I don't want to have to get rid of my dog

[Pareeeee]

Hello
The last little while we have actually been mulling over giving up Fidget because she is so so so hyper around people. Like, not normal puppy hyper, SUPER DUPER CRAZY hyper. She does circles around people's feet at 90 miles an hour, LICKING all over people's feet and shoes like some insane creature. Jumping jumping jumping. No one can pet or hold her because she just wont stop with the jumping and licking and leaping and wiggling and mouthing...it may sound cute but it's VERY unpleasant for everyone and stressful on myself and my husband.

There have been times I wanted to invite friends over but I didn't because I just didn't want to deal with the dog.

Her excitement is explosive. We often just have to put her in her crate to keep her off of people, but then she yips and whines and screeches because she wants to LICK them and JUMP on them SOooo badly.

We cannot afford obedience classes. That money goes to vet bill funds and food/supplies.

I really don't want to have to give her up because I love her so much! and I don't trust that other people would treat her good.

She is really good at home with just myself and my husband, I mean, she still acts like an annoying little puppy sometimes but she isn't insane.

Is there ANYTHING we can do to help her be more civilized around people?

Things we have tried:
> Redirecting her attention to a toy: sort-of helps, but she ends up leaping at the person with her toy, smearing the slimy thing on their legs or feet...
> Holding her back: just makes her more anxious and bottles up a whole lot of energy.
> Making her sit: same as above. Makes her more anxious, whines constantly and keeps getting up.
> Putting her in her crate: whines, yelps and yips constantly.
> Pushing her out of the way: she just keeps coming back...stubbornness...
> Telling people to ignore her: she just goes in her hyper-speed circles around their feet licking like crazy. (most people do NOT like this)
> Exercising her first: it doesn't seem to matter how much exercise she has had and if she has had a trick/training session. Her hyperness knows NO BOUNDS...

PLEASE help!

Thanks so much for your much-anticipated responses.

 

[stardogs]

What does a normal day for Fidget look like? How much exercise and what kind? How much training? What have you tried to solve the behaviors that trouble you?

 

[Pareeeee]

thanks - I was just editing my post while you posted this. There should be answers now up there ^^^

Some days (tues,thurs and sat) I am at work most of the day, but my husband is usually up 12noon (he works nights/sleeps in) so she has company most of the day. He doesn't exercise her as much as I do. I try to give her a walk and a training session every day. Sometimes she gets bike-rides or jogs, or fetch in the park. It doesn't matter if she just gets a small walk or gets all the exercise she can handle, she will still be hyper around people and act just as I described.

 

[MandyPug]

I suggest you purchase Crate Games and work on that with her. It's only about $30 and it's excellent for teaching self control.

I bought mine from Mungo's Books who don't charge much to ship out to Ontario, just use Ctrl + F and type in crate games and it'll come up.

You could also go through Clean Run: Crate Games for Self-Control & Motivation DVD but they charge more for shipping to Canada.

Crate games will at least teach her how to settle down in her crate and teach her some self control.

ETA: Pushing her away or pulling her back or making her sit is working like a restrained recall. It's using oppositional reflex to just ramp her up more. I'd quit doing that.

 

[Danefied]

Can you answer the part about what a typical day looks like for Fidget?
When you say exercising her first, what does that consist of?
How old is Fidget again?
Where in the house is her crate located?
In another post you said you bought a shock collar for barking, is that working?
How long does she wear the collar?
How long is she alone during the day?

 

[stardogs]

Thanks for the additional info on what you've tried so far. I'd still really like to know what her daily routine looks like - sometimes we can actually be giving dogs too much stimulation and seeing her normal routine may help see if there are some things to try/change that might help.

 

[Pareeeee]

She is comfortable in her crate, she will go in by herself, sleep in it every night without complaint. She just does not like it when there is someone or something she wants that she can't have. Also she does not like to be left alone whether or not she is in a crate.

 

[MandyPug]

She is comfortable in her crate, she will go in by herself, sleep in it every night without complaint. She just does not like it when there is someone or something she wants that she can't have. Also she does not like to be left alone whether or not she is in a crate.

The DVD will definitely help with that. Seriously, it's the best $30 you'll ever spend on a training DVD.

She has no self control, hence why i suggested something to help you teach her self control.

 

[Pareeeee]

Can you answer the part about what a typical day looks like for Fidget?

Gets up, usually jumps up onto her chair and has a nap (loves to sleep in?) has to go out to go potty. Won't go. Has to go potty again. Finally goes. (almost EVERY morning like that, lol!) There is no set time for walks, some mornings I walk her, sometimes not until afternoon, some days it's evening. I usually am lazy on my days off until about noon, then we do stuff. Plus we have to be quiet cuz the hubby is in bed. Afternoon: has her dinner. Then she has to poo. Often it's when we walk or bike, play fetch and/or have a trick training session. Evenings she gets very active. Tries to get us to play, smears her gooey toys across our feet while growling. Push her away. Play 'boxing' or tug of war with toys. Has to go potty about 7pm. Usually have to go out twice to get her to go. She then turbos around the house because she is so happy she pooped. Wears her out. I chase her around the couch. I go on the computer for a couple hours. She lays on the floor or on her chair chewing her bone. Sometimes we play with the laser pointer before bed to wear her out (I always make sure she isn't getting obsessive over it, some dogs get very obsessive and can't play with lasers. Fidget is not this way. When it's done, she's happy and goes and lays down.)

When you say exercising her first, what does that consist of?

See my last post

How old is Fidget again?

see my sig. almost 11 months

Where in the house is her crate located?

Our computer room. She can see out into the main part of the apartment from there. She always sleeps in there.

In another post you said you bought a shock collar for barking, is that working?

It was a piece of garbage and she chewed it up.

How long is she alone during the day?

only a few days she is alone in the morning, and that's usually it.

 

[stardogs]

So she has someone home most of the time that doesn't exercise her, she occasionally gets a single training session (how long? doing what?), and she is exercised by you only when you get home (how long? what kind? distances for running/walking/biking?). That really doesn't sound like she's overstimulated, but could certainly be lacking in structure and guidance.

It sounds like she could do with more mental exercise - stuffed kongs, treat balls, etc. - especially given her age (adolescents are notorious for high energy levels and you have a terrier mix, which are known for energy and tenacity).

Self control training is also going to be key (see the Crate Games suggestion above and the book Control Unleashed especially) and I'd **highly** recommend putting her on a strict NILIF program where she works for **everything** she enjoys.

"Everything" needs to include food, treats, toys, going for a walk, going for a ride, refill of her water bowl, petting, access to furniture, etc. Asking for a sit/down/stand/trick between throws of a toy, before food, before clipping the leash on or off for fun, etc. will really help solidify those skills and teach her to control herself when "good things" are about.

eta: Do you have any "dog people" as friends who would be willing to help her learn polite greetings? It's not going to be a fast process and they need to follow instructions very well, but you do need the help to progress quickly. I'll see if I can find a link to the techniques I use.

 

[MandyPug]

How much socialization with people did she get as a young pup?

Did you ever teach her how to act when meeting strangers? If so what was your criteria?

She's a mix breed too of two breeds that can be neurotic and over the top when you get poorly bred specimens. Since she's a mix, likely her parents were poorly bred dogs with poor temperaments and the inability to relax. Did you ever meet her parents?

 

[Doberluv]

I can't imagine that to be a viable reason to give up a dog. She has to be getting some kind of payoff for doing what she's doing. The licking and zooming around in itself may be gratifying, even if she isn't getting any attention, which I doubt. People often say they're ignoring their dog but they aren't. If anyone looks at her, touches her, speaks to her AT ALL, that's attention and a reinforcer for her behavior. Why does everyone have to pat a dog? Attempting to pat her while she's in a frenzy is reinforcing that behavior. If you ignore her most of the time, but then pay attention to her even once, that is putting the behavior on a variable reinforcement schedule and intensifying the behavior. If it is the actual licking that is rewarding to her, then prevent it....with a leash. Lead her calmly away and try again. Don't tell her a thing. Don't punish, don't talk. Just have a consequence for every behavior...a consequence that makes it so that behavior won't work to get her what she wants. It must be the same and it must happen each and every time she does it.

I'd recommend not waiting for those instances where people happen to come over. Set up, instead, situations with someone who will help you train her. Has she had any other kind of training? Have you thought of using a clicker and clicker training her? Read up on it...very fun and very useful. It could be very effective for this in particular. But first teach her to go to a special place, a mat or a crate away from the door. Have the helper knock on the door and just then lead her with a leash to her spot. She should already have a good handle on "stay." Lavish high value treats on her as she stays. Do this first before trying to train her to calm down when people come over. When you move onto training her to settle down with visitors, utilize this special spot. Use a leash. When she is staying well, then allow her to go to a visitor, but keep her on a leash. The visitor should ignore her entirely until she is calm and sitting. (she should already have learned to sit for a greeting) Only sitting works for attention. When I say "ignore," I mean completely ignore. The second she is calm/sitting, click treat. Start out with as mild a form as you can with the trigger...the visitor. Have some distance between her and the door area while you wait for her to sit and calm down. Don't speak or cue her to sit. Just WAIT, WAIT, WAIT. Just one quiet person. Later you can decrease the distance and increase the number of visitors gradually. Training a dog takes patience. You have to do a lot of waiting for the behavior you're wanting and then you must mark it (identify it with a clicker or "yesssss!") and immediately reinforce with a treat if she's interested OR with whatever it is she is trying to get. If it's going to the person to greet, then that can be the reward for sitting and waiting calmly FIRST. Make it easy for her at first. Just a very short second or two of calm earns her what she wants. Gradually raise the criteria to longer, calmer waits. If she licks their feet and acts crazy, lead her calmly away immediately for another sit/wait. Then try again in another 10 seconds or so. Repeat until she can go to the person and act calm without licking. You'll need practice sessions and someone to help you. Later, use other people so it's not always the same person she is associating this new behavior with. Change up the contexts, locations, time of day etc. Vary things so she learns to generalize the behavior to all kinds of circumstances.

All dogs need training and your dog is no exception. People give up dogs all the time because they don't train them and then the poor dogs are abandoned and don't understand why their life is so lonely and unhappy. Dogs will act like dogs until they learn behaviors that are compatible with living with humans. There's nothing defective about your dog. She's simply under trained. If you have trouble still, get a positive reinforcement type trainer in for just one or two sessions to give you some hands on help to get started. I bet you can do this with just a little jump start.

 

[stardogs]

Ah I found a vid from Kikopup on Youtube that should get you started with the jumping!

YouTube - ‪How to stop Jumping up!- clicker dog training‬‏

and a whole TON of links to impulse/self control training tutorials!

YouTube - ‪supernaturalbc2009's Channel‬‏

 

[Doberluv]

I missed all the other posts while I was typing. You used a shock collar on her for getting garbage???? Please ditch the shock collar. That could be contributing to this nervous frenzied behavior. Put your garbage up so she can't get at it. She's still very, very young and these behaviors will settle down in time if handled reasonably. You got some very good advice. I'd definitely read up on impulse control in dogs. Here's something I really like: Lesson 3

Another: Dog Training Seattle | Ahimsa Dog & Puppy Training, Voted Best Dog Trainer in Seattle

Some little exercises and brain work will do her wonders.

 

[Pareeeee]

Stardogs, thanks
She does get a Kong, usually only when we leave her alone in her crate. Should she have one every day to play with? (I wanted to keep it special for when she's alone at home)

We have her on NILIF. We make her sit or lay down, then release command before getting: food, water, up on our lap, a treat, before getting to go see (ie. attack with happpines) a person. Those are the main things. So I guess we should implement it on everything else too! Thanks. I didn't really think of that.

My Mom and my one friend are helpful with the polite greetings. Those are the only helpful people really. My dad wants to mush her and let her go crazy. Most people say 'no' in the most weak way possible (usually while petting her! grr...), she's not gonna listen to that!

 

[Pareeeee]

I missed all the other posts while I was typing. You used a shock collar on her for getting garbage???? Please ditch the shock collar. That could be contributing to this nervous frenzied behavior. Put your garbage up so she can't get at it. She's still very, very young and these behaviors will settle down in time if handled reasonably. You got some very good advice. I'd definitely read up on impulse control in dogs. Here's something I really like: Lesson 3

Another: Dog Training Seattle | Ahimsa Dog & Puppy Training, Voted Best Dog Trainer in Seattle

Some little exercises and brain work will do her wonders.

What???? how did you get that from my post LOL. The shock collar IS GARBAGE. She chewed it up! It's wrecked.

She never gets into the garbage.

 

[Pareeeee]

Quoting Doberluv: "Why does everyone have to pat a dog? "

EXACTLY MY QUESTION! WHY does EVERYONE have to pat the dog when you ask or tell them not to?!?!??! They just look at you like "that's a terrible thing to say, the dog wants to be patted! So I'm gonna do it ANYWAY cuz I don't care what YOU the owner says..."

ok that's my rant about THOSE people...

 

[stardogs]

When my Kestrel was around Fidget's age he was never fed from a bowl, only treat dispensing toys. We had several Kongs (that I stuffed with dry and canned food and froze), a Tricky Treat Ball, a Treatstik, Kong Genius toys, Busy Buddy toys, etc. that we rotated for each meal.

The stricter you are with NILIF the better in cases like this. You can also ask for longer durations of the behaviors you've using for as she gets the hang of it - building up to longer durations will help immensely.

One of the biiig things you'll need to do is step in and actively *prevent* people from interacting with Fidget if they aren't following the rules. It is insanely hard sometimes, but it's necessary to set her up for success. Random reinforcement only makes the behavior waaaaay stronger.

 

[Doberluv]

Oh LOL! Sorry. My addled old brain missed something.

As far as NILIF, I've found that if it's carried to the extreme, it can cause unnecessary stress. I totally believe in having dogs earn the things they love. But I think it's better to have STILAF. (some things in life are free.) LOL. I like to put a lot of behaviors on default which means a lot of waiting for them to figure it out, but once they do, it relieves you of having to tell the dog everything.

Yeah, if people won't listen to you and won't ignore her when she's all frenzied, then I'd keep her seaparted from them until she learns from practice with those who will help. It will just undermine everything you strive to work toward. People are sure harder to train than dogs.

 

[Pareeeee]

AHH so many responses!! I'm trying to answer you all, LOL!

How much socialization with people did she get as a young pup?

Did you ever teach her how to act when meeting strangers? If so what was your criteria?

She's a mix breed too of two breeds that can be neurotic and over the top when you get poorly bred specimens. Since she's a mix, likely her parents were poorly bred dogs with poor temperaments and the inability to relax. Did you ever meet her parents?

I think I've explained in my first post the things I've tried when people come in the door.

No, never met her parents. Got her from a BYB before I knew that BYB can be bad :O

All I know is that she is a Toy Fox Terrier/Pug cross.