Intros... Clicker Newb

[Sean5033]

Hey People!

After lurking here on the boards for a few months, I've decided to take a chance on clicker training for my 5 month old JRT, Domino, and her 10 year old sister JRT, Julie. Here's a little bit of background that hopefully will help you get to know me and my dogs a little.

We adopted Julie about two years ago, her owner was an old roomate. He moved away and left here here with us. She's a Three Legged JRT, and she has a Myspace profile at http://www.myspace.com/threelegJRT. She was *very* well trained when she first moved here, and I've noticed she's slipping a *lot*. I think it's mostly because there's not very much consistency in her routine (My girlfriend lives with us, and I've got two roomates, and a 5 mo. old pup). My GF (Melissa) and I are usually close to being on the same page, but there's still little differences. I'm hoping that while we put Domino through 15-30 minutes of puppy training a day, we can reinforce some structure back into Julies Training.

Domino's our pup, born on 6/6/06, not only is she a JRT, she's a little demon puppy (she's not NEARLY as bad as some other pups, I just think that's fun to say because she was born on 666). We've had her since she was about 8 or 9 weeks old, and she still doesn't quite get the housetraining thing. I've been leaving the door open a lot recently because the weather has been REALLY nice. But she won't even make an attempt to go outside on her own. let alone signal. Mel and I have been consistently *not* punishing her, but if we catch her in the act we'll say "HEY!", pick her up and take her outside, or lead her outside we think she can make it.

I started clicker training yesterday and I've already seen some changes. Julie is a little bit more agressive. I think she picked it up when I was trying to associate the clicker to treats. That initial free-for-all Click-treat-Click-Treat. I was alternatin, but I think I might need to seperate them completly in the future. On the other hand, Domino is a lot more responsive to Come, Sit, and even Go To your Room.

As a newbie to Clicker Training, it seems like I'm giving out a LOT of treats. between the two dogs, it seems like a lot more than I should. I've always thought that a good neck rub, or ear scratch should be enough. My parents dog has my parents trained to give her treats all the time. She even does a "Trick" every morning, where they open the door, she runs out about 6 feet, they call her back, and she gets a treat. It's cute, but I always saw the treats as the cause of the problem. It seemed they handed them out like crazy, and it had side effects like that.

A positive side effect is I feel like I'm a photographer. When I see a behavior I like (specifically, the one I just asked for) I click the button and "take a picture" of it hoping to see it again. I'm really excited about this experiment for my dogs. Almost *TOO* excited at this point. I want to keep the sessions longer than 10-15 minutes, and a lot more often than I should. Hopefully it won't wear off for either me, or them.

I found ClickerLessons.com. Are there any other resources I should know about out there on the Web?

Thanks!
-Sean

edit: I just realized there's an intro forum, mods, can we move this over there?

 

[Doberluv]

Welcome Sean. I hope to see some pictures of your litte demon dog and your older one.

Be sure and browse the training and puppy forums for ideas too. There will be many common problems or questions that you might get answers to there.

I think this is great how you're taking such an interest in training.

Once a behavior is learned well and the dog is giving you a correct response about 95% of the time, you can go to a variable reward schedule with the treats and/or find something else which is a real hit with your pup; a favorite toy for a minute. I know what you mean about the worry over calories. Some people measure out their dogs food and use some of it throughout the day as a reinforcement. If that is exciting enough for your pup, you can do that or do that for easier things and maybe save the treats for harder things or working in distractions where you really need them to be "into" training. Are you making the treats very tiny? Like the size of a pea?

She probably just needs to be shown some more about going outside to pee, rather than leaving it up to her at this point. You don't want to risk not reinforcing her for a success, so I'd think it would be best to make sure you go with her every time still.

I recommend you read a few books besides the sites on the Internet. A few of my favorites are:

Culture Clash, by Jean Donaldson (this one is especially good and will help you not only with clicker training, but how dogs most likely think and learn)

The Power of Positive Training, by Pat Miller (this is an easy read and fun....lots of tricks)

Don't Shoot the Dog by Karen Pryor (she's the dolophin trainer who revolutionized clicker training for dogs)

Another fantastic book is: Dogs, A Startling New Understanding of Canine Origin, Behavior and Evolution by Ray and Lorna Coppinger (absolutely fascinating!)

Here is another good website: http://www.clickersolutions.com/articles/index.htm

Anyhow....for behavior or training info, questions etc, go to the training forum or the puppy forum.

Glad you decided to join us!

 

[Sean5033]

Some pics are on Julies MySpace profile. http://www.myspace.com/ThreeLegJRT I don't think you need to log in to see them. Maybe I'll post pics on the forums later on.

I went to BJ's and bought about 3 or 4 pounds of doggie beef jerky. It's like a lamb/rice combo. I break up a stick into 1/4 inch squares and it lasts for about 5 minutes of training.

thanks for the reading material. I'll check those out on Amazon.

One other thing, my GF isn't quite as into this as I am, she thinks I'm Ghandi because I try not to get upset and yell at the dogs. Is there a good way I could try to sell her on this method?

 

[Doberluv]

One other thing, my GF isn't quite as into this as I am, she thinks I'm Ghandi because I try not to get upset and yell at the dogs. Is there a good way I could try to sell her on this method?

Only by education. If she is willing to take an interest in this more, and she reads a little, that would help. Just tell her, for now...that yelling and getting all intense doesn't show leadership and only causes a dog confusion and distrust. And to train a dog properly, he needs to trust his owners and feel secure. A flailing, emotional, yelling, uptight, slapping owner does nothing but confuse a dog and cause fear.

Understanding the dog's different stages in developement and what to expect is necessary. Understanding that dogs don't think like people, don't have our morals or values, are opportunistic and out for themselves is important. They wouldn't have survived and evolved into these domestic creatures if they didn't care about doing things which please them. LOL.

So, to train them to learn our rules and ways means showing them what we mean in a way they can understand and reinforcing them with something they like or need when they comply. But they have to know what it is we they're suppose to do. Everyone learns this way. You do behaviors which give you some kind of payoff and you don't engage in behaviors (for very long) which do not. It's really very simple. So you find out what motivates your dog and manipulate his environment so he has a better chance at succeeding. You emphasise what he IS doing right and distract, give alternatives when he's engaged in behaviors you don't like.

So many people yell at dogs and the dog hasn't received enough reinforcements for a wanted behavior so naturally, they're not going to do it. When a dog persists in engaging in undesireable behavior, it is because it is being reinforced for that behavior, no other reason. So, often it is the owner's fault that their dog is misbehaving because they've been teaching it TO misbehave..... and then they go and yell at it. They think they're being stubborn or naughty, deceitful or retaliating....and those are human thought processes. Dogs do not have the ability to think the way humans do.

There are systematic and logical ways to train a dog using positive methods. It's all a matter of education and patience. Positive methods do not mean permissiveness as some misguided people assume. The rules and manners that everyone wants are taught. It's HOW they're taught which makes the difference...makes a more trusting dog, a dog who is more engaged in training as a participant rather than a dog who is forced, a dog who learns how to learn better and it just makes more sense to a dog. It's scientific learning theory and all mammals learn this way.

I hope you'll read Culture Clash and hopefully, she will too. (give her a payoff if she reads even one page. LOL) It's very good and it would be the top of my list of what to read first.

I'll go take a look at your pictures.