Is Sadie's Front okay?

[jesirose]

I want to do Rally soon with Sadie, so we are working on a bunch of stuff. Here is a video of her doing Front tonight. Since she's not feeling good I just did once to get a video of it.

(Yes, she's wearing a diaper. )

Sadie - front on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

What do you guys think? Any help is appreciated! PS: no comments about my butt are welcome

 

[Toller_08]

She looks a little crooked to me, and a bit too far back. I'd probably try and straighten her out a bit if you can -- I'm working on the same thing with Dance at the moment. 8/10 times Dance has a perfect front, but every so often she'll get lazy and sit off to the side a bit. I've been using the wall and a broom stick as barriers (set just wide enough for Dance's body) so that she has no choice but to sit straight in front of me. That's working for us, but other more experienced people might have some better suggestions.

 

[jesirose]

Thanks! I know she's too far back and that's what I need help working on. I will also try the broomstick thing, good idea. Someone else said to make her sit on a phone book to do it.

 

[lizzybeth727]

I noticed that you're bending over just slightly as she approaches you.... and if you draw a line from your forhead to the floor, she's sitting just behind that line. The bending is what is pushing her out too far in front of you.

So my suggestion would be to work on standing straight up to cue her front, and if she's still not close enough you can lean back just a little.

I do want to say, good for you for videoing your training! I video myself sometimes at work and I know that it's sometimes VERY painful to watch, but it is a wonderful way to critique yourself and learn a lot about your dog.

 

[heartdogs]

I was thinking the same thing. Leaning in to the dog makes them stop further out.

 

[corgipower]

I noticed that you're bending over just slightly as she approaches you.... and if you draw a line from your forhead to the floor, she's sitting just behind that line. The bending is what is pushing her out too far in front of you.

So my suggestion would be to work on standing straight up to cue her front, and if she's still not close enough you can lean back just a little.

^yup!!^

Also, if standing up straight doesn't get her closer, you can back up a couple steps right before she sits to bring her closer. Then work on backing up less and less.

If you can't work on both at once, I would work on the distance first then the straightness.

 

[RedyreRottweilers]

first, I would not work on fronts while calling the dog in. You will kill the speed on your recall, and that can be hard to get back.

I work this in a stationary position. I work the dog from heel position to front, front to heel position, get them to find front from off set postions, and so forth.

I begin by luring with food to teach position. I teach the dog to look at my belt buckle. That might be a tad high for your dog, you might want to teach her to look at your knees.

Then I would recommend you work on focused attention with your hands by your side. I call this the "no lookie no cookie" game. Most dogs will naturally gravitate to the front position when they get into playing this game. It can give you a lot of chances to reward and shape the perfect front position.

Also as someone mentioned, it is very important that you stop all that body language immediately. Let me go look I think I have a clip with me working some fronts somewhere...

Very cute dog, and you have a great start going with her.

 

[jesirose]

Thanks guys! It's hard not to bend over, she's so short. I'll try!

Redyre - I use "front" not her recall word "come". Is that okay?

 

[lizzybeth727]

Redyre - I use "front" not her recall word "come". Is that okay?

It's still the same behavior... the only difference would be that for "front" you are particular about her position, and for "come" you are not.... which is very confusing for her.

But moving to a front from the side is much more difficult and requires more thought and understanding for the dog. Once she gets it, she will really understand it much better, and then maybe you could practice fronts from a distance like you are now.... although I don't know when she would need to do a front from a distance like that.

 

[SharkBait]

i have the same problem with Matisse, he sits too far back and in a very relaxed sit (sitting on his thigh if you know what i mean) so this thread is great.
Redyre, what is this no lookie game? sounds good, as Matisse is losing focus!

(sorry i dont mean to hijack your thread jesirose!)

 

[corgipower]

Redyre - I use "front" not her recall word "come". Is that okay?

A lot of competition trainers use "front" for the position of a sit front and "come" for the action of coming to you. They train the two separately - releasing the dog as he gets to you by throwing a toy behind you through your legs.

After the dog gets proficient at the "front", they might combine the two commands - "come front" until the dog puts the two together reliably and then they just use one word. Some competitors I know will continue to use "front" for the recall in the ring - because the dog needs to end up in that position and then use "come" for the first call in the drop on recall ~ "Come" "Down" "Front".

Also, it's not a bad idea to have more than one recall command - one for a formal recall with a sit front and one for coming to you informally, like out in the yard or at the park.

 

[RedyreRottweilers]

I would just have her closer for the front. Teach her the position, and leave the recalls for later. Also, if the dog is taught to find direct eye contact rewarding, if you stand up straight they will naturally come in closer.

Once I have taught front, and I do use the word "front", then I use that from the drop on recall to have the dog come in to front.

 

[RedyreRottweilers]

NO LOOKIE NO COOKIE

 

[Dekka]

As long as you can reach out and touch your dog's head technically they are close enough. Those are the rules as I last read them.

I would do the toy/treat between the legs a few times to get straight and close. It works wonders. Also make sure you don't practise finishes. If your dog targets you can put a piece of tape on your pants (so it looks like its in the middle of your legs) and get your dog to nose touch that a few times. (I did that with Dekka).

I too use front for a formal recall, and come when I want the dog to just come.

 

[jesirose]

I'm more confused now

 

[corgipower]

I'm more confused now

ACK!!! That's not good. What has you confused?

 

[jesirose]

How do I get her to come front if not from a few feet away? I'm not trying to do recalls now. (I mean I am but not with this part. - we work on those outside mostly) Should I be starting by luring her when she's at my side instead? Or just stand there and wait for her to come near?

 

[corgipower]

How do I get her to come front if not from a few feet away? I'm not trying to do recalls now. (I mean I am but not with this part. - we work on those outside mostly) Should I be starting by luring her when she's at my side instead? Or just stand there and wait for her to come near?

What I do is have the dog sitting at heel and I give my command for front (I use "come"). Then I take about three steps backwards while encouraging the dog to come around to the front ~ I want the dog to pivot to a front position. I then fade out the steps and any lure I might have needed.

After that I start practicing it with the dog starting in various positions - "front seeking".

 

[lizzybeth727]

I have never taught front for competetive obedience, but of course it is something my service dogs have to know.... I teach it by first teaching the dogs to target my hand. I use the hand touch to get them into heel position, among other things. Then, starting with the dogs in heel position, I have them follow my hand out in front of me and then turned facing me. So from the heel position, they have to step a couple of steps forward, then swing around and walk back to me. I step backwards if needed (often I just lean backwards) to get them close to me in front position. Sometimes I need to use barriers (I like chairs because I always happen to have some on hand) to get their position straight.