love/hate relationship with prong and shock collars

[Dreeza]

I am not trying to start controversy as i am very aware that people are against these things.

I just want to share my positive experiences with them.


When we used to walk oakley on a leash and martingale collar (he managed to escape from his other collar 3 times, lol) it was painful to walk him....but he loved being walked...whenever we were preparing to walk him, and were holding the leash, he would sit down, and give a little howl, like 'hurry up!!" (or thats how i interpret it )

then we got the gentle leader...he hated it...he never wanted us to 'hurry up' and put it on...and even with that, he still tried to pull as much as he could.


Then came the prong collar...amazing difference...barely ANY pulling at all...and now, whenver im holding it, he gets all excited and howls cuz he knows when that goes on him, he gets to go for a walk...he doesnt fight it being put on at all (he fought the gentle leader)...and is always wagging his tail when he gets to get it put n...


and then came the shock collar...i love it, but i hate the fact he has to wear it (as well as the prong)...but the same with the prong...he is now howling when i am taking too long to put it on him...cuz when it goes on, it means he gets to play and run around.

it is so comforting knowing that i can play with him, walk him without a leash, etc, and not worry to death about him running into the street...he is quickly learning when he does without my permission...he gets shocked...

now to whomever this seems cruel...i think it is far better than him running into the street and getting hit by cars who frequently speed down side streets...

yes, i do want him to fear running into the street...im not trying to make him fear me, i dont want that, and he doesnt...i want him to fear the street...after all, why dont you guys go running into the street without looking for cars first...and seeing as oakley likes cars, i dont think he understands what could happen when he runs out in front of one (and we have had one too many close calls)


anyways, i just wanted to get it out there that these so called 'torture devices' have their up-sides.

oh, and yes, oakley does know how to come...but i have found when he is bolting across the street...he either is completely blocking me out, or the rabbit is so much more fun to chase than coming back to me and running after a ball, lol

with the shock collar though, he ran after a rabbit twice, got shocked both times...then the third time...he ran about three steps...then stopped...remembering...'this is bad, i am not allowed to do this'


anyways, oakley and i give these things a positive review, because it means more fun and exercise for the both of us..

and it means oakley can chase after those evil sprinklers spraying water all over the yard as much as his big loving heart desires

 

[SHADOW_THE_STAFF]

I dont know what a prong collar is, and a shock collar doesnt sound very nice at all. But if in your opinion it works and u feel it has benefits, well then good, i suppose. Shadow doesnt get let of the leash at all near road, she's let of when we go to the wooded area where we walk her, and she comes back when ever we call her, we reward her greatlythen when she does, I prefer positive re-inforcment myself, but we all have our own methods and opinions. Im glad you've found a way you can enjoy your walks with oakley.

 

[Dreeza]

yeah, see, thats the problemo in my area...apparently (even though tons of people have them) my city doesnt like doggies...

there are NO areas fenced in, or at least a wooded area big enough (and far enough away from a road) for oakley to play and run. If there were...we'd play there, and wouldnt need the collar.

A prong collar is a very evil looking collar that doesnt hurt at ALL (i put it around my own neck, lol, and i dont have thick fur there!) .... as long as oakley isnt pulling.

It allows you to control your dog easily, because, if he tries to bolt, or is trying to lunge at a person or dog, whatever, you can turn around and walk away, and he will follow, cuz it hurts...it had prongs all around it, so unlike a choke collar, it tightens evenly around the dog's neck, and little prongs begin to stick out (they are dull, not sharp) when it is pulled...


the shock collar is like a portable e-fence. i have a remote in my hand...and if oakley is being good, an not putting himself in danger...all it is, is a collar with a big box around his neck (like the ones for the e-fence)...

it has a vibration mode (pager) which i ALWAYS use first before shocking, cuz it gives him a chance to correct his behavior...cuz it doesnt hurt...its like a neck massage (my bro was using it as one, lol) and then, if he is still not obeying, or running into the street, i can shock him...

the shocks range from 0-100. I start out below 20...which i have tested on my own hand...its not pleasant, but, its not painful...its like when you touch something and create a shock (but actually less painful...cuz i have done that and had some pretty bad shocks from my car door) If he doesnt respond, i slowly can turn it up, but i rarely need to.

I think it is very important to test these things out on yourself...i did before ever using them on oakley, to understand what he has to deal with.


ooh, random exciting news though! the city about 10 minutes away is thinking about opening a dog park!! yay

 

[sparks19]

We also used a prong collar for Teddy when we first got him. It showed IMMEDIATE results and he was always more than happy to have it on to go outside.

I had one of the trainers at petsmart come up to me and tell me how wrong it was to have this prong collar (although nobody rushed to tell me that when i was laying down the bucks to purchase it at their store funny how that works) She went on and on about how it would cause aggression in him towards other people and dogs because he would start to fear them. She went on and on and on and told me about how I should get a gentle leader and this and that and the other thing. I didn't want to start a big scene in the middle of petsmart so I just turned my back to her and ignored her. She was very rude and condescending.

So now after awhile of not having any pulling while on the prong collar (and it was getting too small) we got him a halti. WELL let me just tell you how well this has worked out :| Since we have had the halti Teddy has taken after a couple of dogs (all larger he loves smaller dogs but feels the need to defend himself sometimes when he feels threatened) no biting just some mean barking and growling when they first come at him. If they come to him slowly than he doesn't have a problem. He also HATES this halti. I have to chase him around the house just to get it on him treat or no treat. Once it is on he constantly rubs his nose trying to pull the halti off.

So my over all analysis on halti's vs. prong collars I find that prong collars are much better. They keep the dog under control at ALL times and they don't mind wearing it as much as they mind something wrapped around their face.Teddy will come to me willingly if I have the prong collar and tell him its time to go outside but he will run from me if he sees the halti and its time to go outside. People may think they are cruel but once yours dog learns what he/she can and cannot do then it doesn't cause them any kind of discomfort like the halti does. I think they are just misunderstood devices but are actually quite effective and apparently much more comfortable for the animal to wear.

So Dreeza I agree whole-heartedly with you.

 

[Buckshot]

It seems to me that a hard tug on a collar that has no prongs or something that turns his head would be much harder on the discs in the neck than a gentle tug with a prong collar. If there is no evidence of damage like sores, cuts or hair falling out it seems to me that the prong collar would be more humane. I would be more afraid of the damage you dont see. I hope I dont need a prong collar but if it means I have a constant hard pull at my dogs neck or firm checks to keep him in line Id rather go with the prong collar I think. I put one on my neck in the store and gave it a bit of a tug. I liked that it didnt cover the trachea and it wasnt painful.

 

[AmberwayGSD]

I agree with using the prong collars.I had a Doberman that was quite difficult for me to walk with me only weiging 100 lbs at that time before children lol.I just dont agree with ppl that leave them on all the time like a normal everyday collar.They are only meant to be for training and walking not on all day.A dog I knew choked to dealth because he was put in his crate with it on and it gor caught on the metal and he couldnt get loose.Just my 2 cents.

 

[stirder]

I have nothing against these collars at all. and I have shocked myself with shock collars to see how it feels. try walking on carpet on a dry winter day with your socks on, then touch a metal door knob. that little static shock that suprises you but isnt truly painfull is how a shock collar on its HIGHEST setting feels. it doesnt hurt the dog, just suprises the heck out of them. It is so painless I have seen both a gsd on the schutzhund field and a toy poodle in its own yard get the button held down, continuos shock, and not even flinch. they just kept doing what they were doing.
Strider and Rory dont go in their crates with ANY collar on, even if we are staying home. Anything could happen, like a foot getting caught in the collar when scratching.

 

[DoberAdmin]

It has been said 100 time but I will say it again. Any training device in the "WRONG" hands can be a torture device. With that being said I have personally used the prong collar on my Dobes with great success. During training or on a walk, but I do not leave the collar on them all the time.

I am considering a shock collar as I start to train off-leash, it would be comforting to know that even if a distraction came about I was still somewhat in control of the situation.

I have never tried a shock collar on myself but I have tried the prong and a choker on my "NECK" and guess what, that choker is 100x worse than the prong. I will also be taking a few hits from the shock collar before it ever touches my dogs.

Moral of the story - if used properly they are great training aids - in the hands of the mentally challenged (Ignorant & stupid people in this case) they can definitley be used incorrectly and cause the animal some pain.

This is how a prong collar should fit a dog:

You can read more about how to properly fit a prong collar here: http://www.leerburg.com/fit-prong.htm

DA

 

[sparks19]

I agree with "any device in the wrong hands can be torture" and people that leave them on their dogs 24/7 shouldn't have a dog because they don't have any common sense. but used as a training device it is wonderful.

I also get a little nervous with the halti because I am afraid of something happening to his neck. He is kinda used to it now so he doesn't take off at full speed on his extendable leash. He did that a couple of times and I just shouted as loud as i could cause i didn't want him to break his neck but now he will start to run and i tell him to "slow down" and he does. It's nice to know my concerns aren't irrational.

 

[smkie]

a soundburst collar is very effective for runaways..and boundry training..i would way rather Vic get one shock and then relate it to a sound..then to be struck by a car or doomed to never get to play in his own yard again thanks to one very lousy neighbor..i would give a pretty penny for a tritronics right now.

 

[Dreeza]

i am glad to have support on my training methods.

If everyone was fighting me, it would make me reconsider, but, even then...after 3-4 months of close calls, and terrible experiences walking Oakley, i still dont think i would.

I never leave the prong collar on if he is not being walked...

somtimes the shock collar stays on (or gets put on) if he is being a menace in the house, but that is rare, and for short periods (and he is always with someone)

And what most people are saying about the prong and shock collars being in the wrong hands...sooo soo true...they could easily become torture devices...but thats not gonna happen in my hands


Stirder...i dont know what shock collars you have felt...but mine...omg, i would be so scared to put it to the highest setting...i have had some BAD shocks...and the lvl 20 setting was less than the worst shock...but not by that much. I felt TERRIBLE yesterday because oakley ran into the street b/c he was chasing a rabbit (2 big NO NOs!) so i hit the continuous button (series of shocks)...he maybe got 3 or 4, at lvl 15-18...and he was welping (obviously i stopped the 2nd he started crying) ...and he came running to me, and got lots of kisses, cuz i felt sooo bad...

and oakley seems to be pretty 'tough'...like, he jumped off our 2nd floor balcony and was happliy wagging his tail...and he ran into a fence at full speed, and wasnt even fazed, lol that was funny

but yeah...those things can be EXTREMELY painful...

 

[Adrienne]

I'm glad you have found something that works for you and Oakly. I do have to say that I have tried a shock collar on the palm of my hand and I thought it hurt like heck, it was certainly not pleasant. This is coming from someone with several tattoo's and two labor's with no medication. I guess I am just super sensative to shocking discoveries! LOL!
At least Oakly can now play and walk safely and that is all that really matters in the long run.

 

[Mordy]

just a note about the "correct fit" of the prong collar shown on the leerburg site - i know it's popular, but it is wrong. if you fit it like that, you can do serious damage to the larynx, even inadvertently. there is no protection that high up on the neck and you are inflicting more pain than really necessary.

the correct way to fit the prong collar is around the middle of the neck, in a snug fit with no slack in the chain part.

some more info:
http://www.flyingdogpress.com/prong.html

 

[stirder]

mordy is right about the prong collar position, every trainer I have ever spoken with who uses them agrees, middle of the neck is only place it should go.
as for shock collar, I have tried the tri-tronics flyway G2, the tri-tronics 80c, and the DT EZT Plus 3000 series shock collars. I didnt think they were painfull, but then when in highschool me a few guys decided to do some "jackass" the tv show type idiocy and shocked each other with a hand held tazer. honestly though I felt they were maybe a little worse than the average static eletric shock, but not painfull (the collars, not the taser).

 

[Dreeza]

ok, glad to hear that about the fitting...cuz, oakley's is not that high up on his neck...the woman who gave it to me told me to put it up there, but, it doesnt stay there anyways...i have it between his normal collar and his ears...it seems to be a good fit like that

my shock collar is a dogtra...some settings i cant feel...but like i said, i dont have the guts to shock myself above 20...and it goes to 100

 

[Melissa_W]

just a note about the "correct fit" of the prong collar shown on the leerburg site - i know it's popular, but it is wrong. if you fit it like that, you can do serious damage to the larynx, even inadvertently. there is no protection that high up on the neck and you are inflicting more pain than really necessary.

the correct way to fit the prong collar is around the middle of the neck, in a snug fit with no slack in the chain part.

some more info:
http://www.flyingdogpress.com/prong.html

Great link.

 

[stirder]

wow, I think the highest one I have tried went up to 18. that doesnt meant the shock is less, almost certain there is a federal law stating a maximum shock permitted, and my tri-tronics (dont have them anymore) owners manuals were where I read that. they said the highest setting was the highest shock allowed. it just means the shock gets more intense faster, you have more options with yours. i can see how that would be both good and bad. maybe I built up an immunity to shock when I was an idiot and allowed my friends to shock the sh!t out of me with that taser???

 

[DoberAdmin]

just a note about the "correct fit" of the prong collar shown on the leerburg site - i know it's popular, but it is wrong. if you fit it like that, you can do serious damage to the larynx, even inadvertently. there is no protection that high up on the neck and you are inflicting more pain than really necessary.

the correct way to fit the prong collar is around the middle of the neck, in a snug fit with no slack in the chain part.

some more info:
http://www.flyingdogpress.com/prong.html

Thanks for the link, I will certainly read it over. I dont always belive everything Mr Frawley has to say on Leerburg so the more information that is available on proper use of training collars the better.

DA

 

[luvmydogs]

i didnt read thru the whole posts, but i use a prong collar on phoenix. and its actually really lose, but it seems like since i put it on him, he never even trieed to pull, so it never pinched him..maybe he had bad experience with it from his previous owner. ive tried halti collars and a no pull harness, but nothing worked as good as the prong collar.
p.s. i just read thru the leerburg site and realized i am using it incorrectly

 

[Julie]

Is a pinch collar, the same think as a prong collar?

We have used a pinch collar in training, and all of my dogs are great on a leash.

I have also used a shock collar when running loose at our summer camp.. When our dogs take off, running after some animal or person, I give a good yell, Here, Charlie.....He stops, turns around looks at you, then thinks to himself - heck with her, and takes off running the other way, thats when they get a brief shock. It works, and anymore, very rarely do they even wear the collars, they still listen. They have also been shocked off of livestock, for their own safety. Around here if a dog is even "bothering" livestock, farmers have the law on their side, and can shoot your dog. So better safe than sorry.

Julie.