Looking for tips training "Quite" command

PFC1

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We have a 3 year old Bernese Mountain Dog. Very sweet, great personality. Fairly well trained with basic commands. (Sit, down, stay, come, shake, and speak) VERY, VERY treat motivated.

Here is the issue: often at night, we go to the basement (or sometimes to the den) to watch T.V. In the past, we used to grab a treat or two to take it down with us to give to the dog. For some time now, when we go downstairs the dog runs down with us. But after a few minutes, he will look at us and start barking, as if he is demanding his treats. We think he recognizes a pattern-- "my parents are sitting down together, I get a chance to do a sit, down, shake, or speak to get a couple of treats." He will continue barking like this for some time. He is not grasping/ and or choosing to follow the "quite" command at all.

I have tried saying "quite" and then petting him and saying "good boy" when he stops. But invariably, he starts barking again right away, as if he simply does not understand the command, or does not wish to comply. If I have a treat in hand, he will sit very quitely, staring at me intently until I give him the treat. Since he isn't barking, I can't tell him "quite" and then reward the correct behavior. The "speak" command only gets on little "woof"-- not a continual barking where I can then tell him to be quite. When he gets really mouthy, I will give him a "down" comand. That usually quites him up for a bit, but five minutes or so later, we start getting the forlorn bark or whine ("I want a treat. Why doesn't anyone love me?"), which then breaks out in to full blown barking (I WANT MY TREATS!!) When this happens, I will sometimes lead him out of the room and shut the door. He will flop down on the floor and is quite then. But I don't want him out of the room; I want him inside with us being quite.

He is not a barky dog at all in other situations. He does not bark at other dogs, strangers, at anything out the window, or even at strange sounds. It is just when he gets in this "Give me my treat!" mode that he barks. I don't mind giving him a few treats, but I don't like the idea that he expects the treats.

Any tips would be appreciated. Thanks.
 

PFC1

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Thanks, Dobe. I read it, but I don't think that that post exactly answers the question though. If I have a treat, he will be quite and sit patiently until he gets it. It's when I don't have the treat that he gets demanding. ("I am going to bark my head off until you get off your lazy ass and get me a treat!") I think the root problem is he expects to get the chance to do a trick to get a reward based on the pattern of the two of us sitting down together. When that opportunity doesn't come, then he barks to show his displeasure.
 

Mordy

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#4
Ignore him. :)

The barking may get worse for a little while (this is called an "extinction burst") but eventually he will understand that it doesn't get him anywhere.

You can use treats to enforce quiet behavior, but never make the mistake of "bribing" your dog with a treat, meaning showing him that you have a treat and he will get it if he does something to earn it. Make it a habit to keep treats out of sight and only produce one after it has been earned.
 

PFC1

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Thanks Mordy. We have tried to ignore him for some time, but are getting nowhere. I would have thought that he would recognize that the barking is getting him nowhere by now. He is very quick to pick up patterns in our behavior. But this one is taking longer than I would have expected.

I generally try to hide the treats, but he always knows. (nose?) He can smell them as soon as I walk in the room. (He always zeroes in on the one sucker at the dog park who just had to bring treats in their pocket.) I am trying to avoid doing exactly what you say to avoid-- bribing him. That's why I am trying to break this habbit without relying on the use of treats too much. He will do all of his comands without the aid of treats. Its just that he rarely gets a treat without having to do one first. The exception being when he is laying quitely I will sometimes try to slip him one in the evening, but I have to leave the room to go get it, and that causes him to hop up to see what I am doing, ("Are you going to get me a treat?" ) thus defeating the treat when laying quitely strategy. I will redouble my efforts to conceal the treats, and see if that helps. Maybe the addition of a zip lock baggie to retain the scent will work. I will just have to be really quite getting into his cookie jar or the cupboard, because he can hear that from anywhere in the house. Then perhaps I can lull him into laying quitely, permitting me to treat him for laying quitely without letting him know he is "performing."
 

Mordy

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Keeping a stash of treats in the room might help. I know it's difficult to trick them. :D

Another thing you can try is just using a really low value treat, something he isn't particularly crazy about. Reserve the best stuff for the most challenging parts of your training sessions and use pieces of baby carrots or something similar as a "TV treat". If he gets something less yummy than expected, he might calm down sooner.
 

Doberluv

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#7
Sorry I didn't read your post very well at all. I was in a hurry and skimmed it....had just written that other one and thought I'd come back and get at it better later. Sorry. You do indeed have a different situation. Mordy gave you great advice.


My! But he IS the demanding one, isn't he. LOL. :D Well, like Mordy said, just ignore that no matter how long it takes....could be 2 weeks. In addition, you can start having him earn some of the other things he wants. http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/nothingfree.htm

He needs to know that it is not he who makes demands on thee. LOL.:cool:
 

PFC1

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Mordy said:
Keeping a stash of treats in the room might help. I know it's difficult to trick them.


If he gets something less yummy than expected, he might calm down sooner.
Great thoughts. I will try both.

Doberluv said:
Well, like Mordy said, just ignore that no matter how long it takes....could be 2 weeks.
Two weeks-- if had been only that short a period I would not have bothered posting. Its been more like four months that we have been trying to break this little behavior. Still, great advice, guys. Thanks a lot.

In the link that you posted, Doberluv, there is a great statement: "Does he gets (sic.) food and play for free and there is no 'currency' to pay with to get it?" He understands that there is currency that he has to pay to get what he wants, but his idea of the correct currency and mine are not converging. He thinks he should sit, down, stay, shake, or occasionally speak on command to get a treat, but he also thinks he is entitled to his chance to perform.
 

Doberluv

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#9
Two weeks-- if had been only that short a period I would not have bothered posting. Its been more like four months that we have been trying to break this little behavior. Still, great advice, guys. Thanks a lot.
Based on animal behavioral science as well as practical clinical application, it has been found that most behaviors are modifiable within aproximately two weeks if consistant and correct training has been employed. They give up old behavior which is no longer working, try new behavior and see that it works. So, from extinction to learning new behavior usually takes about that amount of time if done systematically and correctly.
 

SummerRiot

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#10
possibly try a squirt bottle.

We have Shelties(shudders at the memories of them barking as pups) - they are one of the mouthiest little dogs you'll come by. Our female proved that statement well. We were actually thinking about getting her debarked at one point.

But, we did continuous use of a squirt bottle to the face each time she barked out of turn or when it wasn't "allowed" and now she barely does it when she isn't playing or working with us. :)
 

lapdog

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#11
I think your dog is obscessed with treats. No more treating in the family room. Personally, I would give the treats a rest for awhile and then only use sparingly after that.

As far as the barking goes, ignoring will eventually work, you just have to wait it out. It might take a couple of days, but will eventually sink in that nothing is coming.
 

PFC1

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lapdog said:
I think your dog is obscessed with treats. No more treating in the family room.
I think you are right.

We try not to over do it with the treats though, just two or three of the small Innova health bars a day. He only eats two measuring cups of Innova Evo a day. (we used to give about 2.5 per day, but his stools were really soft, so we have cut back a bit.) He weighs 90 lbs. So, certainly not a lot of food for his size, and he is a very light BMD.
 

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