IMPORTANT: Can they reallly take him?

[jason_els]

If you REALLY want to be mean, er proactive...give your roommates instructions to call the police on your sister for trespassing if she ever shows up again.

Actually...

Family is irreplacable and, no matter what, they'll be involved in some form of your life for the rest of yours. It's heartbreaking to see your family in such turmoil. If only for your peace of mind, I'd like to suggest you seek a family counselor who could help you repair this rift with your family. Do you or your mom have a clergy person whom you could talk to? Many times having an impartial person to act as referee can help with severe family problems.

Even if you have written-off your family, counseling can at least help to create peace, if not love, among family members. It's one thing to have no contact, another to have family members actively seeking to create problems in your life. Counseling can't make people love each other but at least it may help you get a peace treaty between you and your family so that you can live your life without their harassment. At best, a good counselor can bring your family together and help heal wounds. At worst, your family may not cooperate but, if they don't, at least you have the moral peace of mind and satisfaction of knowing you did what you could to help repair things between you and it was they who rejected your suggestion to help patch things. Seeking a counselor can help you be happy and help you all move on with a happier life.

Knowing you tried to patch things, knowing you made an effort to resolve problems, even if it doesn't work, will be extremely important to you. Regret is a terrible phantom. Don't let it haunt you. If your family decides not to participate then that's their misfortune. You can't control their actions but you can control yours. Resolving these problems, one way or the other, will help you lead a better life.

I wish you luck!

 

[Zoom]

Jason, I know you haven't been here for long, so I say this with the nicest intentions.

The best thing in the world for Babyblue is to create as much distance as possible between her and her family. It's a never ending source of toxicity for her. Counciling, I feel, would only give her family more ammo to use against her.

 

[adoptashelterpettoday]

This was brought up on another forum. If your name is on his vet papers, you could prove ownership.

The other forum suggested the person go & get the dog microchipped in their name ASAP. Easy way to prove ownership..

 

[KellyB]

Ok, I am a lawyer and what I do know is that in a lot of states, but not all, dogs are considered personal property. Which means that, unfortunately, it doesn't matter who treated the dog better, took care of him etc. It's not like custody of a kid . . . but what they need to do is establish ownership of the dog. Just because your sister's name is on the paperwork does not make her the legal owner. For example, you could argue that Lucas was a gift, in which case you have a legal right to keep him.

I would say do some research on animal laws in your state. Most states have this on their website somewhere. Also, you might want to go to your county courthouse and ask them how to apply for a temporary restraining order or emergency protective order to stop them from taking the dog until it is resolved in the legal system.

Sorry this is happening, I feel so bad!

 

[SeniorPetLover]

Atleast here in Texas, Possession is 9/10ths of the law.

Yep...here in IL too...keep your doors locked and a close eye on him so they can't get their hands on him...I'd even have him microchipped with your name if he hasn't been already...

 

[ToscasMom]

Well your sister certainly has a touch of the evil in her doesn't she? It will be interesting to see how well she makes it thru life with that streak. That having been said, do you think your mother would do that to you?

 

[Babyblue5290]

So far today she hasn't contacted me or tried coming over or anything today. So *crosses fingers* here's hoping.

I told my roomates not to let her any where near and if she pushes it to call the cops. I have all his papers (vaccination records included as he jst got those done again) in a file cabinet thing.

The state you live in will have interpretations of the laws regarding transfer of ownership of livestock.

If you have bills from the vet, great. What's very important is in whose name is the dog's license?

Get copies of everything you've signed at the vet's.

Get receipts for the dog license. If you don't have a copy, get one from your town or village.

If your family shows-up on your doorstep with a police officer demanding the dog, it's a good idea to have papers showing active ownership. The chances of that happening are slim and none but I've seen some stupid things in my life and these are documents you should have copies of anyway.

First, laws regarding animal ownership are generally very old and different states interpret things either expressly in law and in other ways in their interpretation of what's called, "common law," meaning no legislature has enacted a particular law but, instead, courts have interpreted legal principals to answer questions of animal ownership. Some of these principals go back centuries.

The situation you're in depends on the laws of your state because there are a variety of ways livestock laws are interpreted. In some states you would be the legal owner because you have possessed and cared for the dog for so long that the law considers your mother to have abandoned it to your care and thus surrendered ownership by action rather than express contract (meaning you received the dog in exchange for something else). Other states may hold that your mom, no matter what your action is, only leant you the dog and may recover it at any time because she has a receipt of purchase and you don't.

To know what to do, the best thing is to contact a lawyer. Counties have legal aid societies who will offer services to you on a sliding scale fee which means you pay only what you can afford to. If you can find a lawyer that loves dogs, all the better. Call them and ask for a consultation. It shouldn't take long and if it's a simple matter (in the eyes of the law) you will likely not be charged a thing. At the very least, explain your situation, be completely and totally honest, and ask the lawyer what you can do to protect your custody of the dog. It may mean convincing your mother to sign a document saying you are now the legal owner and you giving your mother $1.00 or something like that, or it may mean gathering documentation to prove your case should your family sue you for return of the dog.

If you live in Louisiana be absolutely certain to go see a lawyer because their legal system is different from the rest of the country and family can lay special claims upon your property.

Your family sounds like it's experiencing some serious problems and I'm sorry to read that. I think that, if you want to sleep well at night and know what they can or cannot do legally, you need to speak to someone who knows the law about this sort of thing because if anything happens you'll be prepared to act immediately and have the documentation you need to prove ownership or, at least, to mount a defense.

Good luck!

Ok I want Lucas to stay with me and be safe, but I'm not sure how much I want to go to a lawyer right now. I hope that doesn't sound too selfish. I think I'll have all his papers, keep a good eye on him for a whle and I'm trying to get my friend (who family doesn't know about of course) to take him while no one is home. My roomates know not to let her near him. I just hope they don't do anything!

Oh I'm in washington.

Babyblue... so sorry to hear this! I know it must be stressful not getting along with family and being threatened by a sibling. In this instance, Spiritus is absolutely right. Possession is 9/10th's of the law. You are in Pierce county, if I'm not mistaken. Just for your peace of mind, go to animal control tommorrow and license Lucas in your name. In your county, unless your mother were to get an attorney, it is animal control they would send to your home to verify ownership. Licensing is what you need to show proof of ownership here. Your mom may have papers of some sort, but yours will be with the most current date. The county has no jurisdiction in that instance as it's a civil matter, if I'm not mistaken. They'll then have to reccommend your mom take you to court to resolve it there. I have a feeling your mom, after 3 years of disinterest in ownership, will not invest the money or time in persueing this in court. If you need any help, give me a ring. I'm 40 minutes from you. Will email you. Again, sorry to hear there are serious issues in the family.

Thanks Otch. I have Lucas' liscence in my name already so I have that.
Replied to your PM

Did your sister say WHY she even wanted him now??? (sorry if I missed this somewhere)

It sounds like a tantrum, but she should have at least given you an excuse as to why.
And I am with most of the others in saying..........Yep, if you have fed him, cared for him........and have vet bills to prove it, I doubt they could LEGALLY take him.

I mean, some states will call you the owner of a stray if you have been seen feeding it a couple of times.

No, she didn't give any reason as to why she wanted to take him in the first place, but to be fair I didn't give her a chance or even ask why she wanted to. I just told her no.

 

[Babyblue5290]

I am so sorry to hear you have this kind of situation with your sister. Have you spoken with your mother? You should and find out where she stands on this. You've already received a lot of information about what the law probably is and good ideas for establishing even further your official ownership of him. However, I'm still concerned about what your sister might do illegally. If your room mates answer the door, even if they tell her she can't come in, what if she barges through and takes Lucus? I'm just wondering about taking him to a friends further away, secretly for a while until you think this has for sure blown over. Or at least when you're gone, taking him somewhere where your sister wouldn't guess where he is. (?) Or you could tell your roommates if she pushes into the house, to call the police. Everyone else is probably right....that she's just being mean and getting a rise out of you and probably doesn't even want the dog. Do let us know how it goes. And I hope this is the last of it. What a mean sister. My sister would never do that to me. A dog would never come between us. I'm just so sorry that you're having this stress. (((hugs)))

Roommates told to cal lthe police if she get's pushy, I've asked another friend to take him while no one is here just in case (waiting for answer on that one) and have all his papers.

Thanks

Ditto to what everyone else has said!

If you REALLY want to be mean, er proactive...give your roommates instructions to call the police on your sister for trespassing if she ever shows up again.

Told them! Good suggestion!

Actually...

Family is irreplaceable and, no matter what, they'll be involved in some form of your life for the rest of yours. It's heartbreaking to see your family in such turmoil. If only for your peace of mind, I'd like to suggest you seek a family counselor who could help you repair this rift with your family. Do you or your mom have a clergy person whom you could talk to? Many times having an impartial person to act as referee can help with severe family problems.

Even if you have written-off your family, counseling can at least help to create peace, if not love, among family members. It's one thing to have no contact, another to have family members actively seeking to create problems in your life. Counseling can't make people love each other but at least it may help you get a peace treaty between you and your family so that you can live your life without their harassment. At best, a good counselor can bring your family together and help heal wounds. At worst, your family may not cooperate but, if they don't, at least you have the moral peace of mind and satisfaction of knowing you did what you could to help repair things between you and it was they who rejected your suggestion to help patch things. Seeking a counselor can help you be happy and help you all move on with a happier life.

Knowing you tried to patch things, knowing you made an effort to resolve problems, even if it doesn't work, will be extremely important to you. Regret is a terrible phantom. Don't let it haunt you. If your family decides not to participate then that's their misfortune. You can't control their actions but you can control yours. Resolving these problems, one way or the other, will help you lead a better life.

I wish you luck!

Really, they wouldn't go to counciling if I asked, nor would I ask them to. I have tried to just deal with them and be nice. I have tried to make things work and it always leads to a bad ending. I really do wish it wasn't like this, I wish they where different that things where different and that I had a semi-nice family, it just doesn't seem like that will ever happen. Everytime I deal with them I end up even more hurt and stressed and I can't handle it. I can't deal with them anymore.

Jason, I know you haven't been here for long, so I say this with the nicest intentions.

The best thing in the world for Babyblue is to create as much distance as possible between her and her family. It's a never ending source of toxicity for her. Counciling, I feel, would only give her family more ammo to use against her.

Sad, but true. I would've just tried to go to college somewhere else too if it wasn't for Lucas and my brother.

This was brought up on another forum. If your name is on his vet papers, you could prove ownership.

The other forum suggested the person go & get the dog microchipped in their name ASAP. Easy way to prove ownership..

He's microchiped in my name and new address/phone number

Well your sister certainly has a touch of the evil in her doesn't she? It will be interesting to see how well she makes it thru life with that streak. That having been said, do you think your mother would do that to you?

Yeah, just a touch.

Well.....it's not really a question of if my mother would do that, it's if my father would. If my father decides he wants to do that my mother will do what she's told to. And I keep going back and forth as to weither he would go through that or not. Part of me says he wouldn't waste his time and go to court, but then the other part thinks he might. IDK really.

 

[Paige]

Oh my god! I'd shoot her if she was trying to take one of my dogs away from me. I doubt anyone would dare try and take my dogs away though. Bandit wouldn't leave with anyone. He won't even go out for a potty without me with him.

Anyways, from me watching Cristina's Court the lady said that whoever purchased the dog legally owns it and if in the goodness of there heart they want to sign something saying they'll give it to you then they can. However, another thing comes it about you paying for him for 5 months on your own. I know with live stock (unless I read it incorrectly) if the owner fails to pay you for feed, board, vet or whatever the agreement was you become the legal owner but that might be different for dogs.

 

[MafiaPrincess]

I worried about this for a while actually..

Roomate bought Cider. Roomate 4-5 months later decided she had enough and was going to toss her in the pound.. I took her home.

I have all the paperwork from that time period.. but her name, her credit card was attached to all of it. I had her put my name as owner at the vet before we moved, otherwise they wouldn't let me access her records.. I bought the dog license.. I was hoping that whatever the current papertrail I had would be enough if she decided later she wanted her back.

Well it's been 2 years.. and it's a huge papertrail now, so I really don't worry anymore. On another forum I know of two people who had to take similar issues to court, both judges ruled in favour of the original owner.. BUT they calculated up the expenses of 'babysitting' the dogs in question for the year plus they were in anothers care. The bills both came to over 2 grand.. and the original owners neither wanted ot pay money like that to get their dog back...

So they both got to keep their dogs due to the original owners lack of love, unwillingness to pay the 'babysitting' costs in their absence.

So I think no matter how it ended up going, you have a lot in your favour and I wouldn't worry too too much.

 

[smkie]

I don't think you need to worry legally,your vet care, and good dog ownership for the last couple of years will stand well for you, as well as your shelter work too,, but make sure they don't try the underhanded way. Have you any idea what put this insane idea in their heads? It has to be a power move but why now?

 

[mrsgrubby]

so sorry, I would have been so scared too if someone showed up to take my babies.

I sure wonder why all the sudden your sister wanted him? Very suspicious!!!!

Hope they leave you alone now

 

[Babyblue5290]

Still no word from any of them!

I worried about this for a while actually..

Roomate bought Cider. Roomate 4-5 months later decided she had enough and was going to toss her in the pound.. I took her home.

I have all the paperwork from that time period.. but her name, her credit card was attached to all of it. I had her put my name as owner at the vet before we moved, otherwise they wouldn't let me access her records.. I bought the dog license.. I was hoping that whatever the current papertrail I had would be enough if she decided later she wanted her back.

Well it's been 2 years.. and it's a huge papertrail now, so I really don't worry anymore. On another forum I know of two people who had to take similar issues to court, both judges ruled in favour of the original owner.. BUT they calculated up the expenses of 'babysitting' the dogs in question for the year plus they were in anothers care. The bills both came to over 2 grand.. and the original owners neither wanted ot pay money like that to get their dog back...

So they both got to keep their dogs due to the original owners lack of love, unwillingness to pay the 'babysitting' costs in their absence.

So I think no matter how it ended up going, you have a lot in your favour and I wouldn't worry too too much.

Yes, it's seeming like I have a ton in my favor on this! Lucas' vet bills for one! He's racked up a nice little bundel of cash for that!!

I don't think you need to worry legally,your vet care, and good dog ownership for the last couple of years will stand well for you, as well as your shelter work too,, but make sure they don't try the underhanded way. Have you any idea what put this insane idea in their heads? It has to be a power move but why now?

I'm not sure why now. Things have been going pretty good for me and I haven't had any contact with her for a while, until she came over. I don't know what she was thinking!

so sorry, I would have been so scared too if someone showed up to take my babies.

I sure wonder why all the sudden your sister wanted him? Very suspicious!!!!

Hope they leave you alone now

Yes, it is suspicious!! Thank you.