Is Rimadyl OK for my dog? Vet question.

[yellowdog5]

My vet for 25 years died, and not knowing where else to go, I took Amber to his old office for a sprained hock. The lady who examined her prescribed Rimadyl twice a day, at first for a week, and then for 2 more weeks. It really helped her, and now she seems normal except for a small swelling right in the joint. I try to keep her quiet but it's not easy because it doesn't seem to hurt anymore and she wants to play. She has 6 days left of the Rimadyl, but I worry about medicating her for so long when she doesn't really seem to need it. Can someone educate me on this? Can it have any adverse effects?

 

[lizzybeth727]

Yeah, rimadyl can have some long-term effects (don't know what they are off the top of my head, but you could do a google search I'm sure). I don't like to use it for more than about 3 days.

The main problem with medicating an injury like this is that pain tells the dog to slow down and take it easy; which he has to do for the injury to heal. If you take the pain
away, he will feel fine and act normal, and it will be difficult to get him to take it easy.

IMHO, what I would do if I were you, would be to stop using the rimadyl now. Still try to keep her quiet, and let her heal for the next week or so. After that, if she is still swollen or seems to still be in pain, I'd call the vet; three weeks seems like it should be long enough to get over a sprain.

 

[release the hounds]

I wouldn't give it under any circumstances. But that's me. First off, there is supposed to be a baseline liver panel done before prescribing this drug. I assume they didn't do one, they usually don't even though they're supposed to.

It does have a list of side effects, is not good for long term use, and I just don't understand the use of "anti-inflammatory" drugs for injuries anyway. Sure they get rid of inflammation. And in humans anyway, cause the body to lay down tough type I fibers rather than they type III that are elastic and more like the original tissue. So by taking the anti-inflammatory meds for injury result in a tissue healing that is tough and more fibrotic than it should be. In some studies the ligaments were actually 30% weaker than those just treated with ice. Nice huh? I don't know the mechanism of Rimydal, so don't quote me that it is the same as NSAID's in humans.

Throw in the fact that they make you or your dog "feel" better, all it does is encourage you, or your dog to get more active than you should be and cause further injury. That's good for business I guess, but not good for you, or your dog.

But that's just me.

 

[PoodleMommy]

I wont let any of my dogs take it.

I just get pain meds for a few days if they have surgery or something... it knocks them out more then Rimadyl would but I prefer that over the long term effects on the liver of Rimadyl.

 

[elegy]

personally, i'd base it on your dog. if you don't give it and she doesn't seem painful, then start again. or you could try a half dose. then again, you say your dog still has some swelling, and rimadyl is an anti-inflammatory, so it may be that she still needs it.

but i hate the idea of "don't use drugs because then your dog won't hurt and won't stay as quiet". the whole idea of that is just barbaric to me. that used to be common thought for not giving pain meds to dogs following surgery, too. but studies have shown that animals with pain medication on board heal quicker and have fewer complications if they're given appropriate pain meds. pain meds with spay/neuter is now considered standard of care.

as far as liver damage, yes, it can happen. it's rare, but it can happen. it's a bigger concern if the drug is given longterm. the most commonly reported side-effect is stomach upset.

(and as far as full disclosure goes, my dog has taken rimadyl for two knee surgeries and takes it occasionally now for arthritis, tolerates it well, and is helped by it. i expect that she'll continue to take it for the rest of her life. she has had no changes in her liver values.)

 

[Criosphynx]

First off, there is supposed to be a baseline liver panel done before prescribing this drug. I assume they didn't do one, they usually don't even though they're supposed to.

if this is true Iam now VERY angry at my old vet.

 

[colliewog]

personally, i'd base it on your dog. if you don't give it and she doesn't seem painful, then start again. or you could try a half dose. then again, you say your dog still has some swelling, and rimadyl is an anti-inflammatory, so it may be that she still needs it.

but i hate the idea of "don't use drugs because then your dog won't hurt and won't stay as quiet". the whole idea of that is just barbaric to me. that used to be common thought for not giving pain meds to dogs following surgery, too. but studies have shown that animals with pain medication on board heal quicker and have fewer complications if they're given appropriate pain meds. pain meds with spay/neuter is now considered standard of care.

as far as liver damage, yes, it can happen. it's rare, but it can happen. it's a bigger concern if the drug is given longterm. the most commonly reported side-effect is stomach upset.

(and as far as full disclosure goes, my dog has taken rimadyl for two knee surgeries and takes it occasionally now for arthritis, tolerates it well, and is helped by it. i expect that she'll continue to take it for the rest of her life. she has had no changes in her liver values.)

^^ Just a second vote in this column. My thoughts exactly. I've also used it on many dogs for many years with no adverse reactions. But I do agree in doing bloodwork beforehand ...

 

[Saeleofu]

^^ Just a second vote in this column. My thoughts exactly. I've also used it on many dogs for many years with no adverse reactions. But I do agree in doing bloodwork beforehand ...

I'm going to agree too. I have given it to my dog before, and Max is on Rimadyl as needed for life. The only reactions to Rimadyl that I have seen in 4 years working at the clinic is GI upset, in which case you stop the meds.

 

[release the hounds]

yes, I am a barbarian. But i'd like to see those studies that prove you heal faster after surgery or injury with NSAID use. It would be extremely interesting. I have never seen one that showed that. Sure they make you feel better, but in terms of healing? hmmmmm

all i've ever seen were findings that they give you sub optimal soft tissue healing because they #1 delay inflammatory cell migration,

#2, delay myotube deposition The cells that make new muscles, create strength and stability in an injured area. They are what keep that area from being injured again, provided they are able to do their job and aren't interfered with.

and #3 delay collagen deposition, you know, the stuff that comes in and heals a wound or injured area. How any NSAID's actually "help" heal something when they interefere with something so important as this, I'd really love to know.
Am J Sports Med 1996 24:6 Garrett

or that NSAIDS showed knee ligaments that were injured to fail with 30+% less load than those injured and treated with just ice. they interfered enough with the healing process that ligaments healed with a third less ability than they should have. Nice.
Amer J Sports Med 2001;29(6):801-805

J Bone & Mineral Research, May 2002.
They had this to say, NSAIDs appeared to slow or modify bone healing after fracture.

Endocrinology & Metabolism, 86, 5067-5070, 2001 goes on to say OTC pain killers (ibuprofen, a often used OTC anti-inflammatory) are well known to suppress the synthesis of prostaglandins. However, these prostaglandins also have a profound effect on muscle growth.

Spine. 2002;27(10):1012-1017 had this to say with NSAID use vs just heat,

Pain relief on days 1, 3, and 4, and lateral trunk flexibility during treatment were significantly higher with the heat wrap than ibuprofen or acetaminophen, and disability was significantly lower. Reduction in muscle stiffness on day 1 was greater with the heat wrap than with acetaminophen (mean 10.5; P=.001). None of the adverse events was serious, but the ibuprofen group had the highest rate (10.4%).

and those are but a few of the many, many studies that show how nsaids interfere with, hinder, delay, obstruct and flat out DO NOT speed healing from injuries or wounds.

So, would I give, Rimadyl or any other anti-inflammatory to my dog for an injury, NO, maybe I am a barbarian, or maybe I just know it's not going to help. Part of standard procedure or not, it makes zero sense to me. Especially when it can destroy the liver.

 

[Barb04]

When I have to give a strong med like this, I also give a Milk Thistle capsule which helps the liver. One of our vets told us to do this.

 

[yellowdog5]

----you say your dog still has some swelling, and rimadyl is an anti-inflammatory, so it may be that she still needs it.-------as far as liver damage, yes, it can happen. it's rare, but it can happen. it's a bigger concern if the drug is given longterm. the most commonly reported side-effect is stomach upset.

Is 3 weeks "longterm", and what are some opinions on giving her a liver supplement? She does still have a little swelling, and it's obviously still painful, but much better. I think she needed the medication for sure in the beginning because she had a really bad scare and the pain from the injury was adding to her fear. Her emotional state started to improve almost immediately, although she still has reservations about some things.
Thanks to everyone who has responded to my question, I appreciate all of the intelligent, informative answers, and I am considering them all.

 

[GlassOnion]

Rimadyl is fine for short term usage, and OK for long term usage, though the effects are more prominent over the long term.

The problem with Rimadyl is it, like any other medicine, has some adverse reactions and it became a favorite to hate on by pet owners due to it being a popular, well used, expensive (ignoring useful) medication. The internet makes it sound like every dog who takes it will die horrifically when in reality the adverse reaction rate is <1%.

 

[Taqroy]

The internet makes it sound like every dog who takes it will die horrifically when in reality the adverse reaction rate is <1%.

Is there something to back that up? (I'm not trying to pick on you, just genuinely curious. )

*Personal opinion*
I would not give it to my dogs without doing the blood work first. This is mostly due to a horrific night two years ago involving three dogs, a huge bottle of rimadyl, lots of hydrogen peroxide, a bitten thumb and the resulting scare that Murphy was going to have liver damage. So I'm kind of a special case. I think giving any kind of medicine long term (unless it's a supplement) runs a risk. To me it's like taking ibuprofen everyday for the next six months.

 

[release the hounds]

Rimadyl was the first NSAID of its class cleared by the FDA in over a decade to relieve the pain and inflammation of osteoarthritis in dogs. It's the number one choice of veterinarians for prescription arthritis pain relief(a). Rimadyl has provided pain relief for more than four million dogs across the country(b). Signs of Rimadyl intolerance may include appetite loss, vomiting, and diarrhea, which could indicate side effects involving the digestive tract, liver or kidneys. Some of these side effects, like those of many other NSAID-class medications, may occur without warning and, in rare situations, may be serious, resulting in hospitalization or even death. In actual field use, the reported rate of all side effects for Rimadyl has been less than 1 percent. If these signs occur, discontinue Rimadyl therapy and contact your veterinarian. See important Information for Dog Owners and attached product infill for prescribing information. Your veterinarian can help you decide if Rimadyl is right for your dog. For more information, visit the Rimadyl Web site at * or call 800-720-DOGS.

This was a press release from Pfizer.

Of course Pfizer would never lie, hold back, misrepresent, or fudge data. they would never employ the likes of guys like Dr. Scott Reuben to make up, lie about and write fake studies to get drugs approved. Pfizer would not use a guy like Dr. Scott Reuben to make up studies about some other painkillers like Bextra (similiar to Vioxx) (another controversial human drug for pain relief that caused heart attacks), much like the controversy around Rimadyl.

They just wouldn't do that. and a company that is always on the up and up, and not afraid to be honest about things certainly would never have to face fines of over 2 Billion dollars for illegal and deceptive marketing practices.

oh wait, Pfizer is guilty of both

Pfizer drug studies fudged, report says - More health news- msnbc.com

Scott Reuben falsified painkiller studies Science Notes

 

[lizzybeth727]

Is 3 weeks "longterm", and what are some opinions on giving her a liver supplement? She does still have a little swelling, and it's obviously still painful, but much better. I think she needed the medication for sure in the beginning because she had a really bad scare and the pain from the injury was adding to her fear. Her emotional state started to improve almost immediately, although she still has reservations about some things.
Thanks to everyone who has responded to my question, I appreciate all of the intelligent, informative answers, and I am considering them all.

IMO, 3 weeks is a long time for a sprain, though I know there are varying degrees of sprains and serious ones can last a long time. I am more concerned with the fact that she still seems to be in pain after all this time.

Have you been icing it or doing anything else to help it heal (besides, of course, limiting her activity)?

 

[yellowdog5]

Have you been icing it or doing anything else to help it heal (besides, of course, limiting her activity)?

Yes, I have been icing it 2-3 times a day. The vet did tell me that this particular injury would take a long time to heal. I am the one who called it a "sprain", it is an injured tendon, but not torn, maybe sprain is the wrong word. She's not in a lot of pain any more, but sometimes I can tell it is still sore.

 

[sillysally]

Since the dog in question is a lab (I'm assuming) I'd be very leery about using Rimadyl with her. Labs especially have been known to have adverse reactions to the drug. That having been said, Jack was on it for a short time after his elbow surgery and suffered no adverse effects.

Jack has Deramaxx that we give him for elbow dysplasia as needed. We did a baseline blood panel and then do more blood work every time it gets refilled.

Also, I would not put any stock in the belief that somehow a dog will stay more quiet when in more pain. This is VERY individual IME. If Jack feels like running around like an idiot he will do so whether he is in pain or not, so I wouldn't count on that.

 

[GlassOnion]

This was a press release from Pfizer.

Of course Pfizer would never lie, hold back, misrepresent, or fudge data. they would never employ the likes of guys like Dr. Scott Reuben to make up, lie about and write fake studies to get drugs approved. Pfizer would not use a guy like Dr. Scott Reuben to make up studies about some other painkillers like Bextra (similiar to Vioxx) (another controversial human drug for pain relief that caused heart attacks), much like the controversy around Rimadyl.

They just wouldn't do that. and a company that is always on the up and up, and not afraid to be honest about things certainly would never have to face fines of over 2 Billion dollars for illegal and deceptive marketing practices.

oh wait, Pfizer is guilty of both

Pfizer drug studies fudged, report says - More health news- msnbc.com

Scott Reuben falsified painkiller studies Science Notes

Yes yes and Teva and Fort Dodge conveniently 'forgot' to tell the veterinarians who use their product about various recalls lately.

Businesses, especially pharmaceuticals, lie, cheat, and steal. Who'da thunk it? Thing is, Rimadyl in practice is very safe. We use it quite frequently and I've not seen a single patient who's on it suffer adverse reactions. Not saying it doesn't happen (it obviously does) but in my experience, with hundreds of different patients on it, nada except a dog hurting itself because the owner over exerted it. Yet the internet has 'rimadyl sucks' fixed into its database because no one goes online to go "Rimadyl is awesome and my dog is doing a lot better!", only complain, so like any other negative thing on the internet, it should be taken with a grain since it's a grossly disproportionate sample size.

 

[elegy]

Thing is, Rimadyl in practice is very safe. We use it quite frequently and I've not seen a single patient who's on it suffer adverse reactions. Not saying it doesn't happen (it obviously does) but in my experience, with hundreds of different patients on it, nada except a dog hurting itself because the owner over exerted it.

i've seen a dog barf here and there from it, but not anything more serious than that. all of our canine spay/neuters take a six day course of rimadyl, so that's a fair number of dogs.

 

[Laurelin]

Well if I can say it, my dog Nikki was on Rimadyl for over a year. It was awesome and really improved her mobility. She probably would have been put down way earlier than she was without it. We tried everything else and decided to give rimadyl a go. I'm very glad we did.