Labrador dilemma

Boemy

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#1
Okay, as you may recall I won't be getting a dog for a while but am currently studying different breeds. Well, whenever I take those "what breed is suited for you" quizzes, I always come up with 100% for labrador retrievers.

And I do like labradors. A lot. :) I have a reservation about the breed, though.

I know it would be hard to find a great breeder considering how many bad BYBers are out there, so I'd want to look for a lab from a kennel with "proven" dogs, meaning champions in conformation. The thing is . . . I really hate the way show labs currently look. :( They're so bulky and piggy . . . That's not what a labrador should look like, IMO. The field labradors look more like my idea of a proper labrador retriever. But I think they would have too much drive for me. I don't hunt and although I do want to do agility and/or advanced obedience work, I don't think it would be enough for a field lab.

Due to the rampant health issues in labs, I would rather not go to a rescue, as their dogs were originally bred by BYBs, most likely. I would consider a lab mix, but then I couldn't compete in any AKC sponsored "dog sport" events. :(

Opinions? Are there still champion conformation labs out there that look more like the field labs?
 

Gempress

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#2
Hmm....actually, I would recommend looking for a field lab. Let the breeder know that you're interested in a pet, not a working dog, and they can usually select a good puppy prospect.

A dog with a conformation championship doesn't automatically give birth to champion puppies. Same with field dogs. In every litter, there are usually a few pups that are not as drivey or field-quality. And while they may not be intense enough for working, they still make wonderful pets.
 

musky hunter

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#3
What is wrong with a field lab with drive? Just make sure he has enough exercise and you should be fine.
 

elegy

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#4
i totally agree with gempress. and kudos to you for doing your homework.
 

Boemy

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Thank you for the excellent suggestion! A not-too-drivey field lab would be perfect. :)

What should I look for in order to tell if a breeder of field labs is good? I know that they need to OFA and CERF their dogs, but in addition what kind of tests/trials do field labs go through to be "proven"? What letters after (or in front of) the names will show that a dog is excellent? Do they tend to be AKC registered or are there different registries (or no registries at all) for field dogs? Also, are there any health tests that should be done on labs besides the CERF and OFA?

If anyone knows of any good breeders offhand, I would love to know. :)
 

~Dixie's_Mom~

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#6
Penn Hip is a good test to be done for large breeds, but isn't nessesary. It's a little better then OFA IMO. We used to breed labs (my parents actually) and they did Penn Hip, and CERF. I don't know if they were 'field' labs though. I was probably 5 when we got the 1st one(Cleo, my 1st dog :)), and we retired her and the dad (Buddy) when they were a couple years old. I think they were basically pets and hunters. We had a couple duck hunters who went to some comps, but that's all I know. I was to young to know anything about all that. :)
 

Zoom

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#7
Well, as far as I can tell, Virgo may have come from some sort of field lines. She's got that real lanky build to her. But she has a very manageable drive and is wholly content if I give her something to carry around in her mouth. She's one of the better Labs I've met/dealt with, and she's from a local shelter. So I wouldn't totally discount those...sometimes you end up with the hidden treasure.

But good for doing your homework!
 

MomOf7

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#8
Thank you for the excellent suggestion! A not-too-drivey field lab would be perfect. :)

What should I look for in order to tell if a breeder of field labs is good? I know that they need to OFA and CERF their dogs, but in addition what kind of tests/trials do field labs go through to be "proven"? What letters after (or in front of) the names will show that a dog is excellent? Do they tend to be AKC registered or are there different registries (or no registries at all) for field dogs? Also, are there any health tests that should be done on labs besides the CERF and OFA?

If anyone knows of any good breeders offhand, I would love to know. :)
There are 2 rings of competitions for field labs. Hunt tests and Field trials.

For hunt tests these are the titles and what they mean. These titles will be after the name usually but sometimes people in hunt tests will refer to thier dogs with the title before the name..No big deal same difference.
Hunt tests are dogs who are judged under a standard set of regulations. Your dog must perform to meet these standards in order to recieve a pass.

JH--Junior hunter. A basic retrieving dogs who has obediance, drive, and trainablity.
SH Senior hunter...More complicated including the use of hand signals and whistle. Much more obediant for an honor situation which means the dog watches the next dog retrieve its first bird while at a sit/stay no leash or lead.
MHMaster Hunter... Is the highest title and requires the dog to be at top performance.
The only other unofficial title which would be the absolute highest is a dog who wins a Master national. Takes alot to qualify to run your dog in the nationals.

Ok For field trials which are much like a hunt test but the marks are longer and the dogs are judged against eachother instead of a standard. Much more complicated competition and many dogs do not make it.

QAA----Qualified all age. isnt really a title but is a big accomplishment.
AFC ----Ametur field champion. Is a dog who was ran by an ameteur handler and got enough points to recieve a title. Usually takes at least 5 years to earn this title on the average
FC ----Field champion is a dog ran by a pro who got enough points to recieve this title. Usually takes at least 5 years to earn this title on the average.
NAFC--National Ametuer Field Champion. Can take up to 9 years of age to ever get this. Its like the superbowl of dog competitions and you have to have enough points to qualify to run in this event. To win is luck!
NFC National field Champion. Same as above but the handler is a pro trainer.
Here is the pedigree of a couple of my females to give you an example of a well bred field lab. Now all the clearances do not show with this pedigree program but there are plenty of them!
http://www.geocities.com/oaklandbaykennels/molly.htm
http://www.gooddoginfo.com/gdc/asp/viewpedigree.asp?DogNo=82564

Ok Now there are other groups of competitions that have different titles and I will probably run out of room if I list them all. The ones above is the only ones recognized by AKC. Not to make the other titles mean anything less as the competitions are just as hard if not harder to pass.
We do both hunt tests and what is called NAHRA tests.

OFA and Cerfs are certifications that are commonly used just as any test. They do have another test for CNM. Now I am not convinced of this testing as it is new and has had some descrepacies. (SP?) CNM is for Centronuclear Myopathy. Of course there is the heart and thyroid tests as well.
Now there were some good suggestions as far as field dogs go but any pup or no pups out of a litter will or can make it in hunt tests or field trials. Some are too soft and are harder to train or another maybe to hard headed. Really hard to be definate untill they are about 6mo of age. I have all field bred labs and everyone of them know how to be inside dogs (minus normal dog problems) and outside dogs. We rotate them. Many kennels keep thier dogs in kennel runs and they do not make good house pets not to say they couldnt with some time and training. Field bred labs do have alot of energy and arent for the faint of heart. They require alot of patience and have many of the same problems as pets as most other breeds. Sometimes it seems more so though.
I personally will not sell my pups to pet only homes unless they can prove to me that they have considerable knowledge of the breed or have owned one before and can prove that. Labs if left to thier own devices will get into much trouble just like any other breed but on a bigger scale:D
Like I said mine make good house pets 99 percent of the time but that one percent is enough to drive me crazy at times. It seems when they really screw up they do it to the fullest. But thats a lab for you. They do everything to thier fullest. If trained right they can be the most wonderful dogs in the world.
I can make suggestions for reputable breeders in your area if you like. Personally I would look at petfinder.com for a rescue since you are just looking for a pet. there are many pures and mixes, pups and older dogs that will make a great pet.
Good luck in your search
Kristine
 

MomOf7

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#9
Penn Hip is a good test to be done for large breeds, but isn't nessesary. It's a little better then OFA IMO. We used to breed labs (my parents actually) and they did Penn Hip, and CERF. I don't know if they were 'field' labs though. I was probably 5 when we got the 1st one(Cleo, my 1st dog :)), and we retired her and the dad (Buddy) when they were a couple years old. I think they were basically pets and hunters. We had a couple duck hunters who went to some comps, but that's all I know. I was to young to know anything about all that. :)
Penn Hip is a better indicater of the health of a dogs hips.
 

Boemy

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#10
Mom of 7, that's exactly what I kept running into when I googled, huge kennels that keep their dogs outside in cement floored dog runs. No sign of a toy or blanket, even. That's not the kind of place I'd want to get a dog from. Some of them talked about bringing their bitches inside to whelp and raising the puppies in the home like it was some innovative, unusual practice. Well, that's better than leaving them out alone in a "state of the art whelping kennel" like some places advertised, but it's still not a mindset I'd want to support . . . That dogs are only brought into the home when they're giving birth. :(

Thanks for the explanation of field/hunt trials and the titles, that helps tremendously!

I can make suggestions for reputable breeders in your area if you like.
I would really appreciate that. :) There are so many labrador sites it's overwhelming, plus I know a lot of good breeders don't have websites anyway. I'm in Washington, specifically in Spokane in eastern Washington.
 
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#11
Just FYI -- there are many conformation labs who are not huge and bulky. I have a bench/show lab and she is moderate. She is laid back and has the true labrador temperment. I do exercise her quite a bit, but she is definitely not - nor ever has been - hyper. I have a couple of friends w/ field labs and they definitely have the drive to go all day. I'm active ... but not THAT active :) Make sure that the dog you get matches your lifestyle and activity level. If it doesn't, then one - or both of you - will be miserable.

Keep in mind labradors are a mid-sized breed, not a large breed. But you certainly see them in all sizes!

Here are photos of my girl who is 15 months old -- and again, a moderate bench lab:



 

Zoom

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#12
She's also at a very good weight, good job! It's almost impossible to find a 'fit' Lab anywhere these days, be it show ring or backyard.
 
L

LabBreeder

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#14
Okay, as you may recall I won't be getting a dog for a while but am currently studying different breeds. Well, whenever I take those "what breed is suited for you" quizzes, I always come up with 100% for labrador retrievers.

And I do like labradors. A lot. :) I have a reservation about the breed, though.

I know it would be hard to find a great breeder considering how many bad BYBers are out there, so I'd want to look for a lab from a kennel with "proven" dogs, meaning champions in conformation. The thing is . . . I really hate the way show labs currently look. :( They're so bulky and piggy . . . That's not what a labrador should look like, IMO. The field labradors look more like my idea of a proper labrador retriever. But I think they would have too much drive for me. I don't hunt and although I do want to do agility and/or advanced obedience work, I don't think it would be enough for a field lab.

Due to the rampant health issues in labs, I would rather not go to a rescue, as their dogs were originally bred by BYBs, most likely. I would consider a lab mix, but then I couldn't compete in any AKC sponsored "dog sport" events. :(

Opinions? Are there still champion conformation labs out there that look more like the field labs?

Why not get a field bred Lab? They would still be titled as JH/SH/MH/AFC/FC and other different field related or agility titles. Why do you have to have a "conformation Lab"? There are field Labs with 'show' looks, but not stocky/stubby/chunky. Do a search at AKC's website and through the Labrador Retrieve Club. You will find reputable breeders. Do you know what questions to ask and what to look for?

EDIT: I didn't read the other posts before doing mine. Most questions have already been asked and answered. :)
 

bubbatd

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#15
Glad you're looking into it !! Your show labs don't have the bulk or drive as the field labs. My kids have owned 3 .... all rescue and lovely dogs.
 

missbeckydee

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#16
Yeah! We got our little guy from a rescue, and I think he's a good lookin' dog. We get compliments on him everywhere we go. He's totally wonderful, too. The best temperment, really easy to train, and not at all hyper. So don't think too badly of rescue dogs. I know he thinks very highly of himself! :D
 

ShAnd

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#17




That`s my showlab who`s 7 months old by now. I like him the way he is (30 kilos which is probably around 55 lbs .. height 58cm). His parents are from an english breeder who also take their dogs hunting - but no dummy-work.

Altough he`s still young he`s a very quiet dog at home .. but of course he loves to run, play and work. We`ve started to work with the dummy and as it seems he`s quite steady already. It`s more difficult to get him interested in the dummy and bring it back to me .. Field-labs apparently have a little more "will to please" than Show-labs - although I`m quite sure we`ll make a good team sooner or later.

I might be able to say more in about a year or so:p

Hope you`ll find the perfect dog:)
 

Boemy

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#18
MyGirlsMom and ShAnd, your dogs are beautiful! :) I'm glad to hear that some show labs are less bulked out.

Is a bench lab another term for a show lab or does it mean something specific?

Thanks guys. :)
 
L

LabBreeder

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#20

Top Notch Gunner - 5 months old in this picture, close to 60 lbs. This is the only good picture I have of him standing straight with his tail out straight. No, his tail isn't "kinked" it just looks like it in the pic.



Black Tear of Cheyene - 70 lbs and 2 years old. From hunting and field lines. Loves swimming and retrieving (or looking for) birds of any kind. She is more willing to listen than Gunner is.
 

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