High Energy Dogs - Herders vs Sporting

[Elrohwen]

Lots of people describe certain dogs or breeds as "high energy", but the term doesn't mean the same thing to everyone. What do you consider "high energy"?

Specifically, what are the differences between herding breeds and sporting breeds? Both groups are generally considered high energy, but they don't necessarily have the same type of energy.

 

[MicksMom]

Lots of people describe certain dogs or breeds as "high energy", but the term doesn't mean the same thing to everyone. What do you consider "high energy"?

Specifically, what are the differences between herding breeds and sporting breeds? Both groups are generally considered high energy, but they don't necessarily have the same type of energy.

Sadly, with a lot of sporting breeds, there is a split between show/bench and field/working lines. A show/bench bred Lab generally is somewhat mellower than a field bred one.

I'm really no help with the original question- I know high energy can mean the constantly on the go, must be doing something, hardly ever settling type or the type that has can run around the yard, hike, go swimming, etc, but is also content to just hang out and do nothing. The second type is what I prefer.

 

[Elrohwen]

Sadly, with a lot of sporting breeds, there is a split between show/bench and field/working lines. A show/bench bred Lab generally is somewhat mellower than a field bred one.

Yes, it's true that there is quite a split in many sporting breeds. There are some bench bred dogs who I would consider high energy, but generally it's the field bred dogs (or dual breeds) who are generally referred to as "high energy".

And I think an off switch is a valid part of the discussion. A high energy dog who easily settles in the house is going to be much easier to live with than a dog who won't settle. I think the sporters have a bad reputation for settling in the house, but I think some of that is rumor vs first hand experience.

 

[AllieMackie]

There's also a split in most herding breeds, and the intensity of the split varies by breed. Generally it's a three-way split - the show dog, the sport dog and the working dog. The differences in personality can vary widely, and there's not really a right or a wrong - just preference.

As a broad generalization... sport-bred dogs will be the most drivey, working will still be quite drivey but also work-minded, and show will be the mellowest of the three but still quite high-energy.

Other herding dog folks will hopefully chime in - my experience is mostly with BCs, of course.

As far as what type of energy, herding breeds are smart, drivey and very work-minded. Keeping them stimulated is arguably much more a mental exercise thing than a physical exercise thing. For example, it takes three hours of running to wear Finn down, but only fifteen minutes of rigorous training work. Giving them jobs, tricks and sports to learn is crucial to their happiness.

 

[Airn]

Well when I think high energy, I generally think of herding breeds. As well as terriers. I think a breed like a lab has high energy as well but it seems pretty different to me.

The labs I've had experience with were always very silly and derpy. They were all over the place. They tended to need a lot of exercise, but otherwise, they didn't require much.

The herding breeds I've had experience with tend to be pretty serious/intense. They needed exercise as well as mental stimulation. They seem to always want to be doing SOMETHING and it's usually not running into tables. They also get easily frustrated, compared to the labs which didn't seem affected by much.

I haven't had much experience with either types/breeds, though.

 

[GatorDog]

Aiden is a show line/ working line cross GSD. He is very low drive, moderate energy. He would run next to me on a bike or a 4 wheeler all day long without slowing up from being tired, and he could probably swim in the ocean all day, but there's only so much active ball retrieving he is willing to do and he would also be perfectly happy laying around in the house all day.

Carma is a working line GSD and she is high drive, high enery. She would do any active exercises all day long. She would chase a ball all day, play tug, run miles, swim, train three phases twice, and still come back to me for more. In working, she could be a little too much dog for some people. If you can't keep up, she tends to push you for more, and a lot of people don't know how to deal with the psycho drive dog thats pushing you for the ball and all of a sudden starts to do figure 8's between your legs because you haven't asked her to do anything else yet, or tries a hold and guard, or goes through the rolodex of everything she's ever learned to try and get that ball. Luckily, she has a good off switch in the house and settles well. Most people expect her to be a lunatic in the house, but its quite the opposite.

I think the fact that Carma has such high drive is what makes her extreme high energy easy to work with. A dog with crazy high energy that really has no drive to work with you for anything is much more difficult, IMO.

 

[Elrohwen]

There's also a split in most herding breeds, and the intensity of the split varies by breed. Generally it's a three-way split - the show dog, the sport dog and the working dog. The differences in personality can vary widely, and there's not really a right or a wrong - just preference.

As a broad generalization... sport-bred dogs will be the most drivey, working will still be quite drivey but also work-minded, and show will be the mellowest of the three but still quite high-energy.

Yeah, while I find the split an interesting discussion, I was really thinking of the difference in herding vs sporting breeds when I started this thread, rather than bench vs working lines. I think there's a lot of debate around energy levels in split breeds, with some people thinking the bench bred dogs are all couch potatoes, and others thinking the working bred dogs are hyper maniacs. IME neither are true.

As far as what type of energy, herding breeds are smart, drivey and very work-minded. Keeping them stimulated is arguably much more a mental exercise thing than a physical exercise thing. For example, it takes three hours of running to wear Finn down, but only fifteen minutes of rigorous training work. Giving them jobs, tricks and sports to learn is crucial to their happiness.

It's funny, most people have always told me that tiring a dog out mentally works better than tiring them out physically, but I haven't found that to be true of my sporting breed dog. He really needs a physical outlet for his energy. Luckily he doesn't need hours of running a day, but a half hour walk will settle him much more than a 15 min training session.

Once we went to an 8 hour seminar which involved a lot of short training sessions mixed with breaks and at the end of the day most dogs were sleeping, and mine was looking at me like "What's next? Let's do something else!" He was still energetic when we got home so I took him for a walk and then he passed out.

 

[Elrohwen]

Well when I think high energy, I generally think of herding breeds. As well as terriers. I think a breed like a lab has high energy as well but it seems pretty different to me.

The labs I've had experience with were always very silly and derpy. They were all over the place. They tended to need a lot of exercise, but otherwise, they didn't require much.

What about viszla, GSPs, brittanies, and similar dogs? I've never met a lab I would consider high energy at all (most I know are pet bred or rescue, not field bred), but I've met some crazy high energy gun dogs. I do agree that some terriers could be added to the list of high energy breeds.

 

[Elrohwen]

I think the fact that Carma has such high drive is what makes her extreme high energy easy to work with. A dog with crazy high energy that really has no drive to work with you for anything is much more difficult, IMO.

Drive vs energy is another discuss I find really really interesting. Maybe I should start a thread on that some time. I have known dogs who will run for the sake of running (like up and down a tie line, with no motivation or goal). They were also dogs who could be motivated to work with you, but that pure energy was overwhelming.

 

[AllieMackie]

It's funny, most people have always told me that tiring a dog out mentally works better than tiring them out physically, but I haven't found that to be true of my sporting breed dog. He really needs a physical outlet for his energy. Luckily he doesn't need hours of running a day, but a half hour walk will settle him much more than a 15 min training session.

Once we went to an 8 hour seminar which involved a lot of short training sessions mixed with breaks and at the end of the day most dogs were sleeping, and mine was looking at me like "What's next? Let's do something else!" He was still energetic when we got home so I took him for a walk and then he passed out.

It is really interesting! I'm the furthest thing from an expert on sporting breeds, but I do know many folks who own them, plus many mixes of such rotating out of the rescue I volunteer with, and I think sporting breeds as an overall tend to be more physical vs. mental. Not that they aren't smart, quite the opposite, but when it comes to stimulation one becomes more important than the other.

Again, broadly generalizing. There are herding breeds like that and sporting breeds who need more mental vs. physical. And when it comes down to it, both are pretty equally important anyway. :rofl1:

 

[Laurelin]

I think a lot is generalized. I also think it depends on what sport you're involved in and that changes your glasses so to speak.

I know some crazy high drive labs for example. I've watched labs who want to retrieve more than anything and woul work through anything to go get that bumper. Most BCs I know would have freaked out under such circumstances at least for a minute. I did live in an area where hunting labs are everywhere and honestly... Those dogs have drive pouring out.

I think herders get hyped up. Yes they generally have energy but some of the calmest dogs have been herders. I also think Sheltie energy is pretty different than collie is different than BC is different than Aussie etc. and in sporters I like spaniel energy fine but retrievers don't seem to fit me so well and pointer breeds tend to drive me a bit nuts. I also find Aussies a bit overwhelming but not BCs.

As far as lines go the highest drive BC I know in person is show lines bred by an agility person. Oddly enough his owner says he is the calmest of her dogs in the house. (The other dogs being Shelties). He is a nutball in sports and is in overdrive a lot. So venue and where you are seeing the dog plays a huge roll. BCs are weird though. At trials they seem to turn off some of the best but when it's time to go they look like nuts. I think they are just better at conserving energy.

 

[Elrohwen]

It is really interesting! I'm the furthest thing from an expert on sporting breeds, but I do know many folks who own them, plus many mixes of such rotating out of the rescue I volunteer with, and I think sporting breeds as an overall tend to be more physical vs. mental. Not that they aren't smart, quite the opposite, but when it comes to stimulation one becomes more important than the other.

Again, broadly generalizing. There are herding breeds like that and sporting breeds who need more mental vs. physical. And when it comes down to it, both are pretty equally important anyway. :rofl1:

Yeah, I think that's the basic generalization that I hear, and IME it's probably pretty accurate. My herding dog experience is limited to friends' dogs, but it does seem to be true.

Another thing I noticed at the seminar is that the sporting dogs are more physical about everything vs the herders. We were doing an exercise where you have a 5 gallon bucket, and train your dog to move opposite of you. So if you move around the bucket clockwise, the dog should move clockwise as well to stay in the same position relative to you. The herding dogs got this instantly. It made total sense to them and most people didn't need to train much to get the basic behavior. My sporting dog kept moving towards me and wanted to bump into me :rofl1: It took him a lot of thinking to figure out what in the world I wanted him to do.

It guess it makes sense. Herders use pressure to move sheep/cattle away from them. Sporting dogs plow into heavy cover and need to be comfortable with that physical contact.

 

[Laurelin]

Paps are toys but spaniel in background and my Shelties turned off much easier than the paps. I don't think the paps are higher energy at all- the two in my experience run a similar variety of energy (sport Shelties on the whole IMO have more drive consistently but overall similar energy level). The Shelties just seem to know when to conserve energy better.

Mia cannot live with just mental exercise. Summer could though so I'm not sure there. Mia needs a good run 3-4 times a week for a couple hours.

 

[AllieMackie]

Yeah, I think that's the basic generalization that I hear, and IME it's probably pretty accurate. My herding dog experience is limited to friends' dogs, but it does seem to be true.

Another thing I noticed at the seminar is that the sporting dogs are more physical about everything vs the herders. We were doing an exercise where you have a 5 gallon bucket, and train your dog to move opposite of you. So if you move around the bucket clockwise, the dog should move clockwise as well to stay in the same position relative to you. The herding dogs got this instantly. It made total sense to them and most people didn't need to train much to get the basic behavior. My sporting dog kept moving towards me and wanted to bump into me :rofl1: It took him a lot of thinking to figure out what in the world I wanted him to do.

It guess it makes sense. Herders use pressure to move sheep/cattle away from them. Sporting dogs plow into heavy cover and need to be comfortable with that physical contact.

I've done simple distance work with my BC (stuff like "walk away from me, around that stool, and come back") and he picks it up almost instantly. I'm sure it's instinctual.

 

[Elrohwen]

I think herders get hyped up. Yes they generally have energy but some of the calmest dogs have been herders. I also think Sheltie energy is pretty different than collie is different than BC is different than Aussie etc. and in sporters I like spaniel energy fine but retrievers don't seem to fit me so well and pointer breeds tend to drive me a bit nuts. I also find Aussies a bit overwhelming but not BCs.

Good point. I hear so much "I like herding dog energy, but not sporting dog" or the reverse, but I think it's probably more subtle than that. I've met aussies who honestly remind me a lot of my spaniel in personality, but then I don't live with them so maybe they're not as similar as I think.

My dog is honestly not what I would consider high energy, though I've had other people tell me he is (generally when he's way over aroused and acting ridiculous, which isn't his normal state). I haven't met too many dogs who I would consider super high energy (including herding dogs I know) but I'm not around high drive working malinois or anything either. I've always wondered what it's like to really live with a dog like that. I have some experience with people who lived with high energy pointers and those dogs seem a little nuts.

 

[JacksonsMom]

From my few agility courses I've taken, and just experiencing dogs in general, I definitely see the difference but it's hard to explain.

Like the BCs I have been around are high drive, and when they're doing something, they're fast and high energy, but I wouldn't really consider them 'hyper'. Every one I've been around is very focused. Whereas most of the sporters I've been around (and most were definitely fieldbred in my agility classes) were a huge BURST of physical energy. It took longer to get them to slow down a bit and focus more because they just wanted to GO. But they all really wanted to please their owners so were very willing to learn and smart. Sometimes they didn't think totally clearly first, but they weren't dumb by any means. Just a totally different type of energy.

Same with terriers. I find a lot of terriers are somewhat in between because they've certainly got the energy, and a lot of them can be quite high strung, but most I see in houses are capable of chilling and are also good house pets. And most are really smart but they also have that bit of stubbornness. Like, Jackson, is very 'into' me and focused and loves learning and is very motivated to do so. But let him off leash and there's a rabbit over there? He will most certainly chose the rabbit over me and the tasty treat in my hand. He will eventually come to me but not without chasing the rabbit first.

And in my agility class, the trainer has a BC that she can put into a down stay and it will basically stay there the entire class. Jackson would never do that without constantly be reminded. Not sure if that's a terrier thing though, or just a me training issue LOL... but I have certainly noticed herders are more apt to listen to what you say once, and obey, and especially at long distances.

 

[Elrohwen]

Whereas most of the sporters I've been around (and most were definitely fieldbred in my agility classes) were a huge BURST of physical energy. It took longer to get them to slow down a bit and focus more because they just wanted to GO. But they all really wanted to please their owners so were very willing to learn and smart. Sometimes they didn't think totally clearly first, but they weren't dumb by any means. Just a totally different type of energy.

Totally agree with this. Watson takes a while to really settle in and work, and the first few attempts are a mess. Part of it is his age, but I think he also just needs a good warm up period before his brain can function and focus on a task.

And in my agility class, the trainer has a BC that she can put into a down stay and it will basically stay there the entire class. Jackson would never do that without constantly be reminded. Not sure if that's a terrier thing though, or just a me training issue LOL... but I have certainly noticed herders are more apt to listen to what you say once, and obey, and especially at long distances.

I've seen BCs do this and it blows my mind. Definitely not something my dog would be able to do with any amount of training - I would constantly need to be watching him and reminding him. At an Ian Dunbar seminar he told a story about a down/stay contest they had at an off leash working seminar he did. A BC won and he asked the owner how long the dog would stay there, and the owner had no idea. The dog had never broken a stay. They left him there for a really long time before finally letting him get up, because nothing was going to break his focus on staying in that spot until his owner said the word.

 

[Laurelin]

A girl I know who bred aforementioned crazy BC had that dogs mother in a down stay next to a busy agility ring off leash last weekend.

I can't even get Mia to stay for a few seconds. Lol.

 

[Elrohwen]

Watson's funny and will stay a reasonable length of time if he has distractions to focus on. So I can run around the room, or throw toys, or whatever and he focuses on staying. As soon as nothing interesting is happening, he decides the stay is boring and gets up to sniff a piece of fluff on the floor. lol Weirdo. He also puffs his little cheeks in and out in concentration/frustration.

He's the worst next to other dogs, especially labs and goldens, because he'll start making eyes at them like "Are you bored? I'm bored. Wanna get up and run around? Me too!" In class I make sure to put him on the end next to the keeshond who won't break for anything, and won't look at him.

 

[PWCorgi]

I think I view BC/Koolie herder energy vs. GSP/Vizsla sporting energy a split in focus. Herders have A LOT OF ENERGY but can focus on tasks, wheras the sporting breed dogs I see tend to have A LOT OF ENERGY and no clue what to do with it. This is just in the dogs I've seen though, and it's entirely possible that the sporting breed people just aren't training the way the herding people are. And I should preface this by saying that I am talking about pointers/setters and not spaniels/retrievers, because for some reason I see way more of the pointers/setters, and I guess I don't even consider the labs because 98% of them are BYB with clueless owners.

As far as terriers go, it is a different kind of energy IMO. Siri has a lot of energy, and I work hard at putting it to work in constructive ways, otherwise it tends to come out in a frustrated/angry sort of way. She HAS to be busy, and run hard at least every other day or she can be a PITA to live with. She has energy and she (sometimes) has focus, but her frustration tolerance is low so if you don't stay on top of lots of feedback and make it worth her while, she'll throw you a big FU and leave. There's no half-assing it with her