Help me to understand....

D

Dobiegurl

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#41
Well, I'm not really into showing (conformation) but I will get a show dog down the line. All my future dogs will be working dogs, and when I find (IMO) one of the best working dogs, I will breed her (once she proves that she is worthy to produce quality pups and has her titles to back her up) to produce high quality working dogs, mainly for myself and others who want a good working dog.

I don't like mutts, I like certain breeds and looks and I don't want to take chances on how my rescue dog will perform, or if he/she has the drive for the work and the temperament. I prefer to trust responsible breeders who breed for working quality then take my chances.
 

SizzleDog

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#42
I know that everyone and if not everyone, then most people are aware of the millions of dogs that need forever homes... so why do these same people buy dogs? And if you breed dogs, why do you breed? I've seen pictures of many of your dogs and there are indeed beautiful, but why do you do it?


I have two very well-bred dogs and I love them to pieces. The reason why I went for a responsible (different than reputable) is because I want to know what I'm "inviting to dinner".

Health. From knowing my dogs' pedigrees and knowing their relatives and ancestors, I know what to expect - I know that my dogs have very good hips and elbows in their pedigrees, so chances are that they'll have healthy hips and elbows. I know there are virtually no eye problems in their pedigrees - there's another health issue I can tick off the list. My dogs were created in the process of lessening and eliminating health problems, such as Wobblers, CAH, and to an extent, cardio. I know what my dogs' ancestors died of, I know which ones are still alive and kicking. have a pretty good idea of how my dogs will mature, and I'm fairly certain they'll live LONG lives... my dogs' pedigrees are built up with LC (longevity certified) ancestors. I also know what to consider if I see a problem... if my dogs every develop liver problems, I know where it came from. If they develop Wobblers, I'll know which part of the pedigree is responsible. If my dogs display symptoms of a health probelm that my vets cant' figure out, I'll ask my breeder and she might be able to tell me that the *same thing* happened to such-and-such a dog in the pedigree, and what the problem ended up being... thereby saving my dog's life, or at least speeding up diagnosis and treatment.

Temperament. Many rescues will not adopt out a dog with any shred of aggressiveness. I'm a small statured, female college student, living alone - I want a Doberman with *controllable aggression* by my side... if I'm attacked or mugged, I want a dog whose relatives and ancestors passed on the temperament to defend me... with the titles to prove it. My dogs are pets, but they are also my working dogs - I want to make sure that my dogs can do the job that they were meant for. Show me a rescue that tests their Dobes for formidable agression to an aggressor, and I'll be sold on that rescue!

What I want. Yes, I'll admit it - I want specific qualities in my dogs. This isn't purely selfish - I have the dog's interests in mind as well. I want a dog that is easy to groom, a dog that can keep up with my energy, a dog that I can take into teaching and "ambassador" situations. I want a large dog - but not too large. I can't imagine having a dog whose coat went to pot because I couldn't groom it... or a dog that had to stay at home - alone - while I go on a ten mile hike... that's not fair to the dog.

As far as showing goes.... my show dog loves to show. He was in a very bad, abusive, neglectful home. When I got him, he was scared fo everything, nervous, stressed, and in bad physical condition. Showing in conformation is our way of bonding - he gets so excited when we pull into a show site, because he *knows* he gets to have some one-on-one time with his Momma in the spotlight. People coo over him, he gets treats and pats, and he gets to go out and have fun with his heart, his soul, his protector and savior (me). I've never seen Ronin happier than when he's in the ring with me. I don't only show for the ribbons and the rare scrap of prestige... I show for Ronin - it's his passion, and I'll cater to that passion - even if it's expensive and difficult and trying at times. And not all champions are bred. Ronin will never be bred, and I'm fine with that. And responsible breeders don't make money on breeding, it's the oldest "old wive's tale" inthe book that they do.

I find that most people opposed to showing are those who have never seen a dog show in real life. Some dogs dont' like to show... and the'll likely be pulled from showing and be put into pet homes. A dog usually has to *ask* for the win - the dog has to look alert, happy, and confident - dogs arehonest creatures, and the judges can tell when a show dog isn't asking for that win. The best show dogs out there are the ones that love to show... the ones with finesse and pizzaz, the ones that strut into the ring and say, "Look at me, and see that I am great. Let's get this show on the road, so I can show you how magnificent I really am!"

Showing may not look like much fun if you watch it on a TV screen... but in real life, showing is exhilarating - and it's a great way to bond with your dog. A good team is always more prepared to win... and what better way to become one - a true team - than to go out there and have fun with your best friend...

Rant finished! ;)

P.S. This is a show dog waiting to go into the ring. He just looks miserable... ;)
 

SummerRiot

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#43
I have a purebred because I like his breed characteristics. Hes completely compatable with me. His personality, brains and.. naturally looks lmao!(just joking).. but seriously

hes got everything I'd want in a dog. With a mutt you dont always know what you are going to get, sure you might know their mix but you never know which side they take after.

I show Riot b/c its a hobby of mine now that my horse is sold. I used to show him.

Plus, I think Riot likes the ribbons :
 

JennSLK

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#44
I bought Emma from a pet store. No I'm not proud of it. I HAD intentions of breeding her, but now that I have moer experiance in the dog world I realize I dont want to breed for many reasons. The main one, is she's not a good representation of the breed. I still love her to death.

Now, why do I do agility with her?

1) Exersize for me and her
2) It keeps her mind active
3) Gives me Something to do with her to help us bond
4) She loves it
5) I love it.
6) I am HIGHLY competitive. I cant wait to get my first ribbon with her. BUT, I allways say, if she wins nationals I will love her to death. If she never even runs a qualifying round I will love hre to death.

I am have a pure bred doberman puppy. Why did I get her? Because I am adicted to the show ring. It's SO fun, win or loose to me. If Jazz doesnt want to show, then I will get her CH as quick as posible then retire her to a pet.

I would like to point out that my dogs are PETS first and foremost. I dont care how well or bad they do in the ring, when they come home they sleep with me and I love them
 

Buddy'sParents

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#45
Thank you for you posts... and again, I just wanted some answers and I feel I finally got some. And to the people who really took the time to explain their reasoning to me, especially Iliamnas and Sizzle... thank you.

I don't plan on ever breeding or buying a dog and showing it, but I know many many people who do and for most of those people it is a status thing. And because I only "know" these people, they are the only ones (and experiences) I have to base my opinions on. I knew that I would get more answers here, specifically honest answers, which is why I started this thread to begin with. So, yes, I already had my preconceived notions, but I really wanted people to open up so I could better understand the drive behind breeding and showing.

While I still won't buy from a breeder and will always spay and neuter any animal I have, some chaz members have provided me with valuable insight that I probably wouldn't have gotten anywhere else.

And...I'm attending a dog show this weekend and I don't see anything wrong with breeding and/or showing, I just wanted to know why some people do it. Whatever floats your boat.. as long as dogs are taken care of and loved and having a good time-knock yourself out. I'll stick my mutts and rescues. ;)
 

doberkim

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#47
Dobiegurl said:
I don't want to take chances on how my rescue dog will perform, or if he/she has the drive for the work and the temperament. I prefer to trust responsible breeders who breed for working quality then take my chances.

i dont think youve ever really experienced working with a rescue from that very statement.

the top doberman in the rally world, is currently a rescued bitch- she is the top dobe in MULTIPLE venues, not just AKC.

its ironic - i go to a rescue because i know *exactly* what i am getting. how many puppies do people get that dont turn out to be what they were supposed to be? ask sizzledog how many puppies she had before she got her dog?

drive and temperament can be evaluated when they are young, but you wont KNOW until the dog is grown. when i evaluate at 2-3 year old dog, i know what the drive and temperament is, then and there.

but then again - anyone can train a puppy. it takes a true dog trainer to train a rescue :)
 
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#48
doberkim said:
but then again - anyone can train a puppy. it takes a true dog trainer to train a rescue :)
if only that would be true.....obviously not anybody can train a puppy or there wouldnt be so many dogs ending up in shelters to begin with......

and i dont think that rescues are ingenerell a challange to train. doesnt that totally depend on the dog? i bet there are rescues out there that are the easiest dogs ever. already housebroken, good with children, good with dogs and cats, sweet temperament, obidient.
while with a puppy you still got a lot of work ahead!
 

Buddy'sParents

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#49
bubbatd said:
I believe I stated why I bred ! Also with all my health checks and insistence of the same for the sire or dam , we produced quality pups.
You were only one breeder though Grammy, I wanted to hear from others and more! ;)
 

Buddy'sParents

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#50
I think people cringe at rescues because most are mutts and some people may or may not want to admit it, but they don't want a mutt, they want a pure bred quality dog and well, mostly for selfish reasons.

Those that don't show but have their purebred (speaking of majority and not aimed at anyone on chaz forums) don't seem to realize that there are perfectly good rescues with top quality dogs because those rescues take the time to work with each dog, they place them in quality fosters and are given the attention that they really deserve.

We had no idea what we were getting into when we adopted Buddy. The SPCA thought he was a shepherd mix *snickers* and knew nothing about where he came from because he was dumped at the shelther. Within two days of our bringing him home he became gravely ill and spent a loooong week in intensive care.; We had (and sometimes still do) have difficulties training him and he seemed to think he was the alpha of the family; he's stubborn and bull headed but he's MY DOG and I love him to pieces-would I do it all again? ABSOLUTELY.

Now, I won't ever adopt from that same SPCA but there are plenty of others and there are TONS of rescues with great dogs, even pure breds that I would and will go to.
 
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#51
Buddy'sParents said:
* I really want to know everyone's reasoning for breeding or for buying a pure bred dog...Help me to understand why there are millions, literally millions of dogs out there that need a home (to be rescued) and people then buy from a breeder....Why? What's the point in having a full bred dog?
I've had three dogs and they were all from shelters - one was a purebred, and she'd be my reason for buying a purebred puppy in the future. I loved her looks, her personality and her behavior so much, I know that someday I will get another of her breed. I realize that no two dogs are identical, but
controlled breeding does make it likely that, say, a good Golden will be sociable and friendly, while a good Doberman will be alert and bold. That's the thing that really does hurt about mixes - their uniqueness means that you can never quite find a similar dog when your beloved pet dies. One of my dogs was a very nice mix who blended the intelligent trainability of terriers with the aloof self-reliance of the huskies. I've found since her death that pure terriers have a level of alert busines that drives me crazy, and pure huskies tend to be too predatory and remote for my taste.

I haven't bought a puppy in the past because - well, I was also conflicted about the idea of buying a puppy while dogs are being killed in shelters for lack of homes. And it's cheaper to adopt a 1 y/o dog for $100 than to buy a puppy for $800 and have to do all the first year vet care.

About show people - I have known some people who show their dogs, and while I'm sure they get an ego trip out of it and while I'm sure there are people who are in it primarily for their ego trip, most of the people I knew loved dogs and wanted to spend time with them. I knew one woman who read "Big Red" as a child and that was that - she grew up, bought an Irish Setter and never looked back. I'd bet there are a ton of stories like that in the dog show world.
 

bubbatd

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#52
When Chip is no longer, I will first go to Golden rescue .... if nothing there fills the bill, I'll go to the HS.....at my age,( and with a grandboy & other family dogs in the picture ) temperment etc will be #1.
 

kiwifruit

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#53
I think everyone who is willing to be on these forums about dogs is already a step up from many dog owners who are very irresponsible with their dogs which lead to the overpopulation of shelters. I doubt anyone here is that type of owner, if they were, they would either have left because they don't really see pet ownership the same way we do.

I don't think the question of why we buy/breed purebred dogs when there are so many other dogs out there should be targeted at people who buy/breed purebreds, but to those people who buy a dog from a puppy mill, or people who breed because they think it's cool to have a litter. I'm not saying it's not a legitimate question, but if we're talking about selfishness and irresponsibility, I don't think that pertains to people here. I think it's a great thing to rescue a dog, to kind of pick up the mistakes of other people. But that kind of act isn't meant for everyone, and it shouldn't have to be.
 

Buddy'sParents

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#54
kiwifruit said:
I think everyone who is willing to be on these forums about dogs is already a step up from many dog owners
.

Absolutely.. that's why I started the thread... to get honest answers from people who adore their dogs....




kiwifruit said:
I don't think the question of why we buy/breed purebred dogs when there are so many other dogs out there should be targeted at people who buy/breed purebreds
Why not? They breed and and buy pure breds, only they can answer my questions.
 
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#55
All this "you don't know what a rescue dog's personality will be" is crap. Shelters evaluate. They find out what the dog is like. And if the dog is not a good temperament (such as if the dog is extremely aggressive towards humans), most often the dog is put down. Some shelters take the time to train the dog out of it's aggression or other problem.
 

Buddy'sParents

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#56
bubbatd said:
When Chip is no longer, I will first go to Golden rescue .... if nothing there fills the bill, I'll go to the HS.....at my age,( and with a grandboy & other family dogs in the picture ) temperment etc will be #1.

It seems temperment is the #1 priority of many people and I think it should be... we wouldn't be able to have children (in the waaaaay distant future :) ) or another dog if Buddy had a bad temperment. Grammy, how old is Chip?
 

Buddy'sParents

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#57
gaddylovesdogs said:
All this "you don't know what a rescue dog's personality will be" is crap. Shelters evaluate. They find out what the dog is like. And if the dog is not a good temperament (such as if the dog is extremely aggressive towards humans), most often the dog is put down. Some shelters take the time to train the dog out of it's aggression or other problem.

Maybe people have had bad experiences with rescues before and that is why they think so poorly of rescued dogs? Just because I got Buddy and he was sick doesn't mean I won't ever adopt or rescue again, I just won't go back to that same place. Seems to me that a lot of people are jaded and/or don't want to put the time into a rescue.. which is fine, it's their perogative. I get satisfaction in knowing that every dog my husband and I adopt, or my parents adopt, means one less dog dies that day or the next.
 
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#58
There are some bad shelters out there, that place dogs that should not be placed, or are not ready to be placed. But that's not make all the shelters out there bad, and it bothers me when people assume that all rescue dogs have tons and tons of baggage. When I got my lab, she was emaciated, she was terrified of all men, terrified of all loud noises. She was also used for breeding, poor thing, she was just treated as a puppy making machine. And I'm so happy to see her at a healthy weight now, is only wary of certain men, and doesn't mind loud noises as much as she used to. My terrier mix is from a shelter. We got her as a puppy. I don't exactly remember what her rescue story was, but I know it was bad. My border collie mix lived with druggies. She was a very tiny little thing, just skin and bones. She didn't get much food and was forced to live outside with two male chow crosses in -0 weather. Now she's at a healthy weight, she has a gorgeous coat, she lives inside, she gets fed every day and spoiled with treats throughout the day. Thinking about what might've happened to my girls if we hadn't taken them with us, I'm glad they're here. They're amazing dogs with amazing temperaments, they're extremely intelligent, they're sweet, and they're adorable.
 

Doberluv

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#59
I think it's a wonderful thing to adopt and save shelter dogs....very admirable. Adult dogs, you can see what their temperament is like, but with puppies, it's hard to tell how they'll be when adults, both temperament wise and physically. I know someone who lives in the heart of a big city and wanted a medium sized dog. The shelter people told her what they suspected the puppy would be like and told her what they thought were the breeds which made up this dog. Of course, they cannot be faulted for guessing wrong. The dog turned out to be almost the size of a Great Dane who cannot get proper exercise where this person lives. The temperament, it seems turned out sweet, but more energetic than supposed.

I know someone else who wanted a dog who was easy to train. It was a cute puppy and the shelter people told her it was most likely GSD with possibly Pit Bull. By looking at the pup, as he grew, it was most apparent that the dog has a good deal of hound in him. He does not resemble a GSD in the least. The dog is not easy to train, having an extreme prey drive and a rather low pack drive.

You don't know the health or genetic history of a shelter dog. Did the parents have hip dysplasia or progressive retinal opathy (blindness) or patella luxation (messed up knees)? You don't know what vet bills you're going to end up with anyhow but with a shelter dog, you really don't know anything about their ancestors. With a well bred purebred, at least you go in with your eyes open and prepared for what may come down the road.

I bet most adoptions turn out fine. But for those who want more security in what they're getting, who want specific traits for their own reasons, they should not be faulted. There's a place for mixed breed dogs of unknown pasts who are homeless and there's a place for purebred dogs bred by responsible breeders. Where there is NO room....is for irrresponsible breeders breeding purebred dogs who are un tested and people letting their mixed breed dogs breed, when there are already millions who are homeless. Again, the number of top notch purebred dogs being bred by responsible breeders is vastly surpassed by mixed breed dogs bred by irresponsible owners and "greeders." (puppy mills, byb etc)
 

Dreeza

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#60
gaddylovesdogs said:
All this "you don't know what a rescue dog's personality will be" is crap. Shelters evaluate. They find out what the dog is like. And if the dog is not a good temperament (such as if the dog is extremely aggressive towards humans), most often the dog is put down. Some shelters take the time to train the dog out of it's aggression or other problem.

LOL, not very well. And not all do.

I figured the woman we got Oakley from would have a good idea of his temperment...seeing as he lived with her.

At the time, i didnt really understand that "tons of personality" and "loves attention" were code for massively psycho crazy energetic dog...

When we went to visit him, he was going nuts...she assured us that it was cause he was really excited, and had never been to the pet store before (she was adopting out of pet supplies plus)...she said he was normally pretty good on a leash, and didnt tug that much...


Well..umm, ha, if oakley pulling so hard on his leash causes him to hack, and lose his breath/gasp for air constantly...then i dont even wanna know what she considers 'pulling hard'

also...like i said before...she definately did not mention (or didnt know about ) his umm, 'episodes' where he would go nuts...later diagnosed by a behaviorist as a sort of seizure...

shelters TRY to evaluate. once the dog gets to the new owners house, everything could change.

Kinda reminds me of the horses at my horse camp i used to go to. People could "adopt" them for the winter, and would always have funny stories about how different they were! The super energetic, disobedient ones, would suddenly turn into a dream to ride. This one stubborn, clumsy horse competed in dressage, and won lots of ribbons during the winter...

Different environments can bring out certain things. It is incredibly tough to evaluate this in a shelter...
 

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