How to teach polite dog - dog greetings?

[StompinT]

Louis, 10 months old, is a happy, friendly, playful guy. He's also the dog that rudely greets every dog he meets and puts them off. Way too forward, ignores their calming signals, pushes forward intently. How exactly do I go about teaching him to greet politely? He simply does not circle around and approach from the side. It's head on, or nearly head on, all the time.

Can he just not greet another dog again??

 

[milos_mommy]

Are these greetings on leash? Off leash?

How does he respond if the other dog corrects him?

 

[straw]

It sounds like he is probably pretty pumped and excited about meeting the other dogs so I'd address that first and come up with a training plan to help him relax (like really relax, not just hold a stay or something) in the presence of other dogs. Relaxation protocol, t-touch, settling on cue, whatever works with him. Then you can gradually bring the other dogs closer.

 

[Maxy24]

I agree with Straw, try to get to the root of the problem, why is he so tense? Work on calming him down before the greeting and I mean really, emotionally calming him down, not just making him do "calm" behaviors. It might help to take some sort of group class where the dogs do not interact so he could learn to relax in the presence of other dogs. Maybe even take a reactive dog class if you think that could help.

Then I'd start with very short interactions. Teach him a very strong let's go command or a hand target or something so that after he greets a dog for 3 seconds you can call him away (and then give him lots of treats) without having to use any sort of leash or collar pressure as that can make already tense dogs snap at each other. This "3-second rule" helps prevent dogs from getting overly uncomfortable and escalating their behavior.

 

[StompinT]

I'm primarily talking about on leash greetings, though he's the same off leash. If actually strongly corrected, like a growl etc, he backs off. At least momentarily.

As for group classes, he's been in countless classes, since 10 weeks of age. Does very well. Maintains focus on me very well. However, there's no real interacting with the other dogs there. I have taken him to controlled play groups, where he gets to play off leash with 3-4 other dogs. It's not like he's terrible, but he comes on too strong. Ignores head turns, lip licking, tails tucked, etc. And when that close to another dog he wants to greet, forget about him responding to me.

I'm working "leave it" like a fiend, and have been for months. But that isn't really helping his greetings.

I should also add that after chatting with dozens of other owners of this breed, this is an extremely common issue. They are a very confident, dominant breed, and can be bullies with other dogs. Not necessarily in an aggressive fighting way, but in a throwing-weight-around and being rude way.

 

[straw]

Ehhh I'd be careful about brushing off behavior as a 'breed thing'. I also highly doubt this has anything to do with dominance - which, let's be real here, we know next to nothing about. Just me.

 

[milos_mommy]

Honestly, I see on leash greetings as 1) totally unnatural and 2) never necessary. If your dog is on leash, they should be focused on you, not on other dogs.

If he's meeting other dogs for a play session, let them meet off leash, or just walk them together until they're uninterested in each other.

 

[StompinT]

You know, that point really struck home - leash greetings are totally unnatural and unnecessary. That is so true. OK, so I'll skip the greetings while on leash.

Now, on to the next - he's too forward with off leash greetings too. Goes bounding up to other dogs, which puts them off immediately. Right in their face. Bouncing all around like a lunatic. And he's 85 lbs of puppy, so very overwhelming.

He loves to play with other dogs, and it's the kind of physical exercise he should be getting. However, I don't see this happening any time soon.

As for the dominance thing - well, without using that word, he is a very confident pup. Respectful of me, and people, etc, but tends to ignore the signals of dogs smaller than him. I don't think this behavior has much to do with dominance, but I do think it has everything to do with a very confident pup who boldly explores his world, and wants to insist on playing with other dogs.

And I am in no way excusing his behavior based on breed, but facts are facts. This is an extremely common issue with the breed. They, as a whole, tend to be very confident dogs with physical presence. Just a fact. Doesn't mean I don't expect polite behavior from him, but it's going to take a lot more work with him than say, a Boston Terrier. LOL!

 

[BostonBanker]

I agree that on-leash greetings really don't need to happen very often. I'd say never (and I don't let Meg greet dogs on-leash unless she knows them well), but I do admit that I let Gusto greet a dog on leash once in a while. But his dog skill are excellent and he can handle it well.

Honestly, I don't believe there's a whole lot humans can do to 'fix' dog-to-dog greetings outside of managing whether or not they can occur. It's mainly an issue fixed by dogs.

My take on it would be that you would need to counter-balance all the times that he does get away with that sort of greeting (because every time he charges another dog to greet them and the dog responds with play or just backs off, his behavior is being reinforced) with dogs who will appropriately correct him. Obviously you don't want dogs going overboard and turning him on the defense or making him scared, but he does need to hear "this isn't acceptable".

I'm just not sure how much you can balance that out once a dog is older and has the behavior established already. I know with a puppy (of which I've raised exactly one, so I clearly must be an expert ), I'd be very careful about who the dog interacts with, and make sure they meet plenty of appropriate adult dogs. Meg's great at that with puppies; I have a friend with a male who is also perfect for it. Draws a very clear line as to what is acceptable, without ever going overboard and hurting or scaring the puppy.

If I got a dog that age, who had those sorts of dog skills, I think I'd start seriously limiting the dogs he had access to. Probably still having play time with a few good friends, but not introducing new dogs unless I knew them and their dog skills well. Have meetings with adult dogs who I trusted. I'd want to avoid letting him meet either dogs who are too tolerant (and thus reinforce his bad behavior) or too defensive (because again, scaring him or getting him hurt obviously aren't the solution). No dog parks, no open play times. I'd keep working on the leave it you have started, and continue to work on obedience so that you can manage him well around other dogs, and so he isn't ignoring you when he's near a dog he wants to greet.

And I'd also keep my fingers crossed that it would simply improve with age, which I think these things tend to in a lot of dogs.

 

[milos_mommy]

I agree with the above poster that it's something likely (but not definite) to improve with age. And that there's not a whole ton you can do about it.

1. Try, as much as you can, to limit his interactions to dogs who will correct his behavior or not put up with his shenanigans. A dog is the best option to teach another dog dog-dog manners

2. If he is being super obnoxious during play, try to regularly get him away (either distract him, call him, or even go and leash him up if it's safe). Reward his calm, unobsessive, not obnoxious behavior by allowing him to go play with the other dogs more, basically using the premack principle.

3. If you do need to do an on leash greeting, provided the other dog isn't very nervous, hold the other dogs head (or have the owner do so) and allow your dog to smell the other dog calmly from the side or back, then switch.

4. A lot of trainers don't think dogs understand time outs. My theory is if your dog loves playing with other dogs and he acts like a big jerk and you remove him (or the other dog) promptly when this happens (or ask for a command like down or sit stay) the dog is gonna pretty quickly stop acting like a big jerk. This only works if your dog is well trained and you're practicing commands with increase distractions and distance. If your dog is body slamming or trying to hump another dog, but has an impeccable "down" and you call that out every time he tries to mount another dog, he's gonna give up quickly.

 

[StompinT]

Thanks for the advice - I will definitely take all of this in. He already basically never meets other dogs (extremely rarely - yesterday was the exception in that he met 3), but is around other dogs weekly at class. He no longer gets any off leash time around other dogs, because he blows me off completely.

The drawback to all this is that I don't actually know anyone with dogs, let alone dogs I would consider very socially appropriate. Each and every dog in his current manners class is not exactly the playing type, if not all out dog aggressive (there are only about 5 other dogs in the class, several of which have to be muzzled).

Thoughts on this: my brothers 10 year old female boxer came to visit last weekend. She could not stand Louis - each time he came within 5 feet of her and showed any interest, she growled, showed teeth, etc. I tried to keep them separated at all times, but there were still a few altercations. Twice while at the door, she started something with him, and once when he walked onto the deck she was eating on (my brother let this one happen, unthinkingly). Both times, she started it, they both made a lot of noise and reared up, and my pup immediately laid on top of her. I would go and get him, and he'd happily walk away.

I then learned that the the boxer lives next to a year old Collie puppy, and she spends her days pinning and humping him I think she's learned to throw her weight around, and simply find puppies obnoxious.

So, the upshot of this is that she constantly gave him signs she didn't want him near her. He mostly gave her a wide berth, but occasionally wandered nearby and immediately heard about it. These dogs are going to see each other a few times a year, so how do I manage this? I fear that repeated interactions like the one on the weekend are essentially allowing my pup to practice getting the upper hand with another dog, all the while being obnoxious. Gah.

 

[milos_mommy]

Honestly, if those dogs were going to need to be in the same house a few times a year, I'd keep them separate, either crate and rotate, or use a gate. It's not worth the potential trauma/behavioral damage of a fight.

 

[StompinT]

Update: last night at group class, we started appropriate dog - dog greetings on leash. What timing! And I have to say, my pup did AWESOME! He was corrected once by a medium sized dog (who actually was unwarranted, just an unfriendly beast), but the good news is that after the correction, my pup just stayed away on his own, even after I gave him the go ahead to have a little freedom. And in the next greeting with a different dog, my pup gave him a wide berth, circled around, sniffed his rear briefly and backed off. yeah! So he can definitely learn.

 

[LMost]

Sounds good but if you do not really have dog friends for him to play with and be corrected by to learn in a controlled environment.

He could take this as a one off lesson, and I worry about real world where you turn a corner and meet whatever dog and there being a issue.

Not sure what breed you have or it's age, but I would be careful.

Mine has dogs he play with daily, and is very socialized with human, dogs and cats, and he still has zero tolerance for other dogs if they are DA, any other dog or small animal he just wants to play.

Downside is you can even on leash turn a corner walking and hit the dog that takes his rude greeting the wrong way.

I'm work on him focusing on you while walking.