I like it! New financial reform bill.

[GlassOnion]

Ok actually I don't like the bill itself that much (government grabbing up more power), but this made me giggle.

Here are 10 aspects of the Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act you may not know about -- the online attention-deficit version.

Anyhow the bill in question, or at least the tl;dr version.
The Top 10 Things You May Not Know About the Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act | The White House

And a 16 page summary....
http://financialservices.house.gov/...tory_Reform/comprehensive_summary_FinalV5.pdf

of the 800 page long bill:
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h4173enr.txt.pdf



Back to the amusing bits: I don't know who Jen Psaki is (but google does!), however it still amuses me that on the official White House site (blog, at least) they posted that.

 

[ACooper]

4. No more taxpayer-funded bailouts. If a company can’t make it, it will have to liquidate

Right, sure, whatever..........believe it when I see it! LOL

 

[Puckstop31]

Right, sure, whatever..........believe it when I see it! LOL

It will HAVE to 'liquidate'? As in Chapter 7? Except Big Brother gets the proceeds of the sale?

Yeah.... That is a power the Feds need to have.


---

Answer this... WTF does ANYone in the current band of 'leaders' we have know about running a business? Has any of them run as much as a lemonade stand? Who inthe hell do they think they are to tell a business how to do things or that they MUST liquidate?


No lawyer BS here either... I mean it. WTF do they KNOW about running a business?

---

I wonder if any of these people will ever admit to what really caused this whole mess? Federal insistence that banks loan to people who had ZERO ability to pay the loans back. But, "it's OK, Fanny and Freddie got your back." Notice none of this bill addresses them? Gee... Why don't you ever see that in the 'press'?

2.Mortgage brokers will be prohibited from making higher commissions by selling mortgages they know consumers can’t afford.

THAT IS WHAT CAUSED THIS WHOLE MESS. At the INSISTENCE of the government.

Talk about an OUTRIGHT LIE?!?!?!?!?!?


But it is all Rupert Murdoch's fault....

 

[release the hounds]

I think saying this was caused by the govt's insistance is a bit simplistic. Greed pure and simple, unadultered greed and fudging numbers to show losses and gains to sell stocks and package debt to sell by creative means to "create" wealth is what caused this.

Sure the gov't had a program that gave incentive to loan to a group that historically could not get loans to buy homes, but banks still loaned based on good banking practices for quite a while, till they found ways around regulations where changed where they didn't have to have collateral to back the debts they were selling to others after writing the loans is when the housing boom started and the bubble burst. That was privatized greed thru and thru

 

[Buckshot]

Ok actually I don't like the bill itself that much (government grabbing up more power), but this made me giggle.

You giggle?

 

[GlassOnion]

Like a schoolgirl.

 

[Doberluv]

It will HAVE to 'liquidate'? As in Chapter 7? Except Big Brother gets the proceeds of the sale?

Yeah.... That is a power the Feds need to have.


---

Answer this... WTF does ANYone in the current band of 'leaders' we have know about running a business? Has any of them run as much as a lemonade stand? Who inthe hell do they think they are to tell a business how to do things or that they MUST liquidate?


No lawyer BS here either... I mean it. WTF do they KNOW about running a business?

---

I wonder if any of these people will ever admit to what really caused this whole mess? Federal insistence that banks loan to people who had ZERO ability to pay the loans back. But, "it's OK, Fanny and Freddie got your back." Notice none of this bill addresses them? Gee... Why don't you ever see that in the 'press'?



THAT IS WHAT CAUSED THIS WHOLE MESS. At the INSISTENCE of the government.

Talk about an OUTRIGHT LIE?!?!?!?!?!?


But it is all Rupert Murdoch's fault....

I agree on all accounts....couldn't have said it better myself. The question isn't whether it's true or not. The question is, why do people still believe that the politicians can do what they haven't been able to do EVER?!?!?!?! Change, change, change? Yup...change it is. Change from bad to worse until we won't recognize America. Morons!

 

[Buckshot]

I agree on all accounts....couldn't have said it better myself. The question isn't whether it's true or not. The question is, why do people still believe that the politicians can do what they haven't been able to do EVER?!?!?!?! Change, change, change? Yup...change it is. Change from bad to worse until we won't recognize America. Morons!

Ya that^. It is no wonder the snake oil salesmen of the world have done so well.

 

[Buckshot]

Like a schoolgirl.

Is there any other way?

 

[Pops2]

I think saying this was caused by the govt's insistance is a bit simplistic. Greed pure and simple, unadultered greed and fudging numbers to show losses and gains to sell stocks and package debt to sell by creative means to "create" wealth is what caused this.

Sure the gov't had a program that gave incentive to loan to a group that historically could not get loans to buy homes, but banks still loaned based on good banking practices for quite a while, till they found ways around regulations where changed where they didn't have to have collateral to back the debts they were selling to others after writing the loans is when the housing boom started and the bubble burst. That was privatized greed thru and thru

that's not exactly correct. back in the days before freddie & fanny people setting up these sure to fail mortgages got investigated BY THE BANKS. if they found sufficient evidence it was often turned over to the authorities for criminal charges of fraud. it was the gov't that made these kinds of mortgages legal. even after they made it legal the vast majority of banking institutions stayed away from them for a while because it was bad business. then the fed passed more laws/regulations REQUIRING industry complicity. once entrenched it simply became business as usual, no one thought much about it because they couldn't get around it.

 

[MelissaCato]

Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act. It sounds good huh ?

This HR 4173 is a frickin' permanent bailout !! No wonder why Obama said no more taxpayer bailouts period. Now you know why. I laughed so hard when he said that. I'm sure most people did if they actually read the Bill.

WOW .. America has her very own slush fund for all on wallstreet.

How about that derivatives Title 3 OCD with the bill ? :yikes: There went more future jobs, small businesses and individual personal loans .. no more circling the drain, we are now (but heads held high) in the progressive sewer !!

But HEY, on the bright side HR 4173 created a whole 10 gov jobs for the 12.5 million unemployed Americans. Fabulous huh ?

Although I'm feeling a much yearned philosophical optimism now that Stanley McChrystal is on our side !!!

Ron Paul x Judge Andrew Napolitano 2012 !!

opcorn:

 

[Bailey08]

The government didn't require private banks to fund bad mortgages. It certainly didn't require all of the CDO crap that blew up so badly.

 

[MelissaCato]

The government didn't require private banks to fund bad mortgages. It certainly didn't require all of the CDO crap that blew up so badly.

Instead the FED magically took the bad CDO and turned it into good CDO with a pen stroke. Now concidered a healthy security reserve at the Federal Reserve. Amazing huh ? Magic.

Ohh the irony that a stockpile of intemperate subprime mortgages can transubstantiate into a 5 star 5 diamond security via the about face CDO progression.

Your right though Bailey, the FED can do what ever they want with out the approval of Congress, POTUS, elected officials or our representatives. Our current and past admins date back to 1913 allowing it to happen. All guilty.

The Federal Reserve is nothing more than a quasi government entity that thinks it's above reprimand.

It's no wonder why they refuse even the slightest audit, the Federal Reserve is all criminal.

Now we see how we end up. Again.

 

[Puckstop31]

The government didn't require private banks to fund bad mortgages. It certainly didn't require all of the CDO crap that blew up so badly.

REQUIRED? That is grey.


Made it REALLY, REALLY easy for a bank to make quick, easy, guranteed money by loaning a quarter million bucks to a loser who has ZERO chance of paying it back? You bet. Fannie and Freddy would just buy it up.

Notice that Fannie and Freddie are not subject to any of the things BO and his merry band are doing.... Hmmmmmm....

Yeah, it feels GREAT to blame the fat cat bankers for it all. And in part, they are to blame. But government enabled the behavior. If the true, FREE, market was in charge... Yeah, the free market is often not 'fair'. What in life is?

 

[Snark]

that's not exactly correct. back in the days before freddie & fanny people setting up these sure to fail mortgages got investigated BY THE BANKS. if they found sufficient evidence it was often turned over to the authorities for criminal charges of fraud. it was the gov't that made these kinds of mortgages legal. even after they made it legal the vast majority of banking institutions stayed away from them for a while because it was bad business. then the fed passed more laws/regulations REQUIRING industry complicity. once entrenched it simply became business as usual, no one thought much about it because they couldn't get around it.

^this^ (except for the no one thought much about it part). My sister is a loan officer and I've listened to her rant several times about the gov't. making the company she worked for give loans to people who should have never qualified for a dime.

 

[Lilavati]

^this^ (except for the no one thought much about it part). My sister is a loan officer and I've listened to her rant several times about the gov't. making the company she worked for give loans to people who should have never qualified for a dime.

The problem with this theory is that the majority (by a significant ammount) of the subprime loans were originated by independent morgage companies (not Fanny and Freddie, and not regular banks), which were not subject to these laws. Those morgages where then resold, either as securities or separately, to other entities. In the case of most of the truly subprime morgatges (and all the things like ARMs) the morgage originators did it all on their own . . . because they could pass the risk on to someone else through securitization, or because (and this is the case) there was pressure on Fannie and Freddie to buy up those loans (thought partially because people thought it was a good deal).

And big banks bought those securities, knowing that they were full of rotten loans. Greed? Well, quite possibly. Stupid? Oh yes. No one MADE those banks buy those, and many were packaged with loans the government had not a thing to do with. Although there were many factors, the truely crazy mortgages you hear about on TV? Those were not the work of the government.

 

[ACooper]

Which makes it STILL come back to the people who took those loans IMO. People who wanted more, got in over their heads because THEY weren't bright enough to say yes, the bank says I can have it, but I can't really afford it so I'll pass right now and keep saving.

Every company out there wants my hard earned cash, doesn't mean I'll give it to them. Whether it's Walmart, my bank, the car lot, WHOEVER, it's ultimately MY RESPONSIBILITY to be aware and know what I can or cannot afford. If my MONTHLY income is 3 thousand, my living expenses for food, insurance, car payments, utilities, clothing, and extras are $1500, do I REALLY think getting a mortgage for $1500 a month is the best plan? That leaves exactly ZERO dollars to save or have wiggle room for an emergency. Boo hoo that your friends have a gorgeous house, new car, lovely yard, and 2.5 kids in private school. Take the smaller house and less mortgage payment. OR, keep working and saving until you CAN get that bigger house you are dreaming of.

Yes, it was nice when the banks used to point that out and turn down the people not smart enough to figure it out on their own. It DID help protect the rest of us who WERE smart enough and done things the right way. But it still comes back to PEOPLE not smart enough to do what's within their means and budget.

 

[xpaeanx]

Which makes it STILL come back to the people who took those loans IMO. People who wanted more, got in over their heads because THEY weren't bright enough to say yes, the bank says I can have it, but I can't really afford it so I'll pass right now and keep saving.

Every company out there wants my hard earned cash, doesn't mean I'll give it to them. Whether it's Walmart, my bank, the car lot, WHOEVER, it's ultimately MY RESPONSIBILITY to be aware and know what I can or cannot afford. If my MONTHLY income is 3 thousand, my living expenses for food, insurance, car payments, utilities, clothing, and extras are $1500, do I REALLY think getting a mortgage for $1500 a month is the best plan? That leaves exactly ZERO dollars to save or have wiggle room for an emergency. Boo hoo that your friends have a gorgeous house, new car, lovely yard, and 2.5 kids in private school. Take the smaller house and less mortgage payment. OR, keep working and saving until you CAN get that bigger house you are dreaming of.

Yes, it was nice when the banks used to point that out and turn down the people not smart enough to figure it out on their own. It DID help protect the rest of us who WERE smart enough and done things the right way. But it still comes back to PEOPLE not smart enough to do what's within their means and budget.

:hail: :hail: :hail:

People make fun of my "soccer mom" car all the time... but guess what? I was cheap, reliable, had the space I needed, and ABOVE ALL didn't make a MASSIVE dent in my monthly budget as a brand new flashy one would have made... and you know what? Now that the economy finally shut down part of my income, I am SO FREAKING GLAD that I didn't take on a car payment!

I realize that this is small scale... but I feel people make the same choices about everything in life. Oh, I can just buy these $200 pants on my credit card and pay them next month... oh, an extra $500 a month for a nicer car... yeah I can do that.... oh, just finance the new furniture honey, I don't want that ugly couch your mom gave us and we might as well buy all the furniture at once to make sure it all matches and is perfect and I don't want to wait another year to save the money... I want the bigger house honey, because John and Amy just bought a new one right on the water... I've been working so hard trying to pay for all this stuff we just bought, I'm so tired let's take a vacation, we can just put it on the credit cards and I'll pay it off later....

 

[Lilavati]

No argument here on that. I could point out in mitigation that a lot of people were suckered into mortgages with really nasty fine print (one of our staff members here had that happen to her . . . I asked her why on earth, office rules or not, she didn't ask one of the attorney's to look it over for her . . . but she trusted her realtor).

However, there will always be people living beyond their means (and in the case of our society, substantial pressure to do so (my coworkers are mystified and a little shocked at where I live . . . I like it there, and its cheap, I don't care if it is "lawyerly"). However, it used to be that lending institutions kept people from taking out loans they could not afford not to protect the peson buying the house, but because it wasn't in the interest of the bank/mortgage company, etc to give out loans that were unlikely to be paid back. Banks wouldn't give you a loan if you couldn't afford it not because they were good people (though some were) but because they would be on the hook if you didn't pay up. Thus, no matter how irresponsible some people were, they couldn't get a loan, because no one in their right mind would give them one. Even the various gov't programs to help people get houses had some standards. Basically, the market prevented things like NINJA (no income, no job or assets) mortgages because it was bad business.

But asset securitization pretty much changed that, because you could bundle a bunch of really crappy loans together, get a AAA rating on it, and sell it . . . and thus there was no risk in giving out cruddy loans. In other words, business found a great way to distribute risk . . . which would have worked fine, except that it completely screwed up the incentives of the mortgage originators (they were responsible for selling as many mortgages as possible . . . since those were then bundled and sold, it didn't matter what happened then). . . and it didn't help that the incentives of the large investment banks were pretty much borked as well.

Yes, people were irresponsible, but that's normal enough. What changed was that the mortgage industry was perfectly happy to act as enablers, because the risk of doing so was no longer on them.

 

[MelissaCato]

The government is in bed with the Federal Reserve long before Obama. The Federal Reserve controls the interest rates for all mortgages, subprime mortgages and lenders interests. It takes two to tango and the government along with the FED RES controled and promoted either by FHA, HUD, RHA, housing grants etc (government programs) 80% of Americans including illegals bought homes and property with adjustable rate mortgages from the Carter years (community reinvestment act) onup to 2006.

These people buying trusted the government and FED predictions that the ARM wouldn't rise above a certain percentage. They were lied to. They skyrocketed.

When the FED raised the interest rates on the home buyers, the home's and properties went into defaults and foreclosure while the FED demanded the lenders NOT to refinance. These people lost their homes and property by design.

Then in comes Obama and those 80% of Americans and illegals defaults and foreclosure's grand total around 1 trillion acres of private property, homes, farms, business's etc directly in the hands of the government via Fannie, Freddie and their insurance company AIG. Now, if you wanna buy one of those trillion acres of home or property that once was private property months ago .. your subject to government approval and of course the property too.

Sooo, I disagree for the most part this being the buyers fault concerning mortgages ... those 80% of Americans and illegals were screwed by design.

JMO.