Interesting Border Collie puppy colour...

[Legend]

A friend had brought these puppy to my attention and shared with me. I've never seen puppies come out like this ...

 

[~Jessie~]

Whoa, they're really cool looking!

I want one

 

[Linds]

That is crazy!

Anyone know what that's called? You gotta keep up pictures with these, I want to see what they look like all grown up and their coat fully in

 

[Bahamutt99]

I feel like I've seen that color before, in a link on here. Bah.

 

[Legend]

So far I've seen Silver mentioned alot on the page. If anyone wants I can send you link to their page!

 

[MericoX]

You need to get one! They look like racoons. lol

 

[Legend]

You need to get one! They look like racoons. lol

If they weren't in the United State I might have though about it, even though I really shouldn't.

 

[Saeleofu]

They look like little blue roan horses :rofl1:

They're adorable!

 

[Shai]

Yeah they are strange. According to the breeder the color DNA test on one pup came back K'B/K'B, B/B, D/d, E/e, a't/a't. Which basically means they are genetically Black/White (carrying dilute and yellow/red) and some untested-for modifier is likely acting on the color.

 

[ravennr]

They do look like blue roan horses!
I'd love to see them grown up.

 

[Emily]

Yeah they are strange. According to the breeder the color DNA test came back K'B/K'B, B/B, D/d, E/e, a't/a't. Which basically means they are genetically Black/White (carrying dilute and yellow/red) and some untested-for modifier is likely acting on the color.

That is soooo cool. I'd love to see them pass this modifier along. How fascinating.

Not mention that they're beautiful!

 

[SarahHound]

They are gorgeous!

 

[Laurelin]

Interesting! I've never seen anything like it. I showed this to one of my color genetics buff friends and she said:

Reminds me a lot of fever coat kittens, my guess would be it's the same phenomena:
http://www.catforum.com/forum/36-cat-chat/124422-new-kitten-rare-color-what-breed.html
http://www.catforum.com/forum/36-cat-chat/125591-fever-coat-wierd-roan-kitty.html
http://www.catforum.com/forum/39-breeding/129641-mysterious-coat-color-change.html
http://www.flickr.com/photos/25787579@N00/511483189/
In cats, it's not genetic but rather caused by the queen going through something like fever or an infection during the pregnancy, which affects the colour of the offspring. However, as they grow, the new hair will almost always grow out in the normal colour and they'll eventually look like regular adults (looks like the puppies already have more solid black on the legs compared to the photos of them as very young so they do appear to be changing colour). I've never seen it in dogs before, neat! If you can, be sure to keep us updated on how their colour progresses as they age.

 

[Shai]

That is soooo cool. I'd love to see them pass this modifier along. How fascinating.

Not mention that they're beautiful!

Well apparently there was a similar litter in the UK a few years ago. They are unsure whether it's the same effect but in that case the pups eventually shed out the silver and those areas because essentially black. So if it's the same these pup will have a very strange puppyhood but become black/white with traditional markings.

 

[Emily]

Well apparently there was a similar litter in the UK a few years ago. They are unsure whether it's the same effect but in that case the pups eventually shed out the silver and those areas because essentially black. So if it's the same these pup will have a very strange puppyhood but become black/white with traditional markings.

Mmm. That's almost more interesting! I get really geeked about genetics.

 

[Shai]

Laurelin that's very interesting, I wondered if it was something like that. In rabbits, if the mother rabbit became sick while pregnant or if the kits were born in the winter and somehow fell out of the nesting box and were chilled before being replaced, their coats would come in a sort of slate grey. But by the time they were six months old or so, they would be the traditional Himalayan coloring again (these were Californian rabbits).

 

[curiouscolor]

I joined this forum just now because I am interested in the color of this litter.

There is a heated discussion going on right now on a blog (and a Collie list I understand) about a line in the Collie breed that produces similarly colored pups.

So, my first question is what color were the parents of these pups? Are there photos.

It looks, to me, like a form of dilute - and apparently it is not dd by test. Next I would look at the possibility of a variant of merle which is why I am asking about he parent's color.

This is a beautiful litter. I would imagine the reason for the black head coloring is that they are masked (E'm' on the extension locus - some testers differentiate it from E and some do not).

CC

 

[Laurelin]

Well apparently there was a similar litter in the UK a few years ago. They are unsure whether it's the same effect but in that case the pups eventually shed out the silver and those areas because essentially black. So if it's the same these pup will have a very strange puppyhood but become black/white with traditional markings.

That sounds pretty much like what my friend was describing a fever coat in cats as being. From the links though it's not a genetic modifier or anything just a result of trauma in the womb.

I wonder how it would look on a non-black coat. I wonder if you'd even be able to see it at all.

 

[~Jessie~]

Can I have a link to the page?

 

[Emily]

I would imagine the reason for the black head coloring is that they are masked (E'm' on the extension locus).

CC

Well, the problem with that is that the pups also display dark extremities - their legs, where not marked with white, are also dark.

They do look almost like pointed cats/rabbits/rats etc, and the fever coat theory makes sense.

I want their to be a pointed gene in dogs though. As opposed as I am to color breeding, I love pointed animals! Want.