Leash Laws

sassafras · Jun 10, 2012

Agreed completely. Really I think almost all dogs (and I'm only saying "almost" because I don't believe in 'always' or 'never'

) can be perfectly happy without off leash exercise.

I'm in an urban area, though. Although we have a lot of green space and a great parks system in my city, it is still densely populated and on-leash park areas (which is basically everywhere that's not designated as an off-leash area) are multi-use and well-used. On a busy weekend especially there will be all sorts of people doing all sorts of things with and without pets, and there is always traffic near enough that it could be an issue. It's just really not an appropriate place for off leash dogs. Same thing with dogs being walked off leash through the neighborhood - too much traffic and too many other people and dogs walking. So that's the perspective I'm coming from.

Out in the middle of BF nowhere, or sparsely populated areas, or lightly-used parks with tons of open, unused space I would probably be a little less anal about it. But that's not how things are here.

Grab · Jun 10, 2012

Linds said:

The lad and I are originally from IL, and I had the opposite thought whenever I was in Chicago. I constantly saw people taking their dogs tons of places, lunching outside with them, lots of walking etc. I think my dogs would have had plenty of exercise. But then, I don't tend to have dogs with higher energy needs. If I tried to get any of my dogs to run in a field for more than a lap or so, they'd pack their things and leave. *shrug*

ihartgonzo · Jun 10, 2012

AdrianneIsabel said:

I agree with you!!! I hate that so much! One of my neighbors walks his older GSD off leash next to him, while holding a leash... walking across the street in front of cars and everything. It seems like they do it just to show off, out of complete arrogance. Why put your dog in danger of being hit by a car for no reason? The dog is next to you anyway!

I saw a guy doing this across the parking lot, going into Petsmart, with his Lab puppy. He had a leash in his hand but chose not to put it on the puppy. The puppy got ran over by a car.

Luckily he lived, the car wasn't going very fast, but was screaming in pain.

Bailey08 · Jun 10, 2012

I'm late to the thread, but I'll admit that I occasionally break the law by allowing Bailey offleash. For me, it's less about the exercise aspect of it (he goes to daycare and gets walks, plays agility, etc.) and more about the pure, unadulterated joy he has when he gets to zoom around without me holding a leash. I do keep a long line on him and call him back if we even see another person/dog. He's not the type to run up and greet a strange dog -- zooming is so much more fun -- but we don't take the chance and I don't want to stress people out.

I understand why people don't like it; I'm always super careful when people are walking their dogs off leash and not paying attention to them or I can't tell how they're going to behave. Mine are always in sitstays (leashed by my side) when another dog is off leash, until they pass. And there are definitely idiots who think it's fine for their off leash dog to come up to mine. I either ask them to call their dog or, if mine is in the right mood for a greeting, call out to ask if the other dog is friendly, before there is any interaction.

I'll say, too, that I understand Danefield's earlier comments and do try to teach my dogs to remain calm and polite around other dogs. Bailey is really dog savvy and well socialized, and has no reactivity or aggression issues. But a couple of weeks ago, we were in a store and he was worn out and probably a little cranky, and when another dog was rude to him, he was super pissed. It was so weird! But it definitely escalated the situation when usually it would've rolled off his back. (The dogs had no physical contact, but there was some tension.) It was a weird, maybe one-time, thing, but since I don't want it to happen again, we're working on it. I totally understand if others feel differently, especially those with reactive dogs (mine absolutely are not, and I want my puppy especially to learn to be socially appropriate, so it's an easy enough and, IMO, worthwhile, behavior for me to shape).

Dizzy · Jun 10, 2012

ihartgonzo said:

Where are you thinking.... because Europe is a continent.. and each country varies WIDELY.

However, that being said, I have NO idea how you lot cope with not being able to freely walk your dog. That would KILL me. It's weird, because on the flip side, you have a lot more dog friendly urban places - shops, restaurants etc. We don't have that in the UK. They do elsewhere - eg, France.

JessLough · Jun 10, 2012

Bailey08 said:

^That. She goes off leash so I don't have to go into the water :rofl1: It has nothing to do with exercise for us. Either way, she needs 4 hours of walks a day, whether she's running around off leash or walking on leash. (My sister doesn't take her off leash cause she won't listen to her) Granted, there's no leash law near the water. Or anywhere near here, really.

Linds · Jun 10, 2012

elegy said:

This. While I do have a larger backyard it's not fenced which makes it not as useful as it could be, no training centers around here that I know of have off leash area's, I don't have a car and no access to a pool.

AdrianneIsabel said:

And I don't think they are and really didn't mean to imply anything like that!

I just honestly think you guys are more dedicated than me in a way. If I had to use onleash hikes on 10 ft leashes (And I say this because being off leash and being on a long line/flexi is the same offense and fine here. That that it's enforced), have him swim on leash, just be content with the dog park when I'm able to go and limited swimming or mostly on leash walks (I seriously hate walking) it would become a chore exercising my dog and because of that I wouldn't do it and then I wouldn't be able to own the breeds I love.

Even being able to bike would be tainted because one of the biggest things I do in the middle is let him off to swim and cool down. The only reason I can do the bikerides I do with him is he has that swimming in the middle.

At the end of the day I have dogs because I enjoy them, enjoy playing with them and hiking and swimming and all the other things that I wouldn't be able to really do on leash so I use my head, minimize the danger/rudeness for all involved and make a calculated risk to allow running around off leash where it really isn't allowed. So I don't think you guys are doing any less for your dogs at all, just chose a different, slightly more legal

way

I guess what sometimes bothers me is some people sometimes come off on here as though if you let your dog off somewhere they aren't legally allowed to be off you are seen as incredibly irresponsible and disruptive while in all honesty I think most of us here doing that are incredibly vigilant about it and most of us when doing that never even come in contact with other people or dogs.

But I guess that's really what it comes down to. Doing what you can, for your dog, within your comfort zone while knowing you, your dog and the area's. I think a lot of the places you guys live I wouldn't be able to do what I do and if you guys lived where I am you might be sorely tempted at the places I go to.

Grab said:

See, to me all that stuff is nice but really low down on my want scale for dogs. I thrive on woods and fields and water. So pretty much I'm just not a city person. At all

sillysally · Jun 10, 2012

Well it is incredibly disruptive. I see loose dogs in a park one too many times and I can't take MY dog there to exercise--it simply isn't worth the risk to undo all of the training we've put into her. So someone who is breaking the leash dog is keeping me from exercising my dog somewhere when I am doing what I am supposed to be doing. Our exercise areas have decreased because of it. How is that NOT disruptive?

Remember that the people on here are only a very, very tiny fraction of the dog owning population. The majority of dogs that I see loose are only barely under control, if they are at all. I don't like those odds for my dog.

Linds · Jun 10, 2012

sillysally said:

Because I'm not talking about them. I'm not talking about the people you run into. I'm talking about ME and how I do it. That wouldn't disrupt you because you wouldn't be there while I was doing it or if you were I would have your permission.

So yeah, I'm not disruptive.

Bailey08 · Jun 10, 2012

Linds said:

I almost put this above, but my post was already ridiculously long. Anyway, I'm much more vigilant about B off leash. I mean, I try to be all the time, but, I'm human (and, well trained as he is, he's a dog). He just greeted a woman in an outdoor cafe a few days ago when we were standing outside (I had turned to talk to a friend). I was so embarrassed and super apologetic, but, thankfully, she was really nice and didn't mind at all. Thankfully she didn't kick him. Goodness.

sassafras · Jun 10, 2012

Bailey08 said:

Oh, for crying out loud.

AdrianneIsabel · Jun 10, 2012

To be totally honest when I see photos of traveler off leash I merely smile. I don't think OMG you criminal! Lol but if someone asked me do I value, respect, and hope people abide by leash laws? The answer is yes in any scenario where they can be troublesome to anyone else. Meaning if you're not bothering anyone and it's very unlikely you will be then enjoy yourself but if I'm trying to walk my dogs in a park on leash and your dogs are off leash I won't hesitate to look at you like you're a selfish jerk. (big scary threat, I know)

Oh and let me clarify, exercise is a job with my dogs. Lol

Linds · Jun 10, 2012

AdrianneIsabel said:

And I would be completely ok with that because if I was doing that (and to be honest I've been caught with my pants down a few times where I didn't think anyone else would be around there and someone was. Luckily all the times they've been tickled about the dogs and I was able to do a recall immediately) then I totally deserve it and any lecture that comes of it.

And I would totally be terrible if it became a job. This is why we become so sedate in winter. I hate the cold.

sassafras · Jun 10, 2012

Again, I don't think it's the worst thing ever. It's pretty far down on the list of sins in my book.

But having said that, the counterpoint to this

is this: For some people, an off leash dog IS incredibly disruptive to their day whether it ever approaches or interacts with them or not. Someone who is afraid of dogs or has a child who is afraid of dogs, for example. Or someone who has a reactive dog. Watching you from across the park, they have no idea what your dog is like or how vigilant you are, and no matter how careful you are they may now be wasting some of their leisure time keeping an eye on you and/or being anxious about what you and your dog might or might not do.

Yes, it's a "bad apples" problem, because of all the people before you whose dogs weren't under control. And again, it sounds like the type of shared public space where I live is probably more densely populated and used than where you live. Also, it is well known that I am old and humorless.

CaliTerp07 · Jun 10, 2012

ihartgonzo said:

I don't know what option I would have found if I had a dog who wasn't a dog park dog. I haven't experienced that yet. I'm grateful that was an option for us. In all honesty, we probably would have looked at houses further out from the city and increased our commute to an area where we could afford the land she needed to run. Heck, that's why we stretched our budget to buy a SFH instead of a townhouse--I knew Lucy needed a yard to blow off energy chasing squirrels. I'd have loved to continue living in the apartment we had--it was in the heart of everything--but it wasn't working for such a high energy dog.

It's odd to me that we (general we, people on this message board) stress so hard that you need to find a dog/breed that meets your needs, but that the legality of the situation is never considered. If you don't have the ability to legally exercise your dog off leash, why get a dog that requires excessive off leash time? This really isn't intended with snarkiness...I got Lucy having absolutely no clue about anything dogs--I went to the shelter, adopted one that fit the size requirements my apartment had and the age requirement I had (no puppies, I didn't want the chaos!), and we adjusted our lives to fit her needs the best we could. Now that I know enough about dogs though, I will never adopt a herding breed--I just don't feel like I can give it the exercise it requires without breaking the law, which I'm not willing to do when there are plenty of dogs whose needs I could legally meet. I love them, I think they're awesome dogs and I'd love to do agility with one, but I don't want to break the law in order to do it.

I really, really don't mean this as an "I'm better than you because I don't exercise my dog off leash illegally" message. I'm just honestly curious why people knowingly purchase dogs who have exercise needs they couldn't meet in legal ways, when there are a zillion breeds and mixes out there to choose from.

sillysally · Jun 10, 2012

Linds said:

Or maybe you are and you don't even know it. Most people are not going to tell you if they are bothered. If I was walking Sally somewhere and consistently saw an off leash dog there I simply would not take her there anymore.

You said that people on here are acting like those with off leash dogs are disruptive, and I'm saying, yes IMO, they are disruptive.

You say that you make your choices and have your opinions based on your dog's mental health and well being. Well, that's what I do as well. Sally's mental health and well being are my priority, as are the ability to take either of my dogs as well as future dogs to public parks. Illegally off leash dogs in public areas disrupt that.

MandyPug · Jun 10, 2012

I break leash laws pretty much every time I take my dog to the park (heck we even break them as a team when we practise scent hurdle in the parks). The reason is that all three of the specified "dog parks" are dangerous for my dog. Full of poorly behaved dogs and idiot owners who bring aggressive and reactive dogs to "socialize" off lead. And even during "off times" there's the matter of the wild life. One is full of very courageous coyotes, one is a designated breeding ground and habitat for rattlesnakes, and the third has a ton of deer that aren't afraid to charge dogs as well as there are lots of porcupines. Would you want your dog running around there? Even though Izzie has a rock solid recall I can't take her there in good conscience, plus the grass there is so long that playing fetch with her would be a lost cause.

So we go to people parks and walk around until we find a place with few people around and then toss the ball around for a bit, I always call her and put her in a down stay at my side when people are coming. We'll also sometimes hike at the edge of the coulees too but again, there's long grasses and wildlife to worry about.

Plodding along on leash walks just aren't fun for either of us, she doesn't forge ahead on lead (even on a flexi, unless she has to pee) and really I'd rather exercise my dog where she's able to tell me when she's done rather than her keeping up with me even after she's had enough.

CaliTerp07 · Jun 10, 2012

sillysally said:

That's true. We stopped taking the short cut through the elementary school in our old neighborhood because there was often someone practicing retrieves with their [very well behaved] lab. Every time the man released his lab to chase down the fake duck, Lucy would get super stressy and want to chase after the other dog (even though he was 20 yards or more away)

Should my dog be able to handle that from a distance? Sure, probably. And we work on her motion reactivity TONS. But the point is, she can't handle it, and unexpectedly running into that in a place where I did not expect to see off leash dogs meant that we moved back in our reactivity training.

Eventually, we found another path for our walks that didn't go near the school. I never said a word to the person with the lab--there was no point.

sillysally · Jun 10, 2012

CaliTerp07 said:

Honestly, I have been wondering this throughout the thread too....

PlottMom · Jun 10, 2012

CaliTerp07 said:

That's true. We stopped taking the short cut through the elementary school in our old neighborhood because there was often someone practicing retrieves with their [very well behaved] lab. Every time the man released his lab to chase down the fake duck, Lucy would get super stressy and want to chase after the other dog (even though he was 20 yards or more away)

Should my dog be able to handle that from a distance? Sure, probably. And we work on her motion reactivity TONS. But the point is, she can't handle it, and unexpectedly running into that in a place where I did not expect to see off leash dogs meant that we moved back in our reactivity training.

Eventually, we found another path for our walks that didn't go near the school. I never said a word to the person with the lab--there was no point.

What would you say if the lab had been on, say, a long line & your dog still had a fit?

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