all dogs as dominant and does not use many positive reinforcement ideas. The methods he uses may cause your dog to fear you and may cause bites (alpha roles, jabbing dog in neck and so on). I'm not sure as to what books to get but i'm sure other people can help you with that. Good Luck!

 

[BostonBanker]

The few times we've left him out during the day, he plays well with our neighbor's dog and hasn't damaged anything outside (we've left him out for a few hours here and there and he's dug up a bit if the neighbor dog is not out.)

Perhaps I'm reading this incorrectly, but is your dog out loose all-day? How is he interacting with the neighbor's dog?

 

[Jynx]

I'm in agreement with the others on "wait"...I have tried the last few years, to keep to my 2 years in between dogs, hasn't always worked out that way, but it's worked out ok.

I have never gotten a dog to keep the other one company altho they are good company for each other.

Since this is a border collie, alot do have hard time doing "nothing" all day. Have you thought about doggie daycare or maybe asking your neighbor (since it sounds like he gets along with her dogs?) if she'd be interested in taking him sometimes during the day? Maybe you could make some kind of arrangement that would benefit the dog as well.

Diane

 

[krisykris]

Well, I have 3 puppies under a year. I do have *some* issues with them and when I'm having a "bad" day with them.. my stress level is tripled

I love having them all, but it does present some challenges. While they're still so young and hyper and not fully trained, my walks and training sessions have to be done in shifts with them.

Plus, I'm home all day right now so I can always keep an eye out and I'm constantly with all of them so they aren't off forming their own little pack. Anyhow, there's positives and negatives on both end

Good luck with any decision!

 

[bcjake]

I have never gotten a dog to keep the other one company altho they are good company for each other.

The drive behind a second dog isn't necessarily as a companion for the other. Perhaps I misworded earlier. We've always enjoyed having two dogs around. Plus we've found that typically two are a little more manageable than one to a degree. But we admit, a second dog would help the one focus some of his energy.

We keep Jake in the house during the day while we are out 95-98% of the time, penned up in the kitchen. There have only been an afternoon here or there we've left him out. We started with crating when we first got him and it was more or less a disaster. however, we've been working with him again with more promising results.

 

[Jynx]

again, I suggest maybe looking into doggie daycare? Or ask your neighbor to "puppysit" a couple days/hours a week..Even a couple days a week at say, doggie day care will definately help with his need for exercise and mental stimulation.

As to the question of "when" to add another dog,,my rule of thumb is,,If I'm adding another, I wait until the youngest (or the last one I got) is trained atleast 90% to where I want them..I have 4 dogs right now, and all came here at the oldest of 12 weeks of age, I have never had a dog bond to each other more than me, but then I do have the luxury of spending alot of time with my dogs together and separately.

Dogs do pick up good behaviors from others as well as the bad, so waiting, (for when the last one is in a good position training wise), for me, gives the one coming in a better chance of picking up those "good" behaviors vs the negative ones, hopefully )

Diane