Invisible Fences, need advice quickly

[lizzybeth727]

I think we shall buy some and fence in part of the yard, while Lilly is small enough to be coyote food. Then go with the IF, having both for the winter will be good. We decided to go with the IF now, as we do have a lot of neighbours right here in town(same woods and roads), who are very very pleased with how it works.

It doesn't seem to me like you're listening to our advice. Most people have given you some compelling reasons why IFs aren't a great choice, and physical fences are much better - yet you still insist you'll get an IF. You mentioned that you could do a mesh fence in 1/3 acre of your yard - My parents have about a 1/4 acre yard, and I know it's plenty of room for a full-grown lab to run and fetch in, they used to have a lab.

I'd suggest (for what it's worth), go ahead and get the 1/3 acre fenced in, and give it at least a few months before getting the IF, so you can decide if you really want the risk and expense of getting a fence you might not need.

 

[Jane]

Yes, we are getting the physical fence, and will install it soon.
Then we will decide on the IF one later, I just needed input, as everyone in our area has said the IF is what they got and really love. Nobody seems to have had any problems with them. Actually, here on this forum, is the only place that I have seen any negative information about the IF. And Ive talked with about 25 local families.
Ive not seen any chain link anywhere in our town except for where the dumpsters are behind our groceries, to keep out the animals. And one family who were renting a house in the area who had about 5 unsocialized Rottweilers, they were always inside this chain link pen sort of thing, with a tarp covering one end of it.
And the poor things barked all night. Not near our house thank god, nor within hearing range.

So the plastic or the welded wire fence will fill the bill, and then we will go with the IF if we need it.
Thank you for all the information, we are looking at this in detail,
Jane

 

[ihartgonzo]

I know several people with IFs. In ALL of those cases, every single dog has ran away several times, one of the dogs was never found. I would also be very worried about wildlife... even when your puppy is full-grown.

Why not keep her on a very, VERY long line to play with her, but also keep her safe as long as you can easily step on the long line if she tries to run off? Start working on a veryyy solid recall and formal Obedience now. I think a physical fence is the best option here, and the safest by far.

 

[Lizmo]

I've seen friends with IF. Almost all the dogs are either DEATHLY afriad of the fence (because of HOW you have to train them on it, from my understanding) or don't give a care and run straight through, then can't get back it.

My understanding of how you train then to respect the IF is you have to walk them by, let them hear the beep, then give them a shock so they know what happens if/when they run through. Now, I've seen dogs that won't even go NEAR the that part of the yard (Without the collar OR beep) after that, their eyes' speak for themselves IMO

Then, like others have said, the dog either doesn't care that it get's shocked because of the reward that comes after, or other dogs -or animals- come in.

As you can probably see, I'm strongly against this method of fencing for many reasons. I don't understand why people will not just teach a recall so that can be off leash? It's not rock science and takes only a few minutes many times a day. Your labs a smart breed, he'll catch on quick to a recall.

 

[Maxy24]

I actually had a question about the IFs, when your entire yard is fenced and you go to take your dog out of your yard for a walk do they resist you because they think they are going to be electrocuted or is there someway you train them that they can go through on a leash.

 

[StunnedMonkey]

I know several people with IFs. In ALL of those cases, every single dog has ran away several times, one of the dogs was never found.

I find it odd that every time the subject of invisible fences comes up, everybody on the board who mentions experiences with them (either themselves, or a friend or family) talks about how they don't work for crap and dog just ignores it and is always getting out, etc. Yet literally everyone who I've personally talked to says that they've had no problems at all.

I investigated IF this summer, as we live in a subdivision that doesn't allow perimeter fencing. I talked to several neighbors who had either Invisible Fence, or some other competing brand. To a person they all said they'd had no problems with the dog running through it. I received a completely different view of them compared to the horror stories I routinely read here. I didn't get the invisible fence, by the way. We keep Darby on-leash all the time outside.

I just think that the whole invisible fence thing has become one of those rigid Chazhound absolutes: Invisible Fence = Bad regardless of the circumstances, and no one will ever admit that it just might be a viable alternative in some situations.

 

[lizzybeth727]

I find it odd that every time the subject of invisible fences comes up, everybody on the board who mentions experiences with them (either themselves, or a friend or family) talks about how they don't work for crap and dog just ignores it and is always getting out, etc. Yet literally everyone who I've personally talked to says that they've had no problems at all.

Here's my theory: The people why you've personally talked to are people who still have the fences, or else you wouldn't know to talk to them. If they still have the fence, they're probably happy with it. The people on the board, though, who've used them and are not happy with them, are people who now have chain fences or just don't let their dogs outside, so if you met them in person you wouldn't think to ask them about their experiences with fences.

 

[StunnedMonkey]

Here's my theory: The people why you've personally talked to are people who still have the fences, or else you wouldn't know to talk to them. If they still have the fence, they're probably happy with it. The people on the board, though, who've used them and are not happy with them, are people who now have chain fences or just don't let their dogs outside, so if you met them in person you wouldn't think to ask them about their experiences with fences.

Well, I suppose that's a reasonable point with regards to the people in my neighborhood that I spoke with, though it still doesn't explain why no one on Chaz seems to have ever met or heard of anyone with a similarly good experience. I just think that there's a herd mentality here on a few subjects, and invisible fencing seems to me to be one of them.

 

[Lizmo]

StunnedMoney, could you tell me how you trained your dog with the IF?

I've not met one dog yet that doesn't have fear in it's eyes' because of the IF.

 

[Lizmo]

I actually had a question about the IFs, when your entire yard is fenced and you go to take your dog out of your yard for a walk do they resist you because they think they are going to be electrocuted or is there someway you train them that they can go through on a leash.

Yes. I have a friend who has (well had, still has one) dogs that, NOTHING would make them go out of that yard. NOTHING. They were literaly scared out of their skin to get near the edge of the fence. Didn't matter what dog/car/cat/person was on the other side.

My friend was saying her dog won't come for the life of her out of the fence for a walk, she had no clue why though

 

[StunnedMonkey]

StunnedMoney, could you tell me how you trained your dog with the IF?

I don't have one, and as such I didn't train my dog with one. I merely looked into it and talked to folks in my neighborhood who used them. I was just commenting on what seems to be a 180 degree difference between the experiences of those I talked to as compared to the prevailing attitude on Chaz.

 

[Lizmo]

Oh, my bad. I read "investigated" as "invested"

 

[MafiaPrincess]

I know people who have them and like them. But they also have wildlife coming through their yard, and have to keep an eye on the dogs.. It's never 'safe'.. And they've had strange dogs come into the yard and chase their dogs as the dogs tried to avoid the perimeter of the fence..

 

[adojrts]

My sister has IF for their dog, to my knowledge they haven't had any problems. That being said, many years ago, I invested a small fortune and had 5 acres done (yep 5) in IF. Then the coyote population became a problem........
I wont take a chance with my dogs and no longer use it. Plus I had a dog that would sit (and yes they were all trained correctly on it) in the 'zone' until he wore down the batteries. Then he went where he pleased. But my biggest concern was them being out there unprotected from other dogs and coyotes.
I now have yards, runs and my agility ring built with welded wire, it has been great, nothing can get in and it was very reasonable in price to put up.

I would also never use the IF on a pup, for many valid reasons. One reason is that pups have to have supervision just as young children do, the risks are just too high.
Another point to consider............very easy for someone to steal your pup/dog with IF.

 

[Georgygirl]

Well, maybe I'm one of the few who had a good experience with IF. My parents have it for their beagle. They live in a very wooded area, so a real fence wasn't really an option. They also live in a very rural area however with very little traffic, so if she did break through, which she doesn't, its unlikely she'd get hit by a car. She actually doesn't need to have it turned on anymore. She knows where the boundaries are and doesn't even attempt to cross them. Not to chase a squirrel, a rabbit, or anything. But she's not out there by herself for very long. As far as other dogs coming in, yup, that happens. Chester, the neighbor dog comes to visit quite often (he was a stray that a neighbor took in and fixed who apparently misses his roaming days). They haven't had any problems with their IF, but I know a lot of people who have had problems. It's definitely a hit and miss deal. My grandmother has one for her rottweiler, and she also hasn't had any problems with it. For some dogs it works, and for others it doesn't, but the tricky part is, you won't know until you spend some money putting it in. You may just end up with a useless underground wire surrounding your house. But that is my experience with IF, I neither endorse nor denounce it. It all depends on the dog.

 

[Saintgirl]

We even went as far as buying one...but that's where it ended, we did not even have it installed. We were renting a house where we didn't have the option of putting up a real fence. Yes, we had heard of people who had a good experience with them, however we decided in the end that it went against our philosophy of dog training- fear based training wasn't something we were comfortable with. Plain and simple, I do not shock my dogs. So when the dogs went outside- so did we.

It doesn't have anything to do with jumping on a band wagon and following the masses. IF's do not fall into our positive reinforcement based training methods. AND I do not beleive that they are a safe method of containing a dog, the risk factors are too high.

 

[pafla]

IF are not available in Croatia and I am happy they arent.I cant understand why would anyone think a good idea to teach a dog that if he pass the boundaries it gets shocked.this goes against everything I belive in.Yes dogs are animals and sometimes you need a lot of time to teach them something but that is not excuse for cruelty.If you dont have conditions to keep a dog dont get one.It is similary to using electric-shock collars and they are not allowed in Croatia.They are better ways to train a dog to recall and even with a solid fence I wouldnt leave a dog in yard without supervision.

 

[RedyreRottweilers]

I do not believe that IF are cruel. I have used one. The dogs do not continually get shocked. The shock/correction is preceded by an audible warning tone. The dog quickly develops the same aversion to the tone as it has to the shock/correction. Therefore, the dog learns to stay away from areas where the collar generates the tone. You can adjust the width of the "band" that generates the tone to suit the dog. Some dogs need wider bands so they stay further away from the shock boundary, some don't.

I also have parents who use an IF to very good results. They have a boxer. They also do not have free roaming dogs in their neighborhood.

The 2 major drawbacks to this sort of fencing are:

dogs can, do, and will escape from IF. Power outages, battery failure, and extreme distractions can cause dogs to leave the IF boundary. Then they cannot/will not get back in.

There is no physical barrier to keep out people, children, dogs, other animals.

Both these reasons make this fencing absolutely unsuitable for any breed that is territorial. SOME PEOPLE may use IF to their good advantage. For me, it is NEVER suitable for containing a Rottweiler, and I would not recommend it to anyone, for both of the above reasons, even tho I have close personal experience with people who use IF successfully with their dogs.

JMO as always.

 

[StunnedMonkey]

Both these reasons make this fencing absolutely unsuitable for any breed that is territorial. SOME PEOPLE may use IF to their good advantage. For me, it is NEVER suitable for containing a Rottweiler, and I would not recommend it to anyone, for both of the above reasons, even tho I have close personal experience with people who use IF successfully with their dogs.

Yeah, I absolutely agree. On reason we opted not to get one is that Darby is a terrier and inclined to be a bit of a chaser. Even though there's really not much in the way of chaseable wildlife in ouir neighborhood, we just weren't comfortable with the idea, though Invisible Fence did offer a money back guarantee if it didn't work out.

There's no question that an invisible fence is inferior in all respects to a physical fence. But sometimes a physical fence is not an option (as in our neighborhood) so the choice is bewteen an IF and no fence at all. Obviously no fence at all doesn't keep kids and other animals out any more than an IF. I think that for certain dogs in certain situations, an IF is a reasonable alternative to having no containment system at all, so long as it isn't treated as a true "fence", which it most certainly is not.

 

[houndlove]

The thing about a good, solid, physical fence is that it will contain any dog. Invisible fences may contain some dogs but others may develop problems with them, ranging from choosing to escape them to the several horror stories I've heard of the initial training gone horribly wrong and now the dog is afraid of the WHOLE yard, not just the perimeter zone. To be sure that's not going to happen every time. But you won't know if it's going to be your dog who has an invisible fence issue until you spend the money, install it, and perhaps do some serious permanent damage to the dog in the process (in the case of dogs who are so soft or naturally anxious that they generalize the shock to being afraid of the entire yard).

A physical fence works every time. An invisible fence works sometimes. Myself, for the safety of my dogs, I'll go with the sure thing. And I'd never choose to move to a neighborhood that dictated how I was allowed to contain my dogs. I guess that's why I live in the city--no HOAs telling me how I can paint my house or ensure the safety of my dogs or what kind of mailbox I can have.