I need some serious help

[Bug]

First let me warn you that this might be long, I have a couple of training problmes I need help with. But I do appreciate any help on any of my probles

Okay, so my girlfreind and I adopted a six month old Boston Terreir/ Beagle mix, his Name is Mr.Belvedere, but we call him belvedere for short, we've had him for a month and a half. We already had a Min Pin named Charlie who is about 16 months old, and we have had him for about a 13 months. Charlie wasnt exactly the easiest dog to train, but he did come around and now is, for the most part, a well behaved dog and seems to be getting better as the days pass.

The first problem seems to lie in Belvedere, he is so stubborn and non-responsive, which makes it almost impossible to train him to do anything. He can be such a hemeroid sometimes. Now I understand that he was six months old when we got him and has had absolutely no guidence before that, but we've had him for a month and a half and I dont even notice a little bit of a change. I dont even think he can notice the difference of when I praise him and when I scold him. I try to make it clear, when he does something good like going outside instead of inside I make it obvious that he has done well and make sure to give him a treat. But when he is bad I scold him in a very stern voice, and sometimes I grab his neck and give him a spritz of bitter apple in the mouth. But it seems like it almost has the opposite effect because he'll go back to doing something bad immediately after I scold him and spray his mouth, Im talking seconds, but I still have yet to see him go pee outside more than twice in a row, although when he pees outside he gets a lavish praise and treats. But I notice no kind of response or reaction in either way I treat him. Is there something else I should be doing because this non-responsivness is getting really frustrating. I saw something on clicker training, and Im thinking of trying that, does anybody recomend that?

The second problem my girlfriend and I are mostly to blame. We have crate trained Charlie and Belvedere since day one, but we both like for them to sleep in the bed so they are only in their crates while we are not home. Also they are allowed on the couch. At first I would have Charlie sleep in his crate while I was sleeping, and he got used to it and didnt bark or cry at night, so its not like I got weak and let him start sleeping in the bed, I just like to cuddle with my puppies while we sleep. Anyways, so once we got Belvedere he would always sleep in the bed, but never in his crate. Now a quick flashback to the first problem with Belevedere, he is impossible to train and not quite house broken. So my probelm is that Belvedere has this problem where he like to pee on my bed and he has tried to poo on it a few times but I caught him. Its getting rather annoying becuase I dont even want to lay down on my bed anymore and not only that but Im constantly washing sheets. So my question is how should I go about training both of the dogs to stay off of the bed and maybe even the couches? I really dont want to do this because like I said earlier I really enjoy my dogs sleeping in the bed with me or chillin out on the couch, but I cant have Belvedere peeing on my bed anymore, it pisses me off.

Any my final probelem is about the crates. Like I mentioned earlier, I crate train both of my dogs, and before we got Belvedere, Charlie was totally cool in his crate when it was time to go in. But now that we have Belvedere, Charlie seems to hate it, and starts to freak out as soon as he goes in. Both of them are crated in the same room, but cannot see each other. Is there any explanation or solution to this?

Thats for reading, and any ifno would begreat, THANKS!

 

[Athe]

This article should answer your questions.
http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=2&cat=1548&articleid=157

 

[juliefurry]

I like clicker training, it worked really well for my lab puppy. I was in the same kind of problem as you when I brought my pitbull mix home. He was seven months old and hadn't been housebroken or had any kind of obedience at all. It takes time but now, three months later, he is pretty good at only going outside (he hasn't had an accident in two weeks). It just takes time because your puppy is a little older and most likely set in his ways. It'll happen though, he'll eventually learn what he's suppose to learn.

 

[bridey_01]

Grabbing his neck and spraying bitter apple in his mouth will only hinder you two having a loving and trusting relationship. You can do all training without such harsh punishment. What kind of things do you "scold" him for?
Instead of scolding him, try teaching an alternate behaviour that cancels out the bad one.

 

[bubbatd]

Spraying bitter apple in his mouth makes no sense !!!! You are really confusing him.

 

[Bug]

Grabbing his neck and spraying bitter apple in his mouth will only hinder you two having a loving and trusting relationship. You can do all training without such harsh punishment. What kind of things do you "scold" him for?
Instead of scolding him, try teaching an alternate behaviour that cancels out the bad one.

I only scold him for things he should not be doing like peeing and pooping in the house, chewing on stuff I like, becoming aggresive with Charlie. I do try to give him an alternative like tons of chew toys and frequent walks ouside, but how will he know if he is doing something wrong if I dont scold him or make it clear that its wrong?

Spraying bitter apple in his mouth makes no sense !!!! You are really confusing him.

Care to elaborate? This is the only thing that seems to have somewhat of an effect. As I mentioned before he has little to no response for anything but this. When he is doing something wrong I have tried distracting him, clapping my hands, hitting my hand with a rolled up paper but nothing seems to work. I can put a tasty treat in his face while he is about to do something wrong and it will have the same effect of me hitting my hand with a rolled up paper and he will still do it. He doesnt know when hes is a "good boy" or a "bad boy", he cant tell the difference between a stern "NO" and a very happily said "GOOD BOY". So what Im trying to do is have a correlation of a bad tase when he is bad, followed with a stern "NO", and a good taste when he is good followed with a "GOOD BOY" and hopefully he will be able to decipher between the two. While training CVharlie when he was younger I never had to do this because he knew the difference. So if Im confusing him I would like to know how, and if you know of an alternative, PLEASE let me know.

 

[bridey_01]

If your dog is peeing and pooping in the house, he
1: Doesn't yet know it is wrong and,
2: Going outside to pee isn't more rewarding than going inside.
It also sounds as if your dog isn't very food motivated, if he reacts the same to "NO!" as a treat.Lots of dogs are like this, and training can be a little harder than for other dogs. What you need to do is MAKE him food motivated. This involves a little "food deprivation" ie, if you don't take some kibble now, we'll see if you take it in half an hour. Also, feed all of his food out of your hands for response to simple commands, this will help him know that you are the source of food.
Also, with the "bad taste association" thing, bubbatd is actually right. He doesn't think "He is scolding me for doing bad and treating for doing good", he thinks "Sometimes he attacks me and sometimes he feeds me".
Remember the rules of punishment "If the punishment isn't a hundred percent effective fist time, then it is torture."

 

[bridey_01]

Also, if you need to have a use for bitter apple, spray it on the things you like so he stops chewing them!

 

[casablanca1]

Housebreaking issues suck, and peeing on the bed! Argh.. It's a pain, but you need to establish a firm schedule for feeding and then walking your dog. As he's gotten away with eliminating in the house, you'll need to be twice as vigilant about getting him out on time. Dogs usually prefer to go outside, so although it'll be a kind of tiresome month or so of being hyper-strict about walking and feeding on time, it'll pay off.

Cultivate a 'Wrath Of God' voice, and use it instead of Bitter Apple when your pup's bad.

 

[juliefurry]

can your dog hear? If he can't understand "no" and "good boy" is there a possibility he is deaf? Does he respond to anything else, like if you call him?

 

[Saje]

The first problem seems to lie in Belvedere, he is so stubborn and non-responsive, which makes it almost impossible to train him to do anything. He can be such a hemeroid sometimes. Now I understand that he was six months old when we got him and has had absolutely no guidence before that, but we've had him for a month and a half and I dont even notice a little bit of a change. I dont even think he can notice the difference of when I praise him and when I scold him. I try to make it clear, when he does something good like going outside instead of inside I make it obvious that he has done well and make sure to give him a treat. But when he is bad I scold him in a very stern voice, and sometimes I grab his neck and give him a spritz of bitter apple in the mouth. But it seems like it almost has the opposite effect because he'll go back to doing something bad immediately after I scold him and spray his mouth, Im talking seconds, but I still have yet to see him go pee outside more than twice in a row, although when he pees outside he gets a lavish praise and treats. But I notice no kind of response or reaction in either way I treat him. Is there something else I should be doing because this non-responsivness is getting really frustrating. I saw something on clicker training, and Im thinking of trying that, does anybody recomend that?

Ok. First of all stop shaking him and stop spraying bitter apple in his mouth. That's not what it's meant for and you admitted that it seems to make things worse.

You need to find a way to teach your dog. I REALLY recommend that you read this page http://k9deb.com/nilif.htm about Nothing In Life is Free. It's an excellent training 'method' that will give you a lot of insight. There is more great info on that website if you have time to scan it but definitely read that page. It's very eye-opening.

Clicker training is an excellent method and would probably work well for you and your dog. This is my favourite website on it http://www.clickerlessons.com/lessons.html be sure to read the FAQ and all of the info not just the lessons.

Any my final probelem is about the crates. Like I mentioned earlier, I crate train both of my dogs, and before we got Belvedere, Charlie was totally cool in his crate when it was time to go in. But now that we have Belvedere, Charlie seems to hate it, and starts to freak out as soon as he goes in. Both of them are crated in the same room, but cannot see each other. Is there any explanation or solution to this?

Thats for reading, and any ifno would begreat, THANKS!

You don't HAVE to crate train. If it doesn't work for you than it just doesn't work. I never crate trained any of my dogs and there are many other members here who haven't. I like the idea of crates without doors so the dogs have a safe place to go that's all theirs but they aren't locked in.

Personally, I would make the bedroom off limits to both dogs until they are fully housebroken. That's just because I can't stand pee on the bed either. Anywhere else is fine but I'll keep the bedroom door closed.

Is there anywhere that you can keep them where they will be safe and separate? Another room like the kitchen or laundry room? You could put up a gate and make that their home until things are under control. Put their crates in there but don't lock them in. That way they can cuddle if they want but they still have their own space.

Make sure you give them plenty of opportunities to go outside and potty. The more chances the have the more they will come to understand that there will always be a chance to go outside. When they go outside give them lots of praise and a treat. It helps if you teach them a command like 'go potty' each time. It will hurry things up in the cold weather.

Make sure you get rid of all the urine smells so they won't always mark in the same spot. Use something made specifically for that purpose as they will be able to smell things that we can't.

Key times to take them outside are immediately after waking up, first thing in the morning, right after eating or drinking anything, and of course before bed.

I hope that helps. I feel like I'm forgetting something but I guess I'll remember later.

 

[caninelvr]

I agree, you need to take him out RIGHT when he's done playing, right after he eats etc, then you need to praise him when he's outside, I've never done the bitter apple thing, but then again my pooch walks over me, I've had him since he was 7 weeks old, and he's almost 5, he's been through a divorce, so I think he's acting out a bit, but we will work through that together! Good Luck!

 

[CreatureTeacher]

I would quit with the physical punishment now, before Belvedere really starts to resent it. Then you'll have another problem on your hands. The good news is, Belvedere is behaving like a perfectly normal puppy. I'm short on time, but I can throw out some ideas. Sorry if it's short.

First, YES! CLICKER TRAIN! By all means. I've used clicker training professionally for a long time, and it works beautifully. The best way to get started is to grab a copy of The Complete Idiot's Guide to Positive Dog Training by Pamela Dennison. It gives a good overview of behavioral science and gets you rolling on all the basic commands with step-by-step instructions on how to teach them. You can supplement that with Clicking With Your Dog by Peggy Tillman. The two books compliment each other very well and will give you everything you need to get started.

In addition to obedience training, Belvedere needs a little social training. He's got a big head for such a small dog! You need to show him that although he's a valued member of the family, he doesn't pay the rent. Until he does, you're in charge and all good things come through you. Read the second article down here: http://www.dogsday.8k.com/custom (If that doesn't work, try tacking a .html on the end.). You will be amazed at the difference this will make in his attitude.

As far as crates, I'd take the doors right off the damned things. A crate can be very useful when used properly, but that's so rare that the best thing you can do, since your pooches sleep with you anyway, is to just think of the crates as their bedrooms. They can use it when they want to, and you can make them use it in case of an emergency, but otherwise it's their own private place that they can enjoy when they choose to. I have several crates of various sizes. The crates' doors are in the garage somewhere. That's the way to use a crate correctly!

As a final thought, there are a couple of great books you could pick up if you want to learn some useful things about how your furkids' minds work:

Don't Shoot the Dog by Karen Pryor
The Other End of the Leash by Patricia McConnell
Culture Clash by Jean Donaldson
Animals in Translation by Temple Grandin

Hope this helps. Please let me know if you have any questions!

 

[bridey_01]

Crate training is a hard thing to do, and I never lock my dog in his crate. I do however teach him to accept being in a crate with the door closed. This comes in handy for when he is at the vets, when I take him in the car (too small for a harness as yet) and on the off chance that he gets taken to the pound and caged, I don't want him going skitzo in a cage and hurting himself (I have seen dogs do this at grooming parlours!)

 

[Rubylove]

Cultivate a 'Wrath Of God' voice, and use it instead of Bitter Apple when your pup's bad.

LOL!!! I love it.

 

[ohmai]

The trainer at my puppy socialisation class sprayed bitter apple spray at a Great Dane's mouth when he was barking alot.

 

[poeluvr]

is spraying apple spray being abusive?

 

[bridey_01]

Well, I would rather class it as misguided. I wouldn't associate with a trainer who used it in that way, which it was definetly not meant for.

 

[poeluvr]

well does it just taste gross for them or does it sting?

 

[bridey_01]

It doesn't sting them, and yes it does taste really gross. The reason I would never use it that way is that the dog associates this awful thing with you, and it's a little to harsh.