How to redirect Humping and re-establish dominance

animalvr32

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#1
Hi everyone, I have a question about your lab pup. First of all when we play she tries to hump my arm. Is this a play thing or a dominance thing?
I make her wait while I go in/out of the doors first. She mush down/stay to eat. She must sit to drink. What else should I be doing? Thanks. Also, what should I do to redirect this behavior?
 

Doberluv

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#3
Wow, she has to sit even for a drink? I'm all for having a dog earn some of it's resources but do you think this is going a little too far? I mean....wouldn't that make you stressful to have to earn a glass of water? Let your puppy be a puppy too while learning some manners. Are you having some kind of aggression problem? How old is this pup? Why do you think you have to re-establish dominance? Just teach your puppy what behaviors you'd like her to learn. It all takes time. I would just show her something else to do when she's thinking about humping (before she starts) and praise her for doing that.....a chew toy, game or some obedience skill.
 

animalvr32

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#4
She is 18 weeks old. No she has NEVER shown signs of aggression. When she tries to hump I do push her off and sometimes I take the toy and make her lay down. As for the water, I was trying to prevent any kind of guarding, aggression issues before they even started. We had a golden that had BAD aggression issues due to bad breeding. Don't judge and you really dont have to make snide remarks. I understand what you are saying but not everyone will agree with what I do or you do for that matter.
Thanks to you how offered good advice.
 

Zoom

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#6
That wasn't being snide, that was showing well-placed surprised over how far you're taking NILIF with a young Lab puppy who has shown no signs of aggression of any type so far. That's something I would do with a super dominant older dog...actually no it's not. Water is free, regardless.

But as far as your humping question goes, push her off and redirect. I wouldn't worry about "re-establishing dominence" just yet...she's not old enough to have any dominence...
 

Doberluv

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#7
Thanks Herschel and Zoom (edit...lol). No, I intended no snideness.

Preventing possession guarding is a good thing to do. There are little games you can play for that. My opinion is that if a young puppy has to wait for everything under the sun and if his maturity level isn't in line with the level of restraint you're trying to teach him, it can cause undue stress. And with that, rather than helping him learn tolerance for people coming around, touching or taking his possessions, it can backfire and cause him more defensiveness toward his possessions because frustration ensues when we ask too much of a very young puppy.

Again, I totally think puppies can start learning some restraint and learn some waiting manners for some of their wants.

Controlling resources and leadership is one thing. Possession guarding/food guarding is another thing and is better prevented by give and take games, trading up for possessions, retrieving, conditioning to handling food, toys, bones etc while the dog has them and proving to him that you're no threat to his stuff and in fact that having you take his stuff is actually a good thing because he gets something even better in return plus he gets his thing back again some of the time.

But since you find me to be so malicious, from here on out, I'll not interfer with your threads or questions. Hopefully, some of my words might help another reader with a first time puppy.
 

Rubylove

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#8
That was not snide - it just was some constructive criticism. If you ask for advice you really need to be prepared to accept it when you get some! Doberluv is a very well respected trainer and member of this board and she was only asking questions any good trainer would ask. Please try not to be oversensitive if people have questions about your methods - trust me we've all been disagreed with but she was not being nasty. :)

Now, back to your questions (if you are still reading this post...lol) You have the right idea, but please let me just offer an alternative opinion on `dominance'. Dominance theory is way overdone in the dog world. Dogs are rarely, if ever, trying to be dominant, and many things that are just normal doggy behaviour are mistaken for such.

Just as examples (not saying your dog does these things) barking, getting up on the lounge, disobeying your commands - these are NOT dominance behaviours, but doggy behaviours. Dogs are opportunists and will behave in a way that works the best for them. Therefore barking could be because they are bored and it's fun to bark. Getting up on the lounge could be because it's just more comfortable than on the floor. Not obeying you could mean that the command hasn't been taught thoroughly enough. Dominance is rare in dogs and especially puppies, so I would forget about that right away!

In terms of trying to stave off behaviours before they evolve - again, you have the right idea, but you need to be selective in what you're trying to guard against. Dogs need to be able to drink when they are thirsty - water should be readily available at all times and they should not have to earn it. Food, toys, coming inside, getting up on the bed - these are things for which it is appropriate to ask for a sit. Staving off things like jumping up or not coming when called - good idea, and it's always best to start early with dogs because then they will learn lifetime habits and good manners - but you need to be careful that in the process of trying to train a well-behaved dog, that you don't end up with one who is totally unsure of itself and what it is allowed and not allowed to do. Having an aggressive dog before has probably made you understandably wary, but remember that this is a different puppy and you need to work with this puppy and what it is actually doing, not what it might possibly do one day.

Until you see a sign of aggression I think you should forget about that, too. Until your puppy shows you that it is going to resource guard or bite (in a way that is not puppy mouthiness) then you are best off to treat it like any new puppy and teach basic commands such as sit, down, drop it, leave it and come (especially that one). Don't forget that nurture has as much if not more to do with how your dog turns out than it's inherent nature - so rather than trying to stop it from doing the wrong thing, you would be better to teach it to do the right thing.

Set it up for success, as it were, rather than expecting it to fail.

Good luck - it's always nice to see someone really trying to do the best thing for their dog. :)
 

animalvr32

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#9
I apologize to Dobeluv. I took what she said the wrong way and jumped the gun. Again, I appriciate everyones advice and I apologize again.
 

Doberluv

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#10
I'm sorry that you took what I said the wrong way. I do say what's on my mind and I say it quickly before I forget what it was I was about to say. :D So, maybe I come across too bluntly or something. But I only want to impart information which I think may help someone. I'm never intending to be hurtful or nasty. Maybe I'm just naturally that way.:yikes:
 

Rubylove

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#11
I apologize to Dobeluv. I took what she said the wrong way and jumped the gun. Again, I appriciate everyones advice and I apologize again.
Don't stress about it - probably too much was made of your post anyway. We tend to get a bit defensive around here. Sorry!

Now, what I think it's really important that you do know, is that it's wonderful that you are taking the time to learn the correct ways of raising your puppy, that you are asking questions and that you care enough to get it right. There are too many out there who have such a slap-dash approach to getting, raising and having a dog. It can be depressing and I for one love to see someone taking a real interest and trying hard the way you are, especially when you're mostly on the right track, and your methods just need a little fine-tuning.

I would also suggest to read some of the wonderful books out there on raising a puppy - they are a vast pool of information and a really excellent resource for the dog owner. :)
 

animalvr32

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#12
Thanks so much for the support. She is really a good girl. She starts obedience classes on the 10th. I do have a question about crating her.
She is good for all but 9 hrs overnight. Sometimes she cries and I dont hear her. I have a sleep problem and take medicine so that knocks me out.
Anyway, during the day she only will hold it in her crate for 2 hrs. She had a UTI and vaginosis and was recently spayed due to medical conditions.
She is 18 weeks old. I know this is a set back due to the health issues but I worry that it wont get better for her and us.
Also, would someone offer their opinion as to if she looks full lab or part pitt?
Please look at her pic. We resuced her so nothing is certain.
Thanks again :)
 

Rubylove

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#13
Well, there is such a thing as post-spay incontinence but she wouldn't be aware of the need to go if it were that - she'd just leak and keep lying in it and wouldn't realise, so I think that can be ruled out.

UTIs can be a big setback in potty training and you need to be aware that if she has these conditions they can recur for her life (Ruby has recurring UTIs and cystitis) and so you need to be extra careful with her.

Now, in terms of her crate training - I don't use it and never have so I can't offer you any advice (I don't think it's wrong, I've just never done it - it's not a big thing in Australia like it is in the States) but I would say that at her age with her medical history, 2 hours is not bad. She's still just a baby - I would never expect a four-and-a-half month old puppy to be completely potty-trained. It will take a few more months, possibly longer if she has had urinary tract / bladder / vaginal issues. As they get bigger so too do their bladders, and she will be able to hold it for longer.

At this age she should be going out during the night still, too. I know where you're coming from with your sleep problem - I have to take medication at night, too, which knocks me out, but I've regulated the dose so that I can wake up if need be to attend to the dogs, or if someone is hanging around outside etc. I feel safer that way.

Is there anyone that you can live with who can let her out at night? From what I understand it defeats the purpose of crate-training a little bit if she can't hold on and has to go in her crate. Also, excessive holding on when she can't manage it can also lead to more urinary tract problems.
 

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