Here's the thing....

Discussion in 'The Fire Hydrant' started by Miakoda, Aug 15, 2012.

  1. Miakoda

    Miakoda New Member

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    First, I want to say how much I enjoy being friends with many of you on this forum. I love that my beliefs bring me close to those with the same beliefs, and I love that my beliefs, which are the polar opposite of some others' beliefs, do not stop us from also having a friendship. :)

    I've been in many discussion recently on my stance with the whole gay marriage issue. I've made people on both sides mad. :lol-sign: But I think it's important for each person to have the opportunity to explain what they believe and why. In addition, it just makes for good discussion. ;)

    Gay Marriage:

    I'm not for nor against it. In truth, I think the federal government needs to get out of it. At the most, it should be a state governing issue. At the least, just make it legal already and move past it.

    My feelings on homosexuality are complicated. I think people are who they are. I have friends, who are a "lesbian couple" (although I don't bother thinking of them that way), and I know for a fact that 1 is in the relationship after a horrid 15-year marriage with an abusive husband. She has openly said that she couldn't look at men the same way. For her, this was a "choice". For her partner, also my friend, she had always known she was "different" (aren't we all....lol). Thus it could be said she was "born this way".

    Here's the thing: no matter what someone does, I hate sin. But I don't hate the sinner (I'd be my own #1 hater! :D ).

    In fact, my heart breaks that we treat others, especially those struggling with feelings and emotions they cannot get a grip on, with disdain. God doesn't love the "in-crowd". Jesus didn't hang around the good kids who never did anything wrong.

    I don't get why we can't open our arms and love people and show them kindenss.

    I am very close to one particular cousin, and to be frank, I always thought he was gay (or would be gay). I just always had that feeling. He, too, was brought up in the Baptist church, but they switched to Greek Orthodox when he was about 15. We're in our 30's now. It breaks my heart to watch him struggle with his own sexuality, especially the feelings of wanting to love and be loved by that one special person, and yet struggle with his perception of what the Bible says. He attends church every Sunday, and he enjoys that time. But at the same time, he's waging an internal battle between religion and himself. Here's the thing: religion is MAN-MADE. It's not about religion; it's about a personal relationship with God.

    Yes, I've read the Bible from front to back and back to the front again. I've done numerous Bible studies throughout my life. I took 4 years of Bible classes in high school. I know what the Bible says.

    It is not my place in this world to pass judgment and condemn someone (I'm not talking about a thief going to court...I'm talking about the person himself/herself). That's not my place, and it's specifically talked about and looked down upon in the Bible. Yes, we all make judgements on a daily basis - it's what helps us to make our own decisions as to what is right or wrong and whether or not we should do it or not. That kind of judgement happens. But it's not my place to turn my back on someone who is gay, nor on someone who told a lie or stole something or who had an abortion. I may not like and/or condone the action, but it doesn't mean I don't like or love the person. Heck, I'll be the first to admit I'm soooooooooooooooo not perfect (I know, I know....hard to imagine, ain't it :p ).

    I always hope that people know they can come to me regardless of differences. I pray that people know that I wouldn't ever turn my back on them based upon their sexuality. The only job God gave me is to love and be a vessel for His grace. I'm to stand up for what I believe in, and I'm to be the best example I can be. I'm to witness, not just by words, but by actions. I'm not perfect. I've made mistakes. I'm a good ol' sinner. I'm not to forsake my beliefs for what is popular, but I'm also not to distort my beliefs to apply them in a manner they are not truly applicable (if that makes sense).

    I want to thank y'all for reading this rambling post. I'm not even sure why I felt the need to write it, but I just did. As much as I love having friends and friendships with those different from me, I love that those same people respect me for who I am and are willing to put in the same level of attention to establish a mutual friendship.

    Difference shouldn't equal hatred.
     
  2. Renee750il

    Renee750il Felurian

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    "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." Ghandi

    Now, whether he actually said those exact words or not, I think he would have liked you very much indeed.
     
  3. -bogart-

    -bogart- Member of WHODAT Nation.

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    That was beautifully written.
     
  4. ACooper

    ACooper Moderator

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    First of all *PHEW* This post started out like a GOOD BYE! :eek: Thought I'd missed some horrendous thread (as happens due to my powers of observation, LOL) So glad it's not! LOL

    Let me say that I identify with your post.........I could easily sign my name to it, that's how I see myself :)

    Exactly.

    So many Christians want it both ways, they want to LIVE by the new testament, and want OTHERS to be measured by the old testament. Doesn't work that way.

    I'm a Christian, I make mistakes, I sin, I sincerely ask forgiveness, dust myself off and try hard to do better.
     
  5. sparks19

    sparks19 I'd rather be at Disney

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    Thank you for writing this. This is how I feel about it. I feel like in this day and age if you disagree with somethig someone does it automatically equates to HATE and judgement of the person (although those who say you hate or judge are usually also judging you in that moment but that is another kettle of fish)

    Hate the sin love the sinner. I am a sinner... We all are but I don't have to love everyones actions in order to love the person.

    I don't fight to keep gay Unions illegal. I don't agree with homosexuality but I don't actively fight against them ... Of course I couldn't even if I wanted to because I can't vote here anyway but still. I don't boycott companies that support "gay rights foundations". For me... If you have good customer service and a good product I really don't care what your personal beliefs are as log ad you aren't himan tafficking in the back room or somethig. Idon't go to chick fil a because the founder doesn't believe in gay marriage. I go because i like their food, their customer service is out of this world, they have a great play area and they employ people who might not oterwise have a job without one extra company in town.

    Love each other, always. I fail at that a lot. We all do.

    Faith... A personal relationship with God. That's where it's at :)
     
  6. Pops2

    Pops2 New Member

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    i think the goverment needs to get out of the marriage business as well. I think they need to recognize all unions as the private contracts they are and leave it at that.
    i too think a great many people (on both sides of the issue) are confusing disapproval of the act with hate for the person.
     
  7. HayleyMarie

    HayleyMarie Like a bat outa' hell

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    Wonderful! :) totally on the same page as you as a christian.
     
  8. sillysally

    sillysally Obey the Toad.

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    Thank you *so much* for writing this..... :)
     
  9. JoLeigh

    JoLeigh Member

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    Miakoda I agree SO much with about everything you said your the type of Christian that makes me proud to be associated with you a a sister of Christ. I could never be ashamed of my faith but there have been many a time I have been ashamed to be associated with many other Christians! And that is so very very sad.

    My view point goes right along with my thoughts or interracial marriage. If it is between consenting adults it is NOT the governments place to be in your bed or your marriage. If you want to be in a homosexual interracial polygamist find other homosexual interracial polygamist's and have at it it is no ones business who you choice to spend the rest of your life with.
     
  10. corgipower

    corgipower Tweleve Enthusiest

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    The bible may not support homosexual marriage (I'll have to take the word of others on that statement as I've never read the bible), but marriage isn't exclusively Christian.

    As a Wiccan I do not see homosexuality as sinful and I do not see any reason why Christians should have any say in who I can marry.
     
  11. Greenmagick

    Greenmagick New Member

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    I guess my thing is marriage is a CONTRACT that has numerous benefits that are legal and binding...yes, government is involved in that and I want it to stay that way. Gay couples absolutely deserve those same benefits.
     
  12. Fran101

    Fran101 Resident fainting goat

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    What you believe is totally up to you. and I applaud you for making this post because it is refreshing to see a christian POV that isn't so erm..hateful.
    but what greenmagick mentions is my thing as well. I just don't think the government or ANY religion has any business meddling in these kinds of things or has the right to dictate who can/can't get married based on their rules that not everyone chooses to follow.
    "Marriage can be a religious thing. It can also be a secular thing. And guess what? Not everyone in the world is of the same religion or of any religion at all. Preventing gay people from getting married is not an expression of religious freedom. It’s an expression of religious oppression"

    I believe in the separation of church and state. It's there for a reason.

    You have the right to believe/not believe what you wish and I think it's great that what you believe doesn't involve hating other people. I hate when people assume that because I fight separation of church and state that I have something AGAINST christians/religion. Which I totally don't!
    as Matthew Shultz said.
    “You’re allowed to believe in a god. You’re allowed to believe unicorns live in your shoes for all I care. But the day you start telling me how to wear my shoes so I don’t upset the unicorns, I have a problem with you. The day you start involving the unicorns in making decisions for this country, I have a BIG problem with you.â€
     
  13. corgipower

    corgipower Tweleve Enthusiest

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    Don't be so silly!
    Unicorns would never fit in a shoe. :p

    And now you leave me wondering just what the country would be like if it was run by unicorns. :D
     
  14. sparks19

    sparks19 I'd rather be at Disney

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    And I dislike that if you are against homosexuality that it means you hate homosexuals and you are a bigot and trying to take away civil rights. It sucks when you believe something and the opposing side twists it to mean you mist hate the person or be against them doesn't it?

    It would be nice if we could just leave marriage to whatever venue you choose to get married in and then file the contract with the government for the legal perks instead of the government getting to decide who, how, why and so on. Leave it up to private entitys to decide who to marry and then file the paper work for the legal aspect after just like you file for the name change stuff rther than needing permission from te government to get the license in the first place.
     
  15. Renee750il

    Renee750il Felurian

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    Exactly!

    And yes, the whole twisting thing pisses me off too, in every way. It's propaganda, pure and simple, of the lowest most obvious sort. Are there some people who are against someTHING and also hate someONE? Sure. But it's not everyone, and usually those are the people who are doing the twisting anyway, or falling for it.

    One of the worst is the way somehow "Pro-choice" is turned into "pro-abortion." I don't know too many people who like the idea of abortion or are FOR abortions -- I do know, though (myself included) many people who are for not handing over a personal issue to the federal government. Big difference. But "pro-abortion" gets people riled up and reacting with their knees jerking instead of thinking.

    Imagine how the issue of "gay marriage" would be perceived if it were more accurately talked about as "equal marriage."
     
  16. Greenmagick

    Greenmagick New Member

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  17. Linds

    Linds Twin 2

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    At the end of the day though, actions speak louder than anything else to me. So how you treat anyone of a different sexuality from you is what I believe is important. And it makes me happy that there are people that can still treat those who they see doing something wrong with as much kindness and courtesy as anyone else.

    But that doesn't mean that one day I hope that a piece of what makes up someone, that harms no one and involves no one other than other consenting adults is not seen as something to be forgiven on par with other wrong doings and "sins" and is rather seen as just a person, living their life.

    That being said, I do believe the government should be out of religion completely and that includes marriage. I don't think marriage should give you any legal rights. I think civil unions should be equal to what marriage is now in the eyes of the law. But, if marriage is going to be part of the government I do take issue with gay marriage not being allowed. Pick one or the other.
     
  18. Greenmagick

    Greenmagick New Member

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    Agree with the first two paragraphs completely but this one...
    What bothers me...marriage is NOT religious. Religions use it yes, but in and of itself marriage is secular. Why should I give up getting married because some religions want it to themselves? I am not civilly unioned to my husband, I am married and religion has nothing to do with that.
     
  19. LindaJD

    LindaJD New Member

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    I consider myself a christian and I also consider my self a conservative. I do believe in God, but I do not agree with many of the positions of the church and I do not go to church anymore. My faith in god hasn't gone away but my faith in my church has. I believe gays should have the right to marry, and I also believe a woman should have the right to choose but with limitations. That's opinion and many many others I know who also consider themselves conservatives and christians. I want the government out of my business as much as possible.
     
  20. sparks19

    sparks19 I'd rather be at Disney

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    You think the legalities of marriage ends with gay marriage?

    A venue doesn't nessecarily mean a ceremony, tradition, etc. It would be easy to get government out of the business of marriage. There are churches, weddig chapels, etc. there can be venues where you just go in ad sign your marriage contract without ceremony, tradition, etc. go there, sign your contract and file it with the government rather than having to go to the government for your license (their permission) to marry and then have your ceremony (or not).

    Get the contract from whatever venue supports your marriage and then file it with the government for the legal things just like a name change. Seems easy enough and then there won't be any issues where the majority gets to decide who can and can't marry
     

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