"Meal"

[Maxy24]

So on my cat forum I hear a lot of people saying not to feed food with any sort of "meal" (chicken meal, lamb meal etc.) in it. Now I was pretty sure "meal" was just the meat being weighed after the water was removed not before. The people on the forum have said a few things:

1. meats that are "meal" can come from animals that have died in ways other than being slaughtered such as euthanized pets, animals that died from diseases etc.

2. Meal is not only meat but meat, bone and connective tissue...which is fine, BUT they cannot assure you of the ratio between the meat, bones and connective tissue so you could have very little actual meat but lots of bone and connective tissue instead.

Now I have never heard these claims before but I have heard that meal is "bad" before from many places, but here I have always been told it's just as good if not better than regular meat. I wish Mordy was still here to help but I hope some of you know what meal really is and can offer some proof so I can back up what I say. I don't believe there is anything wrong with it because it is in many of not all of the high quality foods (Innova, EVO, Canidae, California Natural-all have it) but I want to make sure I'm right before I start telling these people they are wrong

 

[jess2416]

This is what EVO says about the ingredient chicken meal

Chicken meal is the dry rendered (cooked down) product from a combination of clean flesh and skin with or without accompanying bone, derived from the parts of whole carcasses of chicken -- exclusive of feathers, heads, feet, or entrails.

here is lamb

Lamb meal is the dry rendered (cooked down) product from lamb tissues, exclusive of any added blood, hair, hoof, hide trimmings, manure, stomach and rumen contents except in such amounts as may occur unavoidably in good processing practices.

1. meats that are "meal" can come from animals that have died in ways other than being slaughtered such as euthanized pets, animals that died from diseases etc.

not sure about that one ^^ hopefully someone else might know

 

[MafiaPrincess]

Contrary to what many people believe, meat sources in "meal" form (as long as they are from a specified type of animal, such as chicken meal, lamb meal, salmon meal etc.) are not inferior to whole, fresh meats. Meals consist of meat and skin, with or without the bones, but exclusive of feathers/hair, heads, feet, horns, entrails etc. and have the proper calcium/phosphorus ratio required for a balanced diet. They have had most of the moisture removed, but meats in their original, "wet" form still contain up to 75% water. Once the food reaches its final moisture content of about 9-12%, the meat will have shrunk to sometimes as little as 1/4 of the original amount, while the already dehydrated meal form remains the same and you get more concentrated protein per pound of finished product. This means that in the worst case you are left with only 4 ounces of actual meat content per pound of fresh meat included in a dry kibble, many of which contain less than one pound of meat per 2-3 pounds of grain to begin with. Preferably a food contains quality meat meal as well as some fresh meat.

What to look for:
►Specifically named meats and meat meals such as chicken, chicken meal, turkey, turkey meal, lamb, lamb meal, duck, duck meal, beef, beef meal, eggs and so on.
►The following are lesser quality ingredients and are not found in truly high quality products, but may be present in smaller amounts (not as the main protein ingredients) in "mid range" foods: fresh byproducts indicating a specific species (e.g. beef/chicken/turkey/lamb byproducts), corn gluten, corn gluten meal.Products that include these as main ingredients should be avoided.

What to avoid:
►All generic meat ingredients that do not indicate a species (meat, meat byproducts, meat byproduct meal, meat meal, meat & bone meal, blood meal, fish, fish meal, poultry, poultry byproducts, poultry meal, poultry byproduct meal, liver, liver meal, glandular meal etc.)

►Byproduct meals, even if a species is identified (chicken/beef/turkey/lamb byproduct meal etc.), since highly questionable ingredients may be used in these rendered products.
►Any food that contains corn (ground or otherwise) as a first ingredient, especially if corn gluten meal is also a main ingredient and no concentrated source of identified meat protein (e.g. chicken meal, lamb meal etc.) is present.
► Corn gluten or soy(bean) meal as main ingredients. Note: Not all dogs tolerate soy products! Small amounts, especially of organic soy, are okay as long as a dog is not sensitive. There are only very few products on the market that include high quality soy ingredients, none of them sold at grocery stores or mass retailers.

http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=betterproducts

 

[Shadow945]

yeah I didn't realize the difference in meal either when I was chatting with someone about TOTW. thanks for the tutorial!

 

[lizzybeth727]

1. meats that are "meal" can come from animals that have died in ways other than being slaughtered such as euthanized pets, animals that died from diseases etc.

Yeah, I don't think they'd be able to use meal from euthanized pets and call it "chicken meal," so it's probably fine as long as you know exactly which animal it came from.

 

[noludoru]

Maxy - what forum is this on? PM me... Because some of what they are telling you is BS. I feel like coming over and backing you up, LOL!

Contrary to what many people believe, meat sources in "meal" form (as long as they are from a specified type of animal, such as chicken meal, lamb meal, salmon meal etc.) are not inferior to whole, fresh meats. Meals consist of meat and skin, with or without the bones, but exclusive of feathers/hair, heads, feet, horns, entrails etc. and have the proper calcium/phosphorus ratio required for a balanced diet. They have had most of the moisture removed, but meats in their original, "wet" form still contain up to 75% water. Once the food reaches its final moisture content of about 9-12%, the meat will have shrunk to sometimes as little as 1/4 of the original amount, while the already dehydrated meal form remains the same and you get more concentrated protein per pound of finished product. This means that in the worst case you are left with only 4 ounces of actual meat content per pound of fresh meat included in a dry kibble, many of which contain less than one pound of meat per 2-3 pounds of grain to begin with. Preferably a food contains quality meat meal as well as some fresh meat.

That is what my understanding of meat meal was. Tendons (that's connective tissue, yes?), skin, bones, meat, etc... all stuff I'm fine with feeding my dog as long as the source is decent, and if it's chicken or beef or something the source is probably decent.

 

[BostonBanker]

It sounds like they have "by-products" and "meal" mixed up.

 

[Maxy24]

Well through PMs I think I found out the confusion with the first person (who thought they out non-slaughtered animals in). I had previously shown her the ingredients to avoid list from Mordy's site and so after I said that I thought chicken meal was fine, just chicken with the water removed, she PM'd me to say she learned that from the site I had posted to her a few weeks ago about bad ingredients. The only thing I could think was that she thought where it says "meat meal" it applies to all meats followed by meal not the exact words "meat meal". I PM'd her back but have not heard from her today yet.
I replied to the thread and quoted Mordy's site (the first thing Mafia quoted) so I'll see what they say. The thread was just someone asking about Taste of the Wild cat food and people were saying they would not feed it because it has Chicken meal, I don't want that person turning down the food for that reason especially since she's got them on Purina and Fancy Feast right now.

I still can't really counter the other person's point though...could chicken meal have more bones and connective tissue (does connective tissue have decent nutritional value?) than meat in it?

oh and random question: You know how you should only feed specific meat sources, does Ocean Fish Meal count as specific or not? I didn't think it did (sounds not better than just "fish meal") but I'm not 100% sure.

 

[noludoru]

Taste of the Wild cat food and people were saying they would not feed it because it has Chicken meal, I don't want that person turning down the food for that reason especially since she's got them on Purina and Fancy Feast right now.

OMFG. She has him on Kitty crack and Purina and people are telling her not to switch to ToTW? I really hope that is a HUGE, HUGE, understanding about the definition of "meal" and not their actual responses when they *know* what meal is.

 

[noludoru]

oh and random question: You know how you should only feed specific meat sources, does Ocean Fish Meal count as specific or not? I didn't think it did (sounds not better than just "fish meal") but I'm not 100% sure.

No, it's not a specific source. It just means they're not freshwater I think, but AAFCO's actual definition could be more stringent (instead of what I am taking it to mean at face value, for instance, ocean fish meal could be code for certain types of fish or something) or less.

Not sure what to say there, because I have fed foods with "fish meal" in them and it doesn't bother me anywhere freaking near as much as feeding land-animal-unspecific meat sources. I mean, think about it.. how many fish are euthanized at the vets office, hit by cars, etc. Not to say that unspecific sources of fish meal are safe or shouldn't be worrying to you - I am sure there are whole other sets of problems with questionable fishie sources, I just am ignorant about what they are.