Mouthing Issue

[StillandSilent]

Issue is with an 8 month old border collie mix at work. She is very, very sweet, but has a terrible mouting problem. She was turned in to AC after the man claimed she bit him and the kids. He has tried "disciplining" her (Read beating the #(*& out of her), but he couldn't fix her.
There is no agression behind the nipping, she just gets too excited and has no bite inhibition.
First I tried saying "Eh-eh" in a firm voice and pulling my hands to my body so she couldn't nip them. She responded by trying to jump of and nip them again. Then I repeated it and turned my body, but she still made the attempt.
If I step on her leash so she can't get to me, she does better, but I can't keep doing that forever. If I try saying "no" in anything harsher that a firm voice or making a sharp noise to startle her, she hits the ground and shakes.
I'm working with her on some basic obedience, but what can I do about the mouthing. It happens when she gets overstimulated, so I'm trying to desensitize her to being touched and handled, but I'm not sure where to go from here.

 

[lizzybeth727]

Well, it's not surprising that she mouths when you touch and handle her, since the last time she was touched she was probably being "disciplined." While you're desensitizing her, be sure that she stays calm the whole time - if you can, do it while she's tired and relaxed, and if she starts to tense up, that's time to stop.

Also try and keep her from getting overstimulated. If she starts to get too hyper, try to calm her down or stop the play right then - get up and leave and take the toys or whatever with you.

If she bites when she's playing or just excited, then do what you said, pull your hands to your body so she can't get to them. Then turn away from her and don't look at her until she calms down. Once she calms down, you can go back to playing or whatever, but she needs to know that that is a behavior which will always end the fun. If she continues to try to bite you, walk out of the room and close the door behind you, and leave her by herself for a minute or two (unless she barks/whines/scratches at the door/etc, then wait until she calms down).

Remember that border collies are VERY smart and VERY perceptive, and she will try to push the rules as much as possible, so watch out for that and be ready to be consistent when it happens. BCs are also very sensitive to movement, so if she's overstimulated, maybe move slower or stay still until she calms down.

 

[LilyoftheValley]

Hmm.... Lily used to have a major mouthing issue... I just treated her the way I did when a weanling horse 'play' bites (Because I'm a horse trainer). Worked out great and she doesnt mouth anymore. I figured she can handle it, shes a dog.

 

[lizzybeth727]

I just treated her the way I did when a weanling horse 'play' bites (Because I'm a horse trainer).

For the majority of us who aren't horse trainers, I'm sure we'd appreciate it if you'd give us a few more details here.

I figured she can handle it, shes a dog.

Some dogs are more sensitive than others, and it sounds like OP's dog is particularly sensitive, especially to aversive methods.

 

[jrs3936296]

You need some good training here

 

[Mommato2Beasties]

I agree with Lizzy...

About watching what stimulates her, and then curbing those things, moving on slowly from there....

I know that it can be stressful, especially b/c you don't want someone else to say that she bites, and possibly have quite a huge problem on your hands...

I also agree about wanting to know more from the horse trainer about what she means... An example would be appreciated

Lauri

 

[StillandSilent]

Brook and I are doing a little better. I've figured out that seeing the leash makes her go wild, so we are working on being more gentle there. Since she has learned a reliable sit, I have less trouble with her jumping up on me to nip.
I've started using a Gentle Leader, just to help control her head. She loves it and we are making progress. If I have her on lead an her GL on, she will approach people politely and give kisses or wag her tail. I can watch her and pull her away if she starts getting overstimulated. She loves all women and kids, right now we just have to work on her fear of dark haired men. (Just liker her previous owner-gee, wonder if there's a connection? )
I think we're well on our way. She seems to be somewhat socially delayed. She likes other dogs and cats, but she has no idea how to approach them. For example, if she sees another dog, she will run up to it and jump on it, tail pumping, excited to have a playmate. Predictably, the other dog doesn't care for it.
She play bows to me and other humans, but I've never seen her do it to another dog. If one bows to her or approaches her to play, she does excellent, so I don't think it's a dominance issue. Poor girl must have lived a very strange life.

 

[lizzybeth727]

GLad you're seeing improvement!

Many dogs are not great socially with other dogs. I've seen a lot of dogs who just don't know how to play appropriately with other dogs - not that they're aggressive, they do want to play but don't know how. About the only thing you can do is find a willing friend's dog who is very patient and very good at playing with other dogs.

 

[hankejp]

Don't know if this falls in the same line, but this is starting to get out of hand. I have a Shih tzu/Bischon puppy. She is starting to get wild and I want to nip it in the bud, (No pun intended).

Tonight she was just going crazy. As someone would walk down the hall, she would nip at their toes or bite on the pants leg, or hands. She is just 10 weeks old, but I fugre this is the perfect time to teach her that that isn't good behavior. Do the prior posts fit this kind of behavior with my dog?

Thanks

 

[adojrts]

I can answer the question about training a horse not to bite. I have trained horses for over 30 yrs. This works on adult confirmed bitters and isn't just for foals (best time to address it), wearners (weanlings) Yearlings etc.
Although this method isn't recommended for pups and dogs.
It starts with the anatomy of the horses mouth......they have incisiors in the front, then a gap (adult ave sized horse is about 4-5 inches) then the molars that run along the jaw.
When a horse attempts to bite, you just calmly stick your flat hand into the mouth at the gap and keep it there. If done properly you don't get bit or pinched, I've never been bitten this way and I have done this for over 25 yrs.
The horses don't like it, but it isn't scary to them, it doesn't hurt either and its much better than many of the other methods, which can often make a horse head shy. Or in the case of young stallions or studs hitting them just encourages them to bite more. That is the nature of a stud, if you watch horses play or when they practising fighting its a game of biting.
I worked with a horse this past year, he was a confirmed bitter. Had recently been gelded (neutered) but had been a stallion (intact but non breeding) for all of his 5 yrs. His owner constantly hit him to try and stop him from nipping and bitting. Not only was this horse very head shy (afraid of being hit in or around the head face/mouth etc), it wasn't working!! As it often doesn't.
The first time he tried to bite, I put my hand in his mouth and kept it there for several minutes. He wanted something in his mouth so I complied!! He didn't attempt again that day, the next day at turn in from his paddock, he tried again, so I complied!! A couple of days go by, he doesn't attempt to bite, then he just had to try again lol. He started to bite, I started to raise my hand and he immediately puckered his lips very tightly. Lesson learned.
This horse never attempted to bite again, his owner was amazed when I showed him the method. To my knowledge, he no longer bites and his owner has a new method to use instead of pounding on his horse all the time with no results.
This method works awesome on foals and weanlings and often stops an unwanted behaviour before it becomes a habit.

Lynn

 

[Mommato2Beasties]

Lynn, thanks for sharing!

S and S, glad to hear things are improving! She is so lucky to have you in her life!

Ciao!
L