Horse Auction and Do-Gooder Rant....

Pops2

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#21
I beg to differ, for proper kosher slaughter the animal is bled out while FULLY concious. it is right up there w/ lung or neck shooting a deer. it is not especially quick or painless. the reason most meat is not kosher is because it is "stunned" (rendered unconcious w/ an air hammer) or outright killed in the stunning process. that is far less painful than having the jugular stuck while they are concious.
i am surprised they have kosher horse slaughter since horse is automatically uncleen under mosaic law due to not having a cloven hoof. like pork it is off limits to practicing jews.
 

ILoveMyLab

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#22
oo Maybe I should have clarified a bit more...the plant itself was Kosher certified...but that did not mean they always practiced Kosher methods. It was originally designed to ship cattle into the European markets but then converted to handle horses. I am unsure whether or not the horses slaughtered there were done by Kosher methods.
 
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#23
I beg to differ, for proper kosher slaughter the animal is bled out while FULLY concious.
Hmmm, are you sure Pops? I used to live in an area where there were a lot of Jewish communities (NY) and personally knew the family of one kosher certified supervising rabbi. According to him that's a common misconception that the animal is "bled out" while fully conscious. He was very adamant that in kosher facilities following proper procedure the animal is humanely killed first ... and then hung and bled out immediately AFTER brain death.

Here's a site clarifying that misinformation was put out by PETA that animals were fully conscious while being bled out:

Setting the Record Straight on Kosher Slaughter | OUkosher.org

Here's a short excerpt from the article:
Kosher slaughter, shechita, involves cutting the trachea and esophagus with a sharp, flawless knife. At the same time, the carotid arteries, which are the primary supplier of blood to the brain, are severed. The profound loss of blood and the massive drop in blood pressure render the animal insensate almost immediately. Studies done by Dr. H. H. Dukes at the Cornell University School of Veterinary Medicine indicate that the animal is unconscious within seconds of the incision.
 
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GlassOnion

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#24
The animal is fully conscious during slaughter for Kosher meats. The shochet (slaughterer) is supposed to be skilled enough, and his blade sharp enough, that the puncture and subsequent slice is 'painless and causes unconsciousness within 2 seconds'. This is quoted from my textbook on slaughtering.

So, how much pain they feel in those 2 seconds is up for debate. I think a cash knocker is a more humane method though. It's pretty much instantaneous.
 

Pops2

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#25
got the word from a practicing conservative jew (worked w/ him), who participated in kosher slaughter himself. in fact, he said except for the rabbi, it is identical to halal technique because they are both under mosaic dietary law. it has to be done to "clean" the meat of blood. if killed first the blood stays in the meat making it "unclean" because they can't consume blood. the blood in the meat is also why a lot of people don't like wild game and why it has to be soaked over night in salt water to pull it out.
i don't know what to tell you about what your friend said, i trust my friend and he gave details that would have convinced me if i hadn't.
 
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Xandra

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#26
Golden, you and Pops and GO are all saying the same thing... the conscious animal has its throat cut, and the animal becomes unconscious due to blood loss, then dies.

I read somewhere a theory that it doesn't hurt because the knife is so sharp and the blood loss so quick... like when you cut yourself and you don't notice till the blood is all over the place. This is because with a duller blade the flesh is torn, whereas with a sharp blade it's separated. So one quick cut... no sawing motion or anything.

The someone in Hannover determined that it was less painful than captive-bolt slaughter.

A link to the study:
http://www.halalfocus.com/artman2/uploads/1/Hanover_report_1978.pdf

As far as horse slaughter... no reason not to, but the trailers and whatnot should be made more humane.

I think it was the fuglyhorse author who said that horses should be euthanized (not slaughtered) because that's how we treat dogs and horses are more "pets" in our society than food animals. Also, that slaughter can never be humane for horses because they are so much more sensitive than cattle. (I'm pretty sure fuglyhorse said that but don't quote me).

I think that's BS. No point wasting all that meat. And the ban on slaughter was just dumb... meant to appease people who were emotionally disturbed by the thought of killing horses but put no real thought into the poor animals' actual welfare... now look what they've done :(.
 

GlassOnion

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#27
Horse carcasses are a lot harder to dispose of than a dog as well. Also they have livestock classification as far as legality is concerned and it's the same people who got horse slaughter banned that are going to get horses moved to companion animals. Then we'll really be up the creek.

Buncha bleeding heart knee jerk reactionists who can't see beyond their own noses.



I'm not bitter or anything.
 

Miakoda

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#28
GO brings up a very good point in that while many complain about those who state they cannot afford to euthanize their pet horse, they fail to realize that such owner must also pay to have the body taken away as not everyone has the land to bury such an animal and/or an excavator to dig such a massive grave.

To give an example of cost, a friend of mine down here had her horse euthanized and the body hauled away for cremation and it cost her about $1,300. Not exactly the $100 it costs to have your dog done.
 

Paige

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#29
Yupp. People who have never had to dispose of a horse don't understand that.
 

sillysally

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#30
GO brings up a very good point in that while many complain about those who state they cannot afford to euthanize their pet horse, they fail to realize that such owner must also pay to have the body taken away as not everyone has the land to bury such an animal and/or an excavator to dig such a massive grave.

To give an example of cost, a friend of mine down here had her horse euthanized and the body hauled away for cremation and it cost her about $1,300. Not exactly the $100 it costs to have your dog done.
Ehhhhh.....you don't have to have the horse cremated. In our area it's $70 to have the horse's carcass hauled away by the renderer--so it's actually less than having your dog cremated. Plus, there is no waste if the remains are rendered.

Personally, I could never stomach sending a horse I owned to slaughter. It IS an extremely stressful final ending for them, and I just could not live with myself. Horses may be officially classified as livestock, but they are closer to my dogs for me. I have a 24 year old mare who is pasture sound but is arthritic enough that she really is only good for light riding, but is not good for young kids to ride. I suppose it would make more financial sense to take her to the sale but I wouldn't do that to her any sooner than I'd send Jack to the killers. If push came to shove and I could not afford to keep her any longer and no other home were an option she'd be euthed.
 

Fran101

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#31
Ehhhhh.....you don't have to have the horse cremated. In our area it's $70 to have the horse's carcass hauled away by the renderer--so it's actually less than having your dog cremated. Plus, there is no waste if the remains are rendered.

Personally, I could never stomach sending a horse I owned to slaughter. It IS an extremely stressful final ending for them, and I just could not live with myself. Horses may be officially classified as livestock, but they are closer to my dogs for me. I have a 24 year old mare who is pasture sound but is arthritic enough that she really is only good for light riding, but is not good for young kids to ride. I suppose it would make more financial sense to take her to the sale but I wouldn't do that to her any sooner than I'd send Jack to the killers. If push came to shove and I could not afford to keep her any longer and no other home were an option she'd be euthed.
Same here. I dont have a horse but if I did, I would find a way to find the money to have him/her euthanized. or even put money away when I BOUGHT the horse in preparation for that kind of thing

I could never take an animal that I love, bought, rode, and loves me and give them up for such a horrible, stressful death like being auctioned off and shipped to god knows where.. I wouldnt be able to personally.

Again, if slaughter houses were HERE it would be different. but to be on a boat and shipped off god knows where... personally, I couldn't do it.
 
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Pops2

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#32
Sally
no one has an issue w/ your decision. what they have an issue w/ is other people who don't even own a horse making that decision for them by eliminating US slaughter houses & not comprehending the horrific impact it has had on the rate of neglect caused suffering.
 

joce

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#33
After paying for my own horses I have changed my mind on slaughter;)

I used to think it was a necessary evil.
But........
Most people now do not own large farms anymore and use horses just as work. Many people have their horses as pets or for shows,sports etc. We spend thousands of dollars to train them and do things with them, but can not pay to have them put down at home or disposed of somewhere? I think its sick to expect money for it and to ship a horse who you likely had a great relationship with to a slaughter plant. Many places do still allow you to bury at home and a bullet is cheap. For the places you may have to pay look into donating the body. I have seen how my horses are around dead animals and how they are when one of them is hurt. If I ever send one of mine to slaughter old and sick after its carted my chub butt around someone please hurt me.

We tell people who can not afford vet bills to not own dogs. Why is it any different with horses? If you can not afford a disposal fee why get it?

Now if its a farm animal and the people are in that mindset then fine. Send it to slaughter. But another thing that drives me nuts are the huge breeders that rely on the slaughter money as income. Ran into a guy at work with a quarter horse congress jacket on and started talking to him. he was complaining about a friends situation in texas where he used to make money but now that his old horses and foals that didn't make the cut were not selling at slaughter for huge prices he was going to have to slow down the breeding:rolleyes: That is whats killing the horse market. It is flooded with horses that were not worth anything before,we just had a hugely inflated market.

I am getting so sick of seeing people here with horses that are not worth a dime crying about the economy. A friends been looking for a trail horse after her 4,000 walker ended up with a neuro issue. Wants to spend 2,500 or less. All the people talk up these great horses and its only not sold because of the economy. Get there with the person still ranting about the economy to find either a barely broke horse or one who does not pass a vet check. I never would have given 1,000 for these horses much less the 10,000 the people are claiming they are really worth. The good horses are still selling. Put real training on a horse and make it marketable. Don't expect thousands for a pretty color anymore(although your lucky if you see me coming because I love pretty colors!).

The arabian barn I used to board at went down hill when the bubble burst on them. It was all about bloodlines and who cared if the horse was rideable or had any brains at all. People had these horses as their retirement plans. It was ridiculous.

I think most people with starving horses in their fields are ill regardless of the economy. Offer to rehome those horses and they would say no,those are my beloved pets.

All that said if I had an unsafe horse I would be ok with sending it to slaughter. Sounds heartless but that might be a situation where I would want to make some money back. But more likely would have someone shoot it so it doesn't end up hurting anyone. We are worried now about the horse our friend took back who multiple vets told her were unsafe,but the breeders vet said was fine. She had to give her back per their contract and will likely be sold again and someone will get hurt. (was a good horse other than the lack of muscle control! Would not send something like that to slaughter)

I would like to see something like a surrender fee for horses at slaughter plants. Let that fee go towards improving slaughter,more training for the workers.

Isn't it europe that has the knacker-or something like that? that goes around putting horses down? Some kind of service like that here would be great.
 

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