Heeling wide and crooked sits, Flip Finish

[luvs2showdogs]

I figured I might as well jump in somewhere otherwise I might just end up lurking lol.

I have a brittany that I am training to compete in AKC obedience. We have been doing really well with the minor setback of me learning that it is a rule to have either your left arm at your waist or both arms at your sides. (I always did this backwards with my right arm at my waist. I don't know why lol.) I always wondered why the exhibitors usually had their left arms at their waist...Anyways then began the process of re-training my dog and what was infinitely harder; myself. I think we are finally getting it though.

These are basically questions on how to correct a behavior and proper ring procedure.

PUsually I hold the leash and the treats in my left hand and toss them down at him while heeling when he is looking at me or right after we halt and he sits. Recently he has begun to sit slightly turned so he is facing me at my side. I know this is not correct, but short of holding the treat right in front of his nose I'm not sure how to fix it.

I have entertained the idea that maybe he feels if he angles his body he has a better chance of catching the treat but I'm only speculating there. Any tips would be greatly appreciated.

Once in a while he also heels wide. Once again I thought maybe this was because he wants to have more distance in order to catch the treat. We are doing better with this issue though.

On the flip finish-My beagle does one fine, my britt is taking a little longer to catch on but that's okay. I was wondering; after you do the hand signal and your dog is on it's way to the heel posistion is it okay for you to put your left hand back at your waist or does it have to remain at your side? I'm hoping for the former because me putting my hand at my waist gets my dog to sit faster.

Also is it okay to say your verbal command while doing the hand signal? I usuallly say "swing" and do the motion.

Thank you to anyone who has any advice at all. It's greatly appreciated.

 

[Dekka]

For straight sits... Feed treat to the left of the dogs head. Practice us against a wall.

As for flip finish, I leave my hand on my waist..its a 'we are heeling now' signal. Actually all have to do is put my hand there and dekka flips into heel. I don't think you can do both hand and voice, but I would check the rules, as I don't do UKC obed.

 

[luvs2showdogs]

Hey great thanks! I'll try that next time we practice.

I'll have to check the rules. I know they differ from AKC to UKC. We don't have any UKC here that I know of so I do AKC, which is fine by me because I love the AKC's environment.

Thanks again!

 

[Doberluv]

Great ideas from Dekka, as usual.

I also like clicker training for tidying up things or getting more precision. It's really great for shaping (or rather, re-shaping lol) behaviors. However, I do not show Lyric so I can't help you with the rules. You should be able to find that stuff online on their site....just to make sure.

 

[luvs2showdogs]

I have just started introducing him to the clicker. I couldn't find it for the longest time *blushes* Thanks!

 

[tessa_s212]

When you do a recall, your hands MUST be at your side and must remain their during the finish. If your signal for the flip is to simply move your hand back to your waist, you cannot give an additional voice command.

In AKC obedience you can only do voice or signal, not both. In UKC, you may use both voice and hand signal.

 

[Doberluv]

Yeah! Tessa is so bright and right up there with the protocall! Wonderful!

 

[elegy]

i really like the clicker for heel. i've been working with a new trainer and really learning how to make use of the clicker to teach the dog a) what you want and b) they're in charge of making Fabulous Things happen for themselves by offering the correct behavior.

she has me feed treats directly by my leg where her head should be without her having to move at all out of heel position. in your case, i'd stop tossing them. you want more control than that. she also has me using a lot of toys and throwing the toy this way or that (luce loves to chase) and completely removing her from heel position.

 

[Dekka]

When you do a recall, your hands MUST be at your side and must remain their during the finish. If your signal for the flip is to simply move your hand back to your waist, you cannot give an additional voice command.

In AKC obedience you can only do voice or signal, not both. In UKC, you may use both voice and hand signal.

Hmm I think if you use the signal hand on waist, your hand can stay there when the dog is in heel position. (at least I know most people I know who do AKC do it, and don't seem to loose marks)

 

[otch1]

Hi luvs2show, got your pm. Nice to talk! Because you want to compete at higher levels, condition yourself to giving hand signals now, that are precisely placed, as you'll eventually be phasing verbal commands out. We think a lot about our foot work (important) but sometimes forget about placement of arm, height of hand signal, shoulder cues, ect. A hand signal for a recall, is with your right hand, left hand at your side, dropping your right hand as soon as dog is in forward motion. Dropping it any later I've found, can cause some dogs to redirect attention to the motion of your hand and be slightly off on the sit. When signaling for a swing/ finish, hand should be low and level. Some people go high and out, causing the dog to hop up slightly, go wide, then go to heel. When you then move off to heel, he's already out of position. Ideally, you want the dog to stay balanced and move forward, disengaging rear and swinging around very precisely. I find that requires the dog to be balanced on those front paws first. No hopping. It does depend on the dogs size and conformation, as well. Your left hand on a swing should go back to your waist,(careful where that elbow and shoulder are, tight on your body, head up and no bend at the waist) once command is given to then be ready to cue dog up into heel when needed. A lot to remember! Lol It really is like dancing with your dog. You have to be an excellent lead in order for them to follow correctly. Start teaching your dog in, up and back with left shoulder cues. If you're in a comp. class, your trainer should teach you this soon. This will help you a great deal on lefts and about turns when heeling. Your dog often learns to wrap or is out of position when treats are kept in the right verses left hand, you're slow to reward from your left hand or hand is in incorrect position, you're dropping your shoulder, spitting the treat incorrectly, ect. Sorry, I know it's gross for most, but I always have food reward in my mouth, spitting treat to the more mature pup/dog from a front, getting it only when he catches it, and from left hand at hip, when in heel position. Breaking your wrist to your left will also straighten your dogs sit if he wraps. As they say, if you have control of the head, you have control of the body. I also teach on the wall when there's a problem with a sit. Can't wait to see pictures of your Brittany in action.

 

[Dekka]

One word of warning for people with small dogs and large chests 'spitting food' (which works great in all other circumstances) I taught Dekka to heel along looking at my face. Now I must slouch a little in training. We went to our first obed trial (hers not mine) When she was a year old. I set her up, stood up straight and off we went. Poor 11 inch dog couldn't see my face for my left breast...so she forged (heeled to far a head) so she could see my face. LOL I need a bra that pushes the 'girls' over to the right. (we got a 193, and 194 1/2 all marks lost for forging I believe...sucked we were 1 point of high in trial)

 

[Doberluv]

LOL I need a bra that pushes the 'girls' over to the right.

LOL! Dekka, that is the funniest thing I ever heard. (sorry, not to be insensative to your plight) But who would've ever thunk it?

So, how did you end up fixing that situation?

 

[otch1]

Too funny Dekka!!! That's why treats when dog is in heel position are always given from left hand at hip and spit only when dog's in front. If you're good about cueing back with your left shoulder and keeping your chin up, even a small breed should be able to see your face and remain in position. Although... when we're talking about more than a double DD issue here, you have a point! Ha.

 

[RedyreRottweilers]

I figured I might as well jump in somewhere otherwise I might just end up lurking lol.

I have a brittany that I am training to compete in AKC obedience. We have been doing really well with the minor setback of me learning that it is a rule to have either your left arm at your waist or both arms at your sides. (I always did this backwards with my right arm at my waist. I don't know why lol.) I always wondered why the exhibitors usually had their left arms at their waist...Anyways then began the process of re-training my dog and what was infinitely harder; myself. I think we are finally getting it though.

It is so hard to retrain. For anyone else reading this, if you intend to show your dog, do the research and make SURE you are starting off correctly. Read the rule books. Or take a class so you can find out.

These are basically questions on how to correct a behavior and proper ring procedure.

PUsually I hold the leash and the treats in my left hand and toss them down at him while heeling when he is looking at me or right after we halt and he sits. Recently he has begun to sit slightly turned so he is facing me at my side. I know this is not correct, but short of holding the treat right in front of his nose I'm not sure how to fix it.

1) stop tossing. Give the food directly from your hand.
2) stop letting the mistake happen. When you are about to halt, put the food ON the dog's nose, and sit him where he is supposed to be. Cue him with your foot cue, whatever you are using to cue sit, and say SIT exactly when you give him the foot cue. (for example, I use a slightly shorter slightly slower step with my left foot to cue sit).

I have entertained the idea that maybe he feels if he angles his body he has a better chance of catching the treat but I'm only speculating there. Any tips would be greatly appreciated.

See above. Stop tossing. HOld the food in your left hand, put it ON the dog's nose, and sit him where he is supposed to be.

Once in a while he also heels wide. Once again I thought maybe this was because he wants to have more distance in order to catch the treat. We are doing better with this issue though.

Shorten your leash to prevent wide heeling. Heel next to walls or fences to correct crabbing and crooked sits. I also teach directional commands prior to any forward movement heeling. I teach the dog to move forward (get up), back (get back), in towards me (get in) and to get wider away from me (get out or get off). I use the food on the nose to teach the dog these movements. Sometimes a dowel to gently teach the dog to move back or off is helpful. The dowel is NOT used to imtimidate or strike the dog, but as a gentle helper to teach him to move away from it for a food reward. Once a dog has learned these verbal commands, then heeling becomes a fun exercise, since you can tell the dog what you want instead of using the leash.

On the flip finish-My beagle does one fine, my britt is taking a little longer to catch on but that's okay. I was wondering; after you do the hand signal and your dog is on it's way to the heel posistion is it okay for you to put your left hand back at your waist or does it have to remain at your side? I'm hoping for the former because me putting my hand at my waist gets my dog to sit faster.

Your hand must go back to your side, since hands must be at the side during the recall.

Also is it okay to say your verbal command while doing the hand signal? I usuallly say "swing" and do the motion.

This is find during training, but one must use either/or in the ring, or get a substantial deduction for an additional command.

Best of luck in your continued training with your dogs.

 

[Dekka]

LOL oh we are talking more than DD.... (Nature was very..ahh generous, with me) I only spat treats when doing fronts/recalls) I did a lot of C/T and feeding from my left hand (which, red, is really hard to do neatly to a dog who's head is less than a foot from the floor) But I had always rewarded her for keeping her eyes on my face....

The only time I like chucking food when teaching heeling is if your dog lags in the about turn. I will about turn and toss the treat infront and slightly infront (so I do slightly more than a 180) This has worked great with students. I found out later a big obed trainer in my area (Marie Sawford) also does this.. I had thought I was clever.

The Snip and eventually Scandal will be trained to look at my left hand, not my face...unless I can get someone to make me a custom bra.