If Martin Richling and Ceaser Milan don't know how to train dogs...
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I understand that Richling trains K-9 dogs, and I know you have to train them a special way because they deal with police etc... but does he train all non K-9 dogs the way he trains K-9's?
I didn't like the way he thought him and his dogs were more superior then us regular pet owners. All dogs are created equal. Some may have more training then others, but that doesn't make them "better" than another persons dog.
I didn't like the way he thought him and his dogs were more superior then us regular pet owners. All dogs are created equal. Some may have more training then others, but that doesn't make them "better" than another persons dog.
Both methods do work. IME postive works better. But even if we said they worked equally. Why do people feel the need to physically punish those weaker than them?
I to started out using positive punishment. It was not nearly as fast or thorough as the training I do now. My dogs progress faster than others in our local club who do use punishment.
If you all want to suppress your dogs into what ever type of 'obedience' you can. I have dogs because I love dogs, I have a great respect for all living creatures..I don't wish to do anything to them to diminish them. I don't see them as my enemy who needs to be forced to submit, a slave with me as Master. I see them as partners, with me leading in the dance. My dogs obey, because they respect me, trust me, like me. Not because they have come to fear me, or what I can do to them.
This is my one and only post on this subject as there is nothing I can add to what DR and Doberluv have said. For those of you who wish to believe the earth is flat, I am glad it works for you.
I to started out using positive punishment. It was not nearly as fast or thorough as the training I do now. My dogs progress faster than others in our local club who do use punishment.
If you all want to suppress your dogs into what ever type of 'obedience' you can. I have dogs because I love dogs, I have a great respect for all living creatures..I don't wish to do anything to them to diminish them. I don't see them as my enemy who needs to be forced to submit, a slave with me as Master. I see them as partners, with me leading in the dance. My dogs obey, because they respect me, trust me, like me. Not because they have come to fear me, or what I can do to them.
This is my one and only post on this subject as there is nothing I can add to what DR and Doberluv have said. For those of you who wish to believe the earth is flat, I am glad it works for you.
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I didn't want to start an argument.. lol.. sorry!
I just wanted to know a proper way to train a dog was, and I got my answer.. whatever works best for you and your dog
I just wanted to know a proper way to train a dog was, and I got my answer.. whatever works best for you and your dog
I really believe that people need to give positive reinforcement with love and treats a good honest try. I've never met a dog it didn't work on and I've been around dogs all my life.
P
I have been swamped lately and haven't been able to respond to any of these recent "training" threads but I have skimmed through them and I'm speechless.....ALMOST.
The methods used by people such as the two men being debated about are antiquated and proven to add substantial risk for less than predictable results.
As for the posters (civilians ) on this board who discount their methods as old school, primative and even dangerous - I can tell you that as a professional certified behavior specialist who works extensively (very successfully) with aggression/bite cases, I stand shoulder to shoulder with those 'civilians' and whole heartedly agree!!!!! Positive PHYSICAL punishment DOES NOT WORK RELIABLY AND IS INHUMANE!!!!!!
I DO NOT lay a hand on any of the dogs that I work with EVER. I train many dogs that outweigh me, often by 100%. Many of the dogs that I work with are at a last stop before the final needle and are what so many like to dramatically call RED ZONE. I use proven +R methods to actually effect behavior change and truly rehab. dogs who more often than not have been physically corrected to the point of total unpredictability. People who use the old yank/crank methods have chosen to remain in the dark ages.....it's a **** shame.
I see that there are a few on here who seem to merely want to hold onto their 'right' to physically punish their dogs. From where I have been (my roots in Schutz), to where I am now..I can't look back on the way that we ALL used to train without feeling physically ill. While I never participated in some of the horrible kinds of mistreatment (including the use of stave), I watched as "trainers" abused dogs to the point of screaming. It turns my stomach to read here that anyone would discount proven humane methods simply for the sake of arguement. It shows a total lack of understanding of the science behind DOMESTIC canine learning, not to mention a frightening lack of heart.
I and many other successful trainers am achieving better results, much more predictable behavior, without having to yank, hit, frighten or intimidate. The dogs that I rehab. and train today are also happier and more eager to learn. They learn quicker and maintain what they've learned, all while RETAINING ALL THAT IS DOG!
The dogs who attend my Growl classes are actually rehabilitated when they graduate. The DA and HA is no longer an issue because they actually learn to accept and in many cases even enjoy the presence of the trigger. No punishment, no avoidance...real rehabilitation.
Cesar (while very charming) and that other guy (can't even bring myself to type his name )...well, they simply have no clue that they have no clue!!!
Melissa, I have to ask you why you are so hostile to those so willing to find a kinder way to train the animal you're supposed to love. This is a dog forum after all. Please try to have an open mind to those who have more experience and an understanding for training. I've been doing this professionally for many, many years. I used to believe at least some of what you seem to want to hang onto as gospel. You are in the minority for a reason, maybe you should reflect a bit on that instead of trying to protect your right/need to punish.
The methods used by people such as the two men being debated about are antiquated and proven to add substantial risk for less than predictable results.
As for the posters (civilians
) on this board who discount their methods as old school, primative and even dangerous - I can tell you that as a professional certified behavior specialist who works extensively (very successfully) with aggression/bite cases, I stand shoulder to shoulder with those 'civilians' and whole heartedly agree!!!!! Positive PHYSICAL punishment DOES NOT WORK RELIABLY AND IS INHUMANE!!!!!!I DO NOT lay a hand on any of the dogs that I work with EVER. I train many dogs that outweigh me, often by 100%. Many of the dogs that I work with are at a last stop before the final needle and are what so many like to dramatically call RED ZONE. I use proven +R methods to actually effect behavior change and truly rehab. dogs who more often than not have been physically corrected to the point of total unpredictability. People who use the old yank/crank methods have chosen to remain in the dark ages.....it's a **** shame.
I see that there are a few on here who seem to merely want to hold onto their 'right' to physically punish their dogs. From where I have been (my roots in Schutz), to where I am now..I can't look back on the way that we ALL used to train without feeling physically ill. While I never participated in some of the horrible kinds of mistreatment (including the use of stave), I watched as "trainers" abused dogs to the point of screaming. It turns my stomach to read here that anyone would discount proven humane methods simply for the sake of arguement. It shows a total lack of understanding of the science behind DOMESTIC canine learning, not to mention a frightening lack of heart.
I and many other successful trainers am achieving better results, much more predictable behavior, without having to yank, hit, frighten or intimidate. The dogs that I rehab. and train today are also happier and more eager to learn. They learn quicker and maintain what they've learned, all while RETAINING ALL THAT IS DOG!
The dogs who attend my Growl classes are actually rehabilitated when they graduate. The DA and HA is no longer an issue because they actually learn to accept and in many cases even enjoy the presence of the trigger. No punishment, no avoidance...real rehabilitation.
Cesar (while very charming) and that other guy (can't even bring myself to type his name
)...well, they simply have no clue that they have no clue!!!Melissa, I have to ask you why you are so hostile to those so willing to find a kinder way to train the animal you're supposed to love. This is a dog forum after all. Please try to have an open mind to those who have more experience and an understanding for training. I've been doing this professionally for many, many years. I used to believe at least some of what you seem to want to hang onto as gospel. You are in the minority for a reason, maybe you should reflect a bit on that instead of trying to protect your right/need to punish.
read it all and agree 100%
wish so much I lived near you, I'd be lining up for your help
There is a huge difference and it is this. Doc has been an established and well-respected member here for over a year. The "vibes" sent to her was so that she would take a break from running her training business to add the professional and scientifically backed-up knowledge to what has otherwise degenerated into a mud-slinging "verbal" fistfight.
You, on the other hand, have not been a member for even a year. You are brining in a vast number of people of whom the majority will not even stick around once these threads drop off the main page. That is known as trolling.
You, on the other hand, have not been a member for even a year. You are brining in a vast number of people of whom the majority will not even stick around once these threads drop off the main page. That is known as trolling.
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