Discussion in 'Dog Training Forum' started by milos_mommy, May 29, 2008.
Interested in seeing how everyone teaches or taught their dog to stay.
I'd really love to see some responses to this one.
I just started working with my dog on this to help with his separation anxiety. So we're doing sit, and then stay and then I'm waiting to reward him after he holds it for a certain amount of time.
We had worked up to about a minute, and then we went outside. And he sat, And then he stayed. I rewarded him, and he made no move to get up, so I said stay again, and took a few steps away, he did not move. We literally had to persuade him to STOP staying. (I'm sure if we'd gone out of sight he would have broken it.)
So yeah, I think my dog is smarter than I am, and I have no idea how to train him.
I start out with the dog sitting at my left side, in the heel position. I say stay and move around directly in front of the dog. Only for a second, then move back to the dog's side and click/treat. I do that several times. I gradually move backwards away from the dog, a step at a time, and I gradually add time on to the stay. If the dog gets up, I tell them no and put them back where they were.
They seem to pick this up really quickly. Juno... who has a tough time sitting still... can stay for 10 seconds with me about 4 feet away so far.
I'm trying to remember specifics....
We put Buddy on a lunge line. He sat and I took a few steps back and when he stayed, I would praise him. After a few repetitions of him staying, I started naming it "stay". Slowly I worked up to moving so far back I got rid of the lunge line and would disappear around the corner of the house. He got praised and also received a treat each time. Ohhh and I would change direction of where I was going and I would walk fast/slow, etc.. I wanted him to know that stay meant stay at all times.
He's very good at his stays. Such a smart boy.
I taught Max by hainv him in front of me and taking one step back then forward and gave a treat. Slowly I increased the number of steps always returning to give a treat. If he broke the stay I would body block him back into position and cut back one the number of steps because I had been going too hard on him if he broke the stay. Phoebe's stay is her wait command that i used for the front door. that was taught by saying wait, opening the door and if she tried to go out it I closed the door. Eventually she would wait and I would open more, she got to go out when I gave the release word, no sooner. She just applied it to eerthing eventually, if I tell her to wait on a walk she will still stop even though it has nothing to do with the door and getting to go outside.
I do it pretty much the same way. I don't actually use a "stay" command ~ from the beginning of teaching a sit or a down or a stand, I use a release word before they get up. Initially, it's immediate - "sit" *butt hits ground* "free" *they get up, but at that stage they would have anyway* over time, they get used to hearing the release word before getting up, and when I begin to introduce stays, I teach them that a sit is a sit until you're given another command or released.
I do however use a "cheat" which is that if I'm moving off with the dog heeling, I step off with my left foot, if I am leaving the dog in a stay, I step off with my right foot.
Another way of doing it is a "stay" command for a stay with you returning to the dog and a "wait" command if you're leaving the dog for a recall.
Build duration, then distance, then add distractions.
Well said. Bamm already knew stay when I adopted him, but we're working on perfecting it. I like what your cheat method of stepping off on a different foot to indicate a different thing whether it be to heel or stay.
I put my Horsemen in the proper position, and said, "Nooooo" when they moved. Not harsh, but with definate disapproval. I calmly praised them when they sat, and gave them a few treats along with it. They figured it out very quickly.
I did it how BP did it, except no lunge line lol.
Ohh, the lunge line was at the very beginning only, for the first day. I didn't need it, but I wanted it there just in case.
I honestly can't remember.............
But I work on it all the time.
I just put my dogs in sit and with hand signals said stay, when they moved I put them back(I never used a leash) and I used yummy treats. I know thats not the way a trainer does it but it worked, They always stay nicely, even when we see deer, foxes, and the neighbors roaming dogs and cows.
I start VERY YOUNG with puppies, by putting them on a mat in a down, and putting them back when they move. It's very informal at first. The 2 puppies I have were both staying reliably on a down when I started my class near the first of April at 7 months old.
When I begin, as I have recently, to start the formal stay, I start with the dog at my left side in heel position. I transfer the leash to my right hand, and put gentle upward pressure on the collar to help the puppy stay in position. At the same time I say stay, give the stay hand signal with my left hand, step off on my right foot, and pivot in front of the puppy. In the beginning, I go almost immediately back to heel position. I watch the pup carefully and at the very first opportunity I begin to lessen the pressure on the lead.
Most of the time I am out to the end of the 6 foot lead within the first session.
When the pup can stay for about 30 seconds, I start building more distance and more time gradually, while introducing gentle distractions.
I return OFTEN when teaching stays to reward the dog. I don't ever approach my dog in an angry manner, nor do I give corrections for breaking stays other than putting the dog back.
As we work on stays, we also work on attention with eye contact so the dog can build attention at a distance, and stay focused on the exercise at hand.
By the time I take a dog to the ring to show, I want it almost bomb proof to the point that it can ignore demanding commands from other handlers, other dogs bouncing around the room playing fetch, all sorts of toys, balls, and etc bouncing around, food distractions, etc etc etc.
Milton is already doing short out of sight stays on the down, and working up to longer duration on the sit.
Shadow is way better than Beau in stopping and sitting. Mostly since we raised the dogs in the city, we made them stop and sit at every stop light when we walk them around to the grocery store or to the park, that gives him plenty of training.
I work on duration first, with me being in front, in heel and on the side. I use a clicker. I do not label it with any word. When starting 'stay' work, I start while in front of the dog, pivot away so my back is to them, Click, turn back, reward. Progress to taking one step, with my back turned, click, turn back, reward. I also working walking around the dog while it remains in a sit or down in both directions. Slowly adding distance, I also jump around, throw bait bags, treats, balls, toys etc while close to the dog.
I do not make eye contact with my dogs, I don't want them to learn that eye contact and watching them like a hawk is part of the exercise or backing away never breaking eye contact. Always click when I am at the furthest point, then coming back to the dog, not clicking when I get back to the dog. If the dog breaks or moves, I reset them, I do not reward them again but go back to the last distance that the dog was successful and reward.
End goal, being able to run away, jumping around like a fool and the dog never breaks the stay, even at hundreds of feet.
constant feed method. put the dog in a sit, feed, give release word and throw the last treat so that the dog gets up. lengthen the time between treats. when i have reasonable duration, i start working on distance, and then distraction, lowering my expectations for duration.
Once dog knows sit, I would withhold the click till the dog was offering 5-10 seconds of duration. Then I began to label it, and worked on longer and longer times. As I do competative obed, stay means stay, no moving about, vocalization etc. I think the moving off with the right foot if you are leaving the dog is a very common obed thing. I do it now without thinking.
When Dekka was 6 months she would 'offer' long sits-it was the cutest thing. She would sit in the kitchen doorway (where we often practiced) and would sit with her eyes 1/2 closed and wait.
GREAT thread, it is so interesting to read about how other people train things.
The way I do it is pretty much a combination of three or four other people's methods!
I start by teaching a release word for sits, downs, walking through doors, etc. Always say the release before they get up.
Then to teach stay, I start with the dog in heel position, and work on duration first. I just give the cue to sit or down, no stay cue, but treat every one or two seconds usually, as long as the dog stays in position. Sometimes with really "wiggly" dogs I'll start with a handful of treats and hold my hand at their nose and pop them treats very quickly, but within one or two sessions I'll try to start fading my hand away from their nose.
Once they're staying without the cue for about 10 seconds, that's when I start adding the cue. Then after one or two sessions of adding the cue, I start walking around my dog, and then walking away. Up to this point, I'm still giving lots of treats (about one every 3 seconds), and only doing about 15-20 seconds total duration.
Once they're very good at doing a stay for about 20 seconds with me walking away to the end of the leash, then I'll start practicing the whole technique from the beginning with more distractions. Then I start proofing it - tell them to stay and then go do something so that I'm not paying attention to them, tell them to stay while I'm sitting on the floor, tell them to stay while I pick up their leash, and on and on.
I started with Oz after he had already developed a good sit and down, and just went from there. After he was reliable for a few seconds I started doing it in the backyard. I always try to work in a high distraction environment and always make myself more interesting than whatever else is going on. Which isn't always easy, but it results in a better stay.