Help me choose kibble

[Specsy]

I don't want brand suggestion... I have 2 brands to choose from regarding affordability. Orijen is about $200 for 13kg here and thats crazy. Keep in mind that the kibble is only temporary until I start feeding raw. I am going to give the ingredients and analysis not the names of the products to prevent bias.

Product A:

INGREDIENTS:
with Chicken (minimum Chicken 20%, Chicken and Turkey combined 30%): Ground maize, chicken and turkey meal, cellulose, soybean meal, digest, maize gluten meal, dried beet pulp, pea bran meal, animal fat, dried whole egg, flaxseed, vegetable oil, potassium chloride, L-carnitine supplement, salt, L-lysine hydrochloride, dicalcium phosphate, taurine, L-tryptophan, vitamins and trace elements. Naturally preserved with mixed tocopherols, citric acid and rosemary extract. (en-ZA)

ANALYSIS:
It's a long list that doesn't copy/paste properly so I will just put calcium and phosphorus. I don't know what the fancy headings mean either.

As fed Dry matter per 100 kcal
Calcium 0.70% 0.77% 189mg
Phosphorus 0.61% 0.66% 164mg


Product B:

INGREDIENTS:

Chicken (>20%), maize, wheat, sorghum, barley, animal fat, poultry meal, dried beet pulp, chicken digest, dried whole egg, brewer's dried yeast, potassium chloride, salt, sodium hexametaphosphate, fish oil, DL-methionine, linseed, glucosamine hydrochloride, chondroitin sulphate. [for < 10 kg] Contains EC permitted antioxidant. [for >= 10 kg] Contains EC permitted antioxidant: tocopherols.


ANALYSIS:
Crude Protein:23.0%, Crude Oil:13.0%, Crude Ash:7.0%, Crude Fibre:3.0%, Moisture:8.0%, Calcium:1.00%, Phosphorus P:0.85%


Also on a side note, product A was listed as a 1 star product on an analysis website and product B was 2 star, but it was analysis on a different countries product so I am sure ingredients do differ slightly therefore I want opinions from here please

 

[Izzy's Valkyrie]

If you're planning on switching to raw, why not look at a lower priced grain free food? Both of those have an exceptional amount of grains in them and aren't wonderful foods.

 

[Specsy]

There aren't any grain frees except Orijen available in South Africa at the moment. Yes honestly I have looked, that's why I want to make the switch to raw, but I can't do it just yet because I am not comfortable with the amount of knowledge I have on it yet, and while I research my kids do still have to eat It's probably going to be a month or 2 months maximum that they will eat the kibble while I try and source raw ingredients and do research.

EDIT: Forgot to mention there is literally only ONE person in the WHOLE of SA that sells Orijen.

 

[Izzy's Valkyrie]

You should talk to Puppydog, she runs a dog products shop in SA and might be carrying some of the better foods

 

[Specsy]

I do speak to her She feeds raw too, her store is for accessories... Not food. The best food in available in SA which are considered vet foods are, Royal Canin, Hill's Science Plan, Eukanuba umm and I think that really sums it up and 2 of them is what I have posted above(I am sure puppydog herself will be able to confirm this). It took me TONS of searching to find that ONE person who sells Orijen and to be honest $200 is a bit steep for a 13kg bag to feed 3 dogs. Also the person is located about 18000kms away from me or so.

EDIT:

Puppydog also live some 15000+kms away from me as well.

 

[MicksMom]

Can you keep them on what they're eating now until you switch to raw?

 

[Specsy]

Can you keep them on what they're eating now until you switch to raw?

I have decided to do that, I asked puppydog for her advice and she gave me a list of things to add to the food I am on now (Eukanuba) until I go to raw.

 

[Specsy]

I will post pictures as soon as I start feeding proper raw Yesterday I gave my dogs some raw lamb bones, bones, not meant bones, just so they could chew on and sort of let me get comfortable with the idea of raw. It wasn't all that bad except, obviously being bones they did take it all over the house, and it was kind of messy but nothing too bad...

 

[naturalfeddogs]

There aren't any grain frees except Orijen available in South Africa at the moment. Yes honestly I have looked, that's why I want to make the switch to raw, but I can't do it just yet because I am not comfortable with the amount of knowledge I have on it yet, and while I research my kids do still have to eat It's probably going to be a month or 2 months maximum that they will eat the kibble while I try and source raw ingredients and do research.

EDIT: Forgot to mention there is literally only ONE person in the WHOLE of SA that sells Orijen.

Just a little info on raw that will help you greatly, is dogfoodchat.com. They have a raw forum with experts who can give you links to more reading and info. Believe it or not, raw is much cheaper than kibble. Even free if you find the right sources. For example, here is deer hunting season and I just went to a fairly local processer and got close to 400 pounds of meet/bone free. Its left overs they have to pay to have picked up. Free for us!

 

[Specsy]

Thank you! Any help is some help. Considering I don't live anywhere near where hunting is allowed I highly doubt I would get meat for free, but I am trying to source things at the moment. I do want to feed my dogs human grade food though, I had bad experiences with pet mince and stuff...

 

[happydog owner]

In order to feed a raw diet safely, other than wild meat as previously mentioned, then you should use a service for raw feeding (mail order), which can be expensive. Why don't you just cook for your dog. That way you kill any bacteria and they will get a balanced diet. You can always supplement with a little kibble.
The threat of making family members sick from raw meat from grocery stores is very, very real. This should not be taken lightly. The contaminated feces will enter your soil and is a concern if you have children. The dogs can handle the raw meat, but the bacteria can be transmitted to humans through licking and feces. Also touching the fur if the dog has licked itself.
Most raw food supporters do not sufficiently address this issue.
Calmer Canine

 

[happydog owner]

If you decide to do this and want any help, just send me a message.

 

[Specsy]

Actually, I don't plan on feeding wild meat at all, I am going to be feeding human grade food, food that I, myself would eat. We never buy anything fresh from the butcher and immediately cook it, we always buy bulk and put it in the freezer until we are ready to use it. We have a system at our home where we always take the frozen meat still left over from the previous month and put it on top of the meat we just bought so the older meat has to get used first. This means that the meat we use has usually been deep frozen for at LEAST a week but usually much longer. I would assume freezing kills most bacteria and I would defrost the dogs food the same way I do my own, put it in the sink with boiled-and-still-hot water until the meat is defrosted. There are no young children who play in the sand. The youngest family member I have is 14...

Also I followed the link you posted, I feed my dogs liver bread already, for training purposes, I just use a different recipe to you though, with a lot less grain products in it. Flour is the only grain product in it and I only use 350g of it where as I use 500g chicken/ox liver, egg is also amongst the ingredients I use in my recipe.

I would still like your input on your concerns after this post I have made. I am still in the researching phase so I will take your concerns into consideration and address them as best as I can with the knowledge I have. I really appreciate your posts

 

[naturalfeddogs]

In order to feed a raw diet safely, other than wild meat as previously mentioned, then you should use a service for raw feeding (mail order), which can be expensive. Why don't you just cook for your dog. That way you kill any bacteria and they will get a balanced diet. You can always supplement with a little kibble.
The threat of making family members sick from raw meat from grocery stores is very, very real. This should not be taken lightly. The contaminated feces will enter your soil and is a concern if you have children. The dogs can handle the raw meat, but the bacteria can be transmitted to humans through licking and feces. Also touching the fur if the dog has licked itself.
Most raw food supporters do not sufficiently address this issue.
Calmer Canine

When food is cooked for dogs, it loses the majority of nutrition for them. Dogs have systems different from us that are desigined to eat raw meat. Bones included are highly digestable as long as they are not weight bering bones. You handle raw meat when you cook for yourself, and what do you do after? Wash your hands. This is no different. Feces will make you sick regardless, human or animal, again regardless. Feces from dogs on raw turn a powdery white (due to bone) and disenagrates away, not even an odor, which comming from us humans, is toxic.(hence ventilation). Try out dogfoodchat.com, the raw section and you will be AMAZED at what you will learn!

 

[naturalfeddogs]

And, frozen appr. 24 hrs makes fresh game safe, what is in the stores is already human grade.

 

[ihartgonzo]

In order to feed a raw diet safely, other than wild meat as previously mentioned, then you should use a service for raw feeding (mail order), which can be expensive. Why don't you just cook for your dog. That way you kill any bacteria and they will get a balanced diet. You can always supplement with a little kibble.
The threat of making family members sick from raw meat from grocery stores is very, very real. This should not be taken lightly. The contaminated feces will enter your soil and is a concern if you have children. The dogs can handle the raw meat, but the bacteria can be transmitted to humans through licking and feces. Also touching the fur if the dog has licked itself.
Most raw food supporters do not sufficiently address this issue.
Calmer Canine

Poppycock! And :spam:

You can feed a raw diet very safely with human grade meats! The feces of dogs fed low grade kibble that contains dead, diseased and dying meat is much more disgusting and dangerous than the tiny, firm, easily broken down poops of raw fed dogs. No matter your dog's diet, you should always keep your pup's sanitary area clean, bathe them regularly and clean up their poops. AND thoroughly wash your hands and bowls after feeding, whether it's Eukanuba or raw.

I would recommend teaching each of your dogs to eat their raw either outside (if you have a yard/balcony) and/or on a towel, mat or newspaper. If they're crate trained, you can feed them in their crates and easily wipe them down with an antibacterial wipe afterwards. I don't let them drag the raw bones around the house, personally.

 

[Specsy]

My dogs have been eating inside. I have fed them barbequed meaty bones before, and they were quite big and although I fed it to them outside they brought it inside. How do I train them not to bring it in? I have tried taking it back outside everytime they walk in with it but they still bring it in. So I tried a firm NO and chucked it back outside but to no avail...help??

 

[puppydog]

With my guys, when they get a RMB I just close them outside. I feed premade ground raw in a bowl in the kitchen, so no issues with them making a mess. Basically, when they mess around with food like switching bones and hoarding bones I just take them away and they don't get it back. Can't behave then no fun.

Have you done much research on ground, premade to get you started? It is often the confidence boost you need to get going on prey model. I feed ground because I have issues with organs on prey model, they just won't eat it.

 

[Specsy]

I have done research into it, and I am waiting for a lady in Fourways to get back to me on a price and ingredient list... She still hasn't and I asked her on the 16th of January already, she is the closest person to Centurion that does premade raw. I'm not lacking the confidence to feed raw I am just lacking the sources/meat stockists. I am trying to get quotes for BULK meat, as it should work out cheaper that way but so far it isn't. The problem is I only know where the butchers are, I have no idea where to find the people that supply the butcheries and nobody is actually willing to give out that information. The other people I know that feed raw buy all their food from Woolworths. To me that is slightly ridiculous, I don't even buy my own food from Woolworths because of the cost.

 

[naturalfeddogs]

I have done research into it, and I am waiting for a lady in Fourways to get back to me on a price and ingredient list... She still hasn't and I asked her on the 16th of January already, she is the closest person to Centurion that does premade raw. I'm not lacking the confidence to feed raw I am just lacking the sources/meat stockists. I am trying to get quotes for BULK meat, as it should work out cheaper that way but so far it isn't. The problem is I only know where the butchers are, I have no idea where to find the people that supply the butcheries and nobody is actually willing to give out that information. The other people I know that feed raw buy all their food from Woolworths. To me that is slightly ridiculous, I don't even buy my own food from Woolworths because of the cost.

With the exception of being able to get wild game free right now, we get our foods from walmart. They often have sales, and they are the cheapest on chicken quarters for just starting out. Here, a 10lb bag averages $5.00.