How Important are Looks?
- Thread starter sillysally
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Cool, thanks.
I'm not doubting that I'm wrong about the form/function thing. I totally agree that a bulldog would be horrid at pulling a sled.
That I get. I'm glad for the explanations, because I'm addicted to learning about dogs and this is a fantastic place to do so.
I mean, a samoyed would be crap at trying to retrieve water foul (they'd probably eat them on the way back) and I can bet that you'll never see a sam hunting lions.
I'm very new to the breed, and I know that sams aren't the ultimate working dog. Probably that title would go to one of the central asian shepherds or something.
But, I'm just not sure I agree with Pop's other ideas about this breed. Again, I'm really, really new to sams. I just want to make sure that I understand where he's coming from, and I think the only way to do that is for me to have others in my breed read what he's said, and either agree with it or not agree with it and then explain to me why.
Not that he's not correct, but I'd feel better talking to someone who is really involved in working samoyeds who would really know their ins and outs.
Either way, I feel like learning the strengths and weaknesses of one's breed are very vital and this is a good opportunity for me explore some of the weaknesses.
I'm not doubting that I'm wrong about the form/function thing. I totally agree that a bulldog would be horrid at pulling a sled.
That I get. I'm glad for the explanations, because I'm addicted to learning about dogs and this is a fantastic place to do so.
I mean, a samoyed would be crap at trying to retrieve water foul (they'd probably eat them on the way back) and I can bet that you'll never see a sam hunting lions.
I'm very new to the breed, and I know that sams aren't the ultimate working dog. Probably that title would go to one of the central asian shepherds or something.
But, I'm just not sure I agree with Pop's other ideas about this breed. Again, I'm really, really new to sams. I just want to make sure that I understand where he's coming from, and I think the only way to do that is for me to have others in my breed read what he's said, and either agree with it or not agree with it and then explain to me why.
Not that he's not correct, but I'd feel better talking to someone who is really involved in working samoyeds who would really know their ins and outs.
Either way, I feel like learning the strengths and weaknesses of one's breed are very vital and this is a good opportunity for me explore some of the weaknesses.
No. And yes.
Could I love the right dog no matter what the look? Sure.
Do I want my Filas to look like Filas? Yes. But not to nitpicky conformational standards, measuring the nose, the length of the ears, where the tail sets, etc. to a quarter or an eighth of an inch. That's just silliness.
First it has to be a Fila on the INSIDE. Then the outside needs to be put together in such a way as to facilitate the inside. The extra long back legs and higher hips, for example. Speed, strength, stability and agility to be able to deal with wild cattle and jaguar -- or pretty much anything that can be herded or hunted. Let's face it, hunting jaguar is the ultimate test of whether or not you can herd cats.
The body needs to be able to accomplish what the mind and heart set out for it to do.
I don't want my Filas to look too much like Bull Mastiffs or Great Danes because I know that some of the show lines from Brazil have infused their lines with Bull Mastiff and/or Great Dane to get dogs that are easier for the average person to handle. They are also infusing the Fila with the health problems of those two breeds! In that way I DO care, very much, about the looks of my dogs.
Would I love Kharma less if she didn't have the look of the historical Fila? Or Bimmer if he looked like a modern GSD? Or Tallulah if she wasn't such a beautiful example of how an APBT looks? Absolutely not! Love is for what's on the inside, what makes them who they are.
Could I love the right dog no matter what the look? Sure.
Do I want my Filas to look like Filas? Yes. But not to nitpicky conformational standards, measuring the nose, the length of the ears, where the tail sets, etc. to a quarter or an eighth of an inch. That's just silliness.
First it has to be a Fila on the INSIDE. Then the outside needs to be put together in such a way as to facilitate the inside. The extra long back legs and higher hips, for example. Speed, strength, stability and agility to be able to deal with wild cattle and jaguar -- or pretty much anything that can be herded or hunted. Let's face it, hunting jaguar is the ultimate test of whether or not you can herd cats.
The body needs to be able to accomplish what the mind and heart set out for it to do.I don't want my Filas to look too much like Bull Mastiffs or Great Danes because I know that some of the show lines from Brazil have infused their lines with Bull Mastiff and/or Great Dane to get dogs that are easier for the average person to handle. They are also infusing the Fila with the health problems of those two breeds! In that way I DO care, very much, about the looks of my dogs.
Would I love Kharma less if she didn't have the look of the historical Fila? Or Bimmer if he looked like a modern GSD? Or Tallulah if she wasn't such a beautiful example of how an APBT looks? Absolutely not! Love is for what's on the inside, what makes them who they are.
No. And yes.
Could I love the right dog no matter what the look? Sure.
Do I want my Filas to look like Filas? Yes. But not to nitpicky conformational standards, measuring the nose, the length of the ears, where the tail sets, etc. to a quarter or an eighth of an inch. That's just silliness.
First it has to be a Fila on the INSIDE. Then the outside needs to be put together in such a way as to facilitate the inside. The extra long back legs and higher hips, for example. Speed, strength, stability and agility to be able to deal with wild cattle and jaguar -- or pretty much anything that can be herded or hunted. Let's face it, hunting jaguar is the ultimate test of whether or not you can herd cats. The body needs to be able to accomplish what the mind and heart set out for it to do.
I don't want my Filas to look too much like Bull Mastiffs or Great Danes because I know that some of the show lines from Brazil have infused their lines with Bull Mastiff and/or Great Dane to get dogs that are easier for the average person to handle. They are also infusing the Fila with the health problems of those two breeds! In that way I DO care, very much, about the looks of my dogs.
Would I love Kharma less if she didn't have the look of the historical Fila? Or Bimmer if he looked like a modern GSD? Or Tallulah if she wasn't such a beautiful example of how an APBT looks? Absolutely not! Love is for what's on the inside, what makes them who they are.
Could I love the right dog no matter what the look? Sure.
Do I want my Filas to look like Filas? Yes. But not to nitpicky conformational standards, measuring the nose, the length of the ears, where the tail sets, etc. to a quarter or an eighth of an inch. That's just silliness.
First it has to be a Fila on the INSIDE. Then the outside needs to be put together in such a way as to facilitate the inside. The extra long back legs and higher hips, for example. Speed, strength, stability and agility to be able to deal with wild cattle and jaguar -- or pretty much anything that can be herded or hunted. Let's face it, hunting jaguar is the ultimate test of whether or not you can herd cats.
The body needs to be able to accomplish what the mind and heart set out for it to do.I don't want my Filas to look too much like Bull Mastiffs or Great Danes because I know that some of the show lines from Brazil have infused their lines with Bull Mastiff and/or Great Dane to get dogs that are easier for the average person to handle. They are also infusing the Fila with the health problems of those two breeds! In that way I DO care, very much, about the looks of my dogs.
Would I love Kharma less if she didn't have the look of the historical Fila? Or Bimmer if he looked like a modern GSD? Or Tallulah if she wasn't such a beautiful example of how an APBT looks? Absolutely not! Love is for what's on the inside, what makes them who they are.
Ah-well...what the heck! :hail:
samoyeds aren't the only one. the rough coated St Bernards were culls from the monk's breeding program for the same reason (coat didn't insulate as well do to water retention) and were given away to people in the valleys. so for a long time people thought that's what they were supposed to look like. eventually enough smooth coats and the knowledge of them made it out for people to learn the whole story.
anyone who doubts only has to look at the aboriginal dogs of the arctic regions.
anyone who doubts only has to look at the aboriginal dogs of the arctic regions.
And the culled smooth coats were the ones with the softer temperments hehehe
And you are right about the Sammys as it applies to the other Nordic breeds too!!!! Not only do the plush coats not retain heat as well but then come warmer temperatures, the dogs also over heat far too easily. That massive coat just isn't practical in controlling body temperature from either extreme. The snow being able to sit on top of the dog without melting much is crucial to survival in the arctic too! At night when temperatures plummet, the dogs will dig down into the snow some and lay in the hole allowing the falling to snow to cover them up completely creating a cozy pocket in the snow which is actually surprisingly warm!
And if you're wondering what that may look like, this is the beginning of it...
I've been at a dogyard where you couldn't see a single dog at all. The owner gave one sharp whistle and the ground all started moving as one by one a husky emerged from the snow and shook themselves waking up LOL Quite a sight!
heheheAnd you are right about the Sammys as it applies to the other Nordic breeds too!!!! Not only do the plush coats not retain heat as well but then come warmer temperatures, the dogs also over heat far too easily. That massive coat just isn't practical in controlling body temperature from either extreme. The snow being able to sit on top of the dog without melting much is crucial to survival in the arctic too! At night when temperatures plummet, the dogs will dig down into the snow some and lay in the hole allowing the falling to snow to cover them up completely creating a cozy pocket in the snow which is actually surprisingly warm!
And if you're wondering what that may look like, this is the beginning of it...
I've been at a dogyard where you couldn't see a single dog at all. The owner gave one sharp whistle and the ground all started moving as one by one a husky emerged from the snow and shook themselves waking up LOL Quite a sight!
The coat makes a difference in the Fila, too. Shiva and Kharma are perfect examples. Shiva is from those suspect show lines and her coat is lovely and velvety and soft.
Kharma is from working lines and hers is smooth but coarser.
Shiva's coat soaks up water like a sponge. It's easy to give her a bath.
Kharma's coat repels it like mad. I have to use a spray nozzle to get up underneath the hair in order to get her wet.
Kharma is from working lines and hers is smooth but coarser.
Shiva's coat soaks up water like a sponge. It's easy to give her a bath.
Kharma's coat repels it like mad. I have to use a spray nozzle to get up underneath the hair in order to get her wet.