Husky acting aggressively

[Tazwell]

Before I try to give any advice to this person, I wanted to get a second opinion on this behavior--

This dog is a 2 year old intact male husky, that went to puppy classes when he was young. He did well. This summer, he began growling at women, and now, he growls at just about anybody that gets into his space at the Petstore (and at home I guess, as well-- of course, we're talking about strangers here.), especially women, it seems.

His hackles raise, he gets a very wary look in his eyes, and he begins vocalizing when someone appears as if they might walk towards him. He doesn't raise his lips or anything, just lots of vocalizing. I took his leash today, and he became very uncomfortable, made a small attempt to back up, growled, then just stood and growled at me.

Someone crouched down a few feet away from him today, and he began vocalizing, and then circling her, not getting close- in an arc fashion-- growling all the way-- until his owner pulled him back. It was somewhat very unnerving.

He does seem to attempt to put distance between himself and the stimulant, though, so I'm thinking that the behavior might have stemmed from fear-- and then just became habitual. He does, however, take treats from these people, even if they have to toss them a foot or two, and he quiets down a bit. His owner doesn't seem to have a lot of control over him at all, but she's working on that with strict NILIF.

The first time he saw me, I didn't know his background. I walked up to him, asked him to sit, shake, then gave him a treat-- and he didn't growl. His hackles did raise, but no growling. I did have a treat pouch on, though

He has never made any hint of an attempt to snap or bite anybody, but that is the next step if growling doesn't work for him!


So what does this behavior sound like to you? Of course, I've already recommended them to a behaviorist, but we'll see if his owner follows through.

 

[ron]

When given treats, what are they for? Are they given in an effort to quiet him down? If so, then the timing is wrong, he's being reinforced for growling. Or, he had a bad experience with strangers before. Or missed some socialization. These can all be addressed by reinforcing him in calm states. Reinforce obedience, especially when he starts to get a reaction to others. There will be a point just before he alerts and starts to growl. That is the time to ask for an obedience that is counter to what he wants to do. Commanding and getting a behavior that is incompatible with growling at others to his own content. Also, distance is a factor, so work on these at a distance and decrease the range has he gets better. At some point in the past, his behavior rewarded him, even if it was just with being left alone or feeling secure or warding off an evil. So, now, the idea is to reward the better social behavior.

Huskies are rugged and trying to manhandle them feels like play, which is a reinforcer. They are independent. They do things for a reason and you want to be that reason.

 

[Dekka]

I disagree with Ron. The treats sound good. You aren't trying to reward him, just have him associate strange people with wonderful things. This tends to work very well.

I would suggest she have him fixed and checked by a vet.

Then as to what you are doing. NILF is great. Make sure people aren't using eye contact with him at first. The fact that this has stayed with just growling for so long is actually a good thing. If he really wanted to threaten he would have upped the ante by now. Though if this isn't remedied he could get worse.

How is he with people he knows well?

 

[Doberluv]

I also disagree with Ron about worrying about reinforcing the "behavior" of growling.

Growling is not a behavior I'm focusing on when working with aggression cases. It's simply a communication. Dogs are so strongly associative learners that the importance of associating good things with the people he fears is vastly more valuable than the timing of the reward to response. It takes precidenence over any particular behavior when you're talking about something like this. The scary people or things have to become treat dispensing machines and absolutely no direct eye contact or even facing squarely toward the dog....the people should turn sideways and look away, making no overt motions. There is more to it than that...some things I do with the coming and going. But anyhow, in a nutshell....it really isn't significant about the timing of the delivery in this type of thing. It's more important to show the dog right away that people=fantastic. Period.

I agree too, with Dekka about seeing a vet, just to be sure it's nothing medical. That should always be ruled out first or you're just beating a dead horse.

The dog has to get truly comfortable with people. And any treatment plan will be undermined significantly IF the dog had a limited degree of socialization. Is anyone treating the dog roughly/harshly? In the two cases I'm working with presently, that appears to be the cause and not so much lack of socialization.

 

[sisco16]

well sorry to burst the bubble but i agree with ron. Because i am in the same spot with my 7 month old intact male husky, and the problem has been that i am giving him treats to leave the dog park but he snaps at the other dog then and bites so he is essentially getting rewarded by the treat. Which isent good.

 

[Dekka]

I wouldn't just do it at a dog park with other dogs. Giving treats works.. but not if you are trying to fix food guarding issues. (ie if the dog is fine with other dogs.. and only gets snappy with treats.. then you don't give treats)

Totally different issue!

Giving treats to dogs acting aggressively is a documented way to help. In all breeds. Its the 'standard' approach.

 

[Doberluv]

well sorry to burst the bubble but i agree with ron. Because i am in the same spot with my 7 month old intact male husky, and the problem has been that i am giving him treats to leave the dog park but he snaps at the other dog then and bites so he is essentially getting rewarded by the treat. Which isent good.

Well, you didn't burst any bubbles. This is the protocal of most educated professional behaviorists/trainers to treat things like this. There are other factors too, that play into a rehab treatment with variations taylored to individual dogs; working at a distance, (D&C) utilizing increased distance itself as a reinforcer in the beginning phases in certain cases and a lot of other things. Setting up the environmment for the dog's success is vital. Throwing him into the midst of high level triggers is surely not the way to train. So you're taking your dog into a dog park of all places and getting close enough to other dogs that he is snapping and biting at them is not setting him up for success. I recommend you get him neutered and get a good trainer to help you. He needs socialization but obviously not in such a way that he is over-whelmed as you're describing.

 

[Doberluv]

The thing is this: Dogs, especially dogs that are inexperienced or have a limited history with effective training are doing a lot of guessing. They're not so conscious of their OWN behavior. They are not believed to have a real sense of "self" like we do. They don't readily or immediately associate reward OR punishment directly with their own behavior until they've had ample and consistent response to behavior instances. They tend to associate reward or punishment first with something else in their environment. In the case of the OP, it is important to first make a good association with the environmental triggers which are people. How can good associations be made? Well....making the triggers milder at first so that the good thing outweighs in intensity the bad thing. (the person or dog) Setting the dog's environment up so he is less apt to become highly reactive while you're creating this association is important. But this does call for a behaviorist to really get in there and see what's going on. And again, a vet visit.

 

[Kayla]

The thing is this: Dogs, especially dogs that are inexperienced or have a limited history with effective training are doing a lot of guessing. They're not so conscious of their OWN behavior. They are not believed to have a real sense of "self" like we do. They don't readily or immediately associate reward OR punishment directly with their own behavior until they've had ample and consistent response to behavior instances. They tend to associate reward or punishment first with something else in their environment. In the case of the OP, it is important to first make a good association with the environmental triggers which are people. How can good associations be made? Well....making the triggers milder at first so that the good thing outweighs in intensity the bad thing. (the person or dog) Setting the dog's environment up so he is less apt to become highly reactive while you're creating this association is important. But this does call for a behaviorist to really get in there and see what's going on. And again, a vet visit.

Agreed 200%. Classical Conditioning is a well documented and widely accepted approach to dealing with aggression, and while it may go against human thinking ( why would we want to reward something undesirable such as growling, lunging, etc) it does work, and it has proven so many, many times.

You should be proactive in the mean time about letting your dog be pushed into a state where he feels the need to proactively snarl, lunge or snap, but as Dobluv and Dekka have both mentioned, growling is just communication, and no dog should EVER be punished for exhbiting it. Unless of course it is your goal to train a dog who bites without warning. Ron made a very good point about distance, it is your best friend when working through any protocol. I agree with teaching an incompatible behaviour to a point, things like watch me, sit stay are EXCELLENT tools to have especially in those worst case scenerio's, but it has been my experince that Counter Conditioning combined with games for Control Unleashed will get you much further then just relying on incompatiable behaviours alone.

Kayla

 

[Kayla]

To the OP: The first thing I would recommend is that the owners do get thyroid level's checked at the vet, this is often over looked but imbalances of the thyroid can be a major contributing factor in a some aggression cases. You will also want to discuss management options in the meantime while you work through a protocol. A muzzle may be necessary if they live in a highly populated urban centre. In the summer basket muzzles are prefered as they allow panting. However the draw back is they do not allow treats to be consumed.

An alternative is a head halter, it will not reduce the liability factor of owning a dog who is reactive but it gives EXCELLENT head control. Often this combined with proactiveness on the owners part about avoiding situations where her dog will be pushed past his comfort level is often enough while you start to get this behaviour under wraps.

If you are in doubt about working through a De-sensitization and Counter Conditioning Protocol then you may want to suggest to the owner that they seek out someone who can help guide them through one. The hardest part is of course owner compliance, many people have an aversion to seeking the help of a proffessional behaviouralist, also sometimes the fees can be rather substatial and simply impractical.

In the meantime things you can begin training is a strong watch me and sit stay cue, as well as focus on owner leash control. It is very important to show owners how to react when their dog see's a trigger ( i.e, deep breathing to stay calm, not cleanching the leash, etc). If you have never read it, Control Unleashed is just a fantastic book for dealing with reactive dogs, sound-sensitive dogs, fear aggressive dogs, and dogs who go from over aroused to shut down in 5 seconds falt.

Relay as much information as possible about the realities and consequences of not working with this problem including liability, and the consequences for owners of dog's who do end up biting someone in public ( fines, muzzle orders, confinscation of dog, etc)

Kayla

 

[Tazwell]

So far, the owner has called the vet, looked into getting him neutered and everything. The dog certainly isn't following her reaction, she's very calm about everything.

That is what I've coached her into doing-- showing the dog that all people provide good things.

The dog is wearing a prong collar most of the time, because he's difficult to control-- and I've strongly advised her to move to head collar for a variety of obvious reasons.

I just want to make sure I'm on the right track with this! Thanks!

 

[Dekka]

I head collar is a great tool in helping with this sort of issue (I am not a fan of them for general use)

But I mean is the dog totally relaxed with the owner handling the dog? Is he relaxed and out going with people he knows well?

 

[Tazwell]

The dog pulls on the leash quite a bit, and the owner has little control over him-- even with the prong collar on. It's not being used correctly. One example of a situation I don't want to come up is when I took the dog's leash, and he attempted to back up-- He felt the tightening of the prong, and it more than likely made him feel a little more trapped and nervous than he might have otherwise.

He is relaxed around people he knows, as far as outgoing, he doesn't seem like an outgoing dog in general to me. So I don't know.

 

[Kayla]

Sounds like you are on track, head halters can elicit alot of owner resistance when they perceive it as a muzzle. One thing I like to tell owners about prongs and chokes is that they often make strangers and strange dogs on walks predictors of pain. Even a dog that isnt reactive will quickly learn that every time strangers appear they recieve a pop. There is no reason to assume they associate this with pulling as these two things occur simultaniously and because dogs usually pull when they see someone or another dog, owners tend to be very consistent at conditoning strangers to predict bad things to come. With a dog which is already reactive to strangers this will undo your work with conditioning strangers to be predictors of good things to come.

Keep us updated
Kayla

 

[Doberluv]

Sounds like you are on track, head halters can elicit alot of owner resistance when they perceive it as a muzzle. One thing I like to tell owners about prongs and chokes is that they often make strangers and strange dogs on walks predictors of pain. Even a dog that isnt reactive will quickly learn that every time strangers appear they recieve a pop. There is no reason to assume they associate this with pulling as these two things occur simultaniously and because dogs usually pull when they see someone or another dog, owners tend to be very consistent at conditoning strangers to predict bad things to come. With a dog which is already reactive to strangers this will undo your work with conditioning strangers to be predictors of good things to come.

Keep us updated
Kayla

Absolutely...it's no good to use a prong collar or any kind of uncomfortable thing in the presence of other dogs or people....whatever the "offending" trigger is.

Something that they should do is practice loose leash walking in very low distraction areas. When the dog is permitted to walk forward with pressure from the leash present, he learns that tension IS the way he gets to go forward on the walk. It's just par for the course. He must re-learn that tension does not get him where he wants to go. Loads of very frequent reinforcment needs to be delivered when he is along side them....quick! Before he creates tension, then lots of turns and sometimes stop, sometimes go back the other way...but never let tension in the leash for one second. It takes a long time once that behavior becomes engrained.

There's another pretty nifty method somewhere in this forum, I think entitled "loose leash walking." It's a video. You may have to go back a page or more. She starts out in the bathroom where there's hardly any space. Check it out.

There is also a Halti Harness (attaches from the front) which is said to be very effective for pullers when out and about where distractions can't be avoided very well. But all in all, I'd try to get this under control at least pretty well before getting into sitauations where the dog is more apt to pull.

Fenced in areas are great too. They can practice with no leash. No leash equals nothing to pull against. Loads of tiny, hgh value reinforcers for staying alongside fairly well...It doesn't have to be perfect...just reinforce for improvement and then raise the criteria later. Make coming along side nicely a really fun game and VERY rewarding with quick delivery of tiny treats without breaking the pace. Get the dog engaged with the human instead of the environment so much. When I work with dogs like this, I get very silly and annimated with my voice and movements. If anyone were watching, they'd think there was something wrong with me. :rofl1: Human makes tons more fun than the whatever else is around, in other words. Then put on the leash and do the same thing....no tension in the leash ever...lots of encouragement, a rope toy or squeeky toy is fun too and helps keep the dog's intrest in working with the owner instead of being too obsessed with focusing on wherever it is the dog wants to go.

"Watch me" is also something that will help....taught in the livingroom during commercials. LOL. Everytime the dog makes eye contact, reinforce...then later, add a cue word. Then apply it to different scenarios and locations, then finally, incorporate it into the walk, starting in low distractions.

 

[sisco16]

I dont see how food Is going to work, He becomes more upset and growls at the dogs when we have treats. And yes I do walk them both on gentle leader collars that wont stop a bite hes bitten a dog while walking in one.Any collar can create tension in an unsure dog. But he never had these issues until just the last month I seriously think he just needs to be neutered.

 

[Dekka]

As I said before. Food isn't going to help with what you are doing. He is guarding the food from the other dogs. That needs to be addressed first. If you want to desensitize him to other dogs you need to do it at first at such a distance he CAN'T bite. Not by a mile. You reward him for look at a dog then focusing on you. So that the presence of another dog is the cue to focus on you. You then slowly move closer to other dogs. If your dog reacts you have moved to fast.

This does work. I have used it with many dogs. Everytime your dog 'practices' attacking other dogs it will only make it worse. You need to stay far enough away from other dogs to stop him from being able to practice.

Fixing might help.. its a good step. But rarely is it a magic bullet.

 

[Kayla]

Sisco-If resource gaurding is indeed a factor than it unfortunantly will take extra hyper vigilance on your part to keep a safety zone around your dog in which other dogs and people do not enter while you work on a counter conditioning process as to not trigger any food gaurding. Neutering is never a bad idea. Your situation is one of those things that there is only so much that can be done based on someone's description of a problem, thus why finding someone to guide you through a training plan tailored specifically to your and your dog's needs is always recomended when you are dealing with something as serious as this. If your dog has bitten another dog it only raises the urgency of finding someone who knows what they are doing, ask for references and make contact with past clients.

Counter conditioning using food works by changing a dog's response to it's triggers by pairing them with the sight of strangers and taking them away when strangers disappear. It is not a quick fix, but few methods that work are, over the months you will see a deffinite positive shift in his response to the sight of strangers. However the plan needs to be moved through systematically with alot of stress put on not pushing your dog into a position where he would react and slowly work into his comfort zone.

Be warned neutering is not a deffinite fix for the issue, but it certainly may help. I had Duke neutered at 5 months in hopes it would curb his reactivity, I knew very little about training and while I was going to get him neutered anyways, it did nothing to help.

Kayla

 

[sisco16]

Thanks for the help. I was going to dog park because thats the only real place for them to socialize around here and run freely. We dont have many dogs that live near us while where walking so im not sure how the conditioning will work but i will try my best. Ive just been going to the hiking trails I live on a high way there not really anywhere to walk them by our house thats safe. so maybe we will se a few more dogs on the trails.

 

[Kayla]

Sisco- that helps us understand your situation a bit better, what I would recomend, is staying on the outside of the dog park fence (unless you have a lot of people who let their dogs offleash outside of the park on the way to the car) where you can control the distance and practice watch me's, sit/stays and counter conditioning.

Have you been to any group classes in your area? You may need to do some privates first where your instructor can help you get a handle on your boy before introducing him into a group environement. Unfortunantly your major window of socialiation has passed, none the less it does not mean you cannot still use the opportunities you get to train. Jean Donaldson call it the "urban dog syndrome" where urban dogs, are generally exponentially exposed to wayy more people, dogs, strange sights, sounds,smells etc, on a daily basis vs the rural dog. She compares keeping a dog socialized to an elastic band, some dogs are very elastic because they are constantly exposed to other dogs, people, etc where as some dogs are more brittle due to limited exposure. While an elastic dog can easily bounce back from one or two negative experinces with other dogs (like a fight at a dog park) a brittle dog may make up his mind about other dogs after even one bad encounter. This is why it is soo important that in the future you do not throw your dog into a situation where he will be overwhelemed like a dog park. It is not the way to socialize him and will only make your dogs reaction worse.

More and more we are seeing GROWL classes being conducted by experinced trainers tailored for reactive dogs, again however you may need to do privates before being allowed into a group situation.

Kayla