Horrifying documentary offers peek at food industry

[Herschel]

it means still eating dairy products but otherwise having a vegetarian diet.

Herschel, even the front page of that link says that most healthy dogs shouldn't be fed this type of vegetarian diet exclusively, unless they have allergies or medical issues that would make it necessary. Guilt can go a long way toward changing a person's individual preferences and choices, but in the end, do you really think it makes any significant effect on the industry itself? (to switch to a veggie diet)... not to offend but choosing to go veg for most people seems more like a way of staving off guilt over the slaughter of meat animals than changing the meat industry itself. In fact, I've seen a lot of vegitarians/vegans talk about ordering veggie meals in popular restaurants that serve it as an option for those who don't want to eat meat...but the restaurant still serves meat. So those veggie people are still feeding money into a corporation that supports this type of slaughter, aren't they? Come to think of it, if you buy a veggie food for your dog from Natural Balance or another company that has a meat-based line of foods, you're still supplying money to a company that supports the slaughter of animals, even if your chosen bag of food contains no animal stuff, right?

I just dislike this kind of guilt trip/scare tactic, though (meaning the type of video link posted originally).... screams of PETA-like tactics

Thanks for the words. I've been vegetarian for a long, long time and I'm not swayed at all by PETA. (I'm pretty against them, though)

I'm not trying to change the world, Amalthea. I like making a difference, no matter how small. Buying organic doesn't mean that land isn't going to be over farmed, leeched of nutrients, and basically destroyed, but it does mean that I'm adding to the movement of people that want healthy foods that aren't coated in synthetic pesticides. Have you ever heard or read about a certain fringe industry making "____ millions of dollars" in one year? That's because people weren't afraid to make the smallest of differences.

There is nothing wrong with being selfish, and at the end of the day, if I'm vegetarian solely to appease my conscience, so be it.

As for the restaurant example, I just had a veggie burger from Ruby Tuesday's last night. Yes, I'm feeding money into a corporation that supports slaughter, but each person that orders a veggie burger on their menu shows that there is demand for such products. It makes it clear that vegetarianism isn't fringe, it's not a fad, and people that don't eat meat actually eat at their franchise. No respectable corporation is going to ignore customer demand:

http://www.heinz.com/News_organic_ketchup.aspx

http://www.vegcooking.com/gb_vegburgers_chain.asp

http://www.welchs.com/products/bottledandcanned.html (Scroll down to see Welch's Organic Grape Juice)

 

[Herschel]

OK Herschel. :hail:

Carnivore?

Phylogenetically, yes. Behaviorally? No.
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Look at that viscious dental structure! Herbivore.
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Molars for grinding, must be herbivore, right?

No. Omnivore.

 

[Doberluv]

http://www.answers.com/topic/carnivore

Here, read this whole page very slowly. Read all of it where it pertains. Then at the bottom click on the link to read all about omnivores and read that all through. Dogs do not have grinding teeth. Thy eat primarily meat. They tear, rip, crush and go after animals to kill and devour. They're predators whose main or primary diet consists of meat. Their jaws, teeth and digestive system is that of a carnivore. Your pictures of "vicious" are off the subject. We have canine teeth as well as molars for grinding. We are omnivores. Dogs teeth and jaws are not designed to grind grain or vegetation. That they can and will eat vegetation sometimes does not make them an omnivore.

 

[Herschel]

This isn't all based on dental structure, though. Obviously dog's digestive systems can tolerate a certain amount of plant matter, and they can receive nutrients from that plant matter.

Yes, it would probably be tough for most dogs to survive on unprocessed vegetation. However, they can easily handle processed (crushed, etc.) grains.
Similarly, it would probably be tough for most people to survive on raw meat. Yet, as long as it is cooked people are fine.

"Characteristics commonly 'associated' with carnivores include organs for capturing and disarticulating prey (teeth and claws serve these functions in many vertebrates) and status as a hunter. In truth, these assumptions are misleading, as many carnivores do not hunt and are scavengers."

"Many animals generally considered carnivores are actually omnivorous; for example, the red fox eats fruits and berries as well as mammals and birds."

 

[Bobsk8]

Well according to Doberluv, if you feed your dog this Natural Balance Vegetarian dogfood, it will probably keel over in a week or two I would guess.........


http://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/dogformulas/Vegetarian.html

 

[squirtsmom]

I couldn't look.

 

[PuppyBreath]

In part, as some of you said, this does relate to animal food as well. It may not have been the right place to post, but didn't know where else to put it. Hey, I'm new...still learning my way around!

For a real eye opener, please read this topic: Killing Our Pets With Every Meal

http://www.chazhound.com/forums/showthread.php?p=548129&posted=1#post548129

I have seen all the other topics about feeding natural foods on this forum, but I thought this might really bring about more awareness for those who still doubt the food their feeding their dog is harmful.

 

[Doberluv]

Here, I recommend reading this article as well as clicking on the raw food myths link. It will explain the facts (scientific) about dogs and their way of aquiring and processing food.

http://b-naturals.com/Sep2005.php

 

[ToscasMom]

I don't know. I read all this stuff all the time about how I have been killing my pets. This must be why I had two cats die this year. One was 21 and the other was just short of his 19th birthday. I should be ashamed of myself for how I have been killing them.

Cats and dogs require meat. Cats are obligate carnivores. Dogs are carnivores. Both can eat some veggies and probably would eat plenty of them if they had no meat due to extreme hunger, so I guess that makes them omnivores to an extent, but I really believe that without the meat, I don't feel very good about just how well they would do in the long haul.

 

[Doberluv]

I agree Tosca.

They can eat vegetation but they do not have the grinding teeth to break it down sufficiently, plus they tend to gulp and gorge... and they have too short an intestinal tract to properly metabolize vegetation. Omnivores have a longer intestinal tract and herbivores still longer. They eat vegetation sometimes to make themselves throw up. They eat whatever they can find when meat is not available. Unless it is broken down (like in a food processor) and made soft with some cooking, very little nutrients are useable from veggies, grain or fruit. These things are broken down inside the herbivore or omnivore animals they eat.

Yes, there are different kinds of carnivores, like you said Tosca...cats, they need only meat. (although mine loved cantelope) lol. Dogs are carnivores but will eat a little fruits and vegetation but it is not a requirement for their needs. The fact that it is not a requirement or primary diet and on account of their physical design means that they are not omnivores. That's why I said that behaviorally, they sometimes act like omnivores because they will consume some vegetation.

 

[Bobsk8]

Yup, my well trained, well mannered (and opportunistic parasite) Doberman, Lyric.... last night opened the oven door (heat almost gone in there) and snatched most of a whole cheese pizza. Boy, was my son mad. Who would have ever thunk it? I guess he scored....have to find a new place to hide dinner.

Was it New York Style or Chicago Pan Style ?

 

[Bobsk8]

I agree Tosca.

They can eat vegetation but they do not have the grinding teeth to break it down sufficiently, plus they tend to gulp and gorge... and they have too short an intestinal tract to properly metabolize vegetation. Omnivores have a longer intestinal tract and herbivores still longer. They eat vegetation sometimes to make themselves throw up. They eat whatever they can find when meat is not available. Unless it is broken down (like in a food processor) and made soft with some cooking, very little nutrients are useable from veggies, grain or fruit. These things are broken down inside the herbivore or omnivore animals they eat.

Yes, there are different kinds of carnivores, like you said Tosca...cats, they need only meat. (although mine loved cantelope) lol. Dogs are carnivores but will eat a little fruits and vegetation but it is not a requirement for their needs. The fact that it is not a requirement or primary diet and on account of their physical design means that they are not omnivores. That's why I said that behaviorally, they sometimes act like omnivores because they will consume some vegetation.

Very informative

 

[ToscasMom]

although mine loved cantelope

Most cats do for some odd reason! Mine also love fresh uncooked green beans. I think it's mostly because they get to bat them around and "kill" them before they eat them. But I wouldn't turn it into their diet....

I happen to believe you are very right, Doberluv. I am a doggie novice but i know about cats. And I know that both NEED meat to be healthy and happy. Let us not forget the word "Happy". My dog will eat cardboard if she's hungry enough, but I can tell you straight up that if I throw a raw TBone in the yard along with an ear of corn, she's going for the TBone. Sometimes, we forget that nature is smarter than we are.

 

[Doberluv]

Sometimes, we forget that nature is smarter than we are.

Good point, so true.

Most cats do for some odd reason!

I think that they probably wouldn't waste their energy in the wild seeking it out. They'd need to conserve energy to find what they really need, but since they live with us and it's available, heck, why not. I think all or most mammals like sweet things. My cats never got on the counters. But when I forgot once and left a mellon on the counter...grrrrr. That's when the cat decided there was something tasty up there. LOL.

Green beans....well, interesting for cats. Speaking of omnivorous behavior, when I'm picking raspberries off my bushes in summer, my dogs help me. They get the lower branches or the ones on the ground while I work the tops of the bushes. They don't tend to over do it, thank goodness, (or I'm afraid of what would come out the other end) but they like a little taste of a few....strawberries too.