Heartworm preventative questions

[Saeleofu]

Okay, I haven't read all the posts yet, because I'm in a hurry (I WILL go back and reread, though).

First off, there's no reason for a heartworm test to cost $100. That's ridiculous. A heartworm test at my clinic costs about $30 - $35 (an Idexx 3DX SNAP test).

Yearly tests ARE a good idea. First, depending on what preventive you're giving, the dog may appear to have eaten it all but missed some or spit some out and you didn't notice. Or there may be some reason the dog isn't absorbing it (I know a dog with EPI that's had this problem and has tested positive off and on). Also, the heartworm test tests for 2 or 3 tick diseases too.

If you keep giving ivermectin, it will not kill the dog if the dog has heartworms - it will actually treat them, albeit slowly. Some types of hw preventative are dangerous if the dog is positive for hw though (and I think you're aware of this).

Now, finally...there is a shortage of immiticide. If a dog has heartworms right now, they may or may not be able to be treated with immiticide (the standard treatment) because it's in VERY short supply. Instead they'll be treated with...*drumroll please*...Ivermectin

Cats CAN get heartworm, but it's rare. For a few months we tested every cat we pulled blood on (the test was free for them because we got some samples from I think Heska), and none of them tested positive. We did recently test one cat for heartworms after it came in for trouble breathing, and it was negative. Our clinic recommends Revolution for cats because it does prevent heartworms and is the same price as other flea control.

As for indoor animals, mosquitoes can get inside, so even indoor cats and dogs can get heartworm.

So, basically take that for what it's worth and use your own judgement

 

[noludoru]

I work with a rescue group that goes to the local reservation and gives dogs Heartworm meds, tests, shots and free spay/neuter clinics. When we find dogs that are positive the treatment is monthly Heartguard.

If you keep giving ivermectin, it will not kill the dog if the dog has heartworms - it will actually treat them, albeit slowly. Some types of hw preventative are dangerous if the dog is positive for hw though (and I think you're aware of this).

This was my understanding of the situation. I found it ridiculous that I had to argue it when I happen to know that that particular vet office treats animals with heartworm that way. Thanks, both of you.

Again, I just want to say that I don't have a problem with testing Middie. I do think the likelihood of him having heartworm is slim enough that I don't want to pay $100 for a test that should cost half that, though, if that makes sense.

 

[corgipower]

Heartworm | B-Naturals.Com Newsletter

Preventing Heartworm Infection in Dogs (Chemoprophylaxis) - VeterinaryPartner.com - a VIN company!

DogAware.com Articles: Heartworm Prevention in Dogs

Wow...learned more than I ever wanted to know about heartworm in my recent googling blitz. Apparently, the alternate treatment other than immiticide is not just ivermectin. It's ivermectin + doxycycline. Note too that "immiticide is the only approved treatment for heartworm" .

 

[RawFedDogs]

RawFedDogs, are you sure about the mosquito thing?

Yes, the only way a dog can get heartworms is from a mosquito bite from a mosquito who has bitten another animal who was heartworm positive.

 

[noludoru]

RFD, sometimes when people ask you a really stupid question about a ridiculously obvious comment that you made in their thread, it's just sarcasm.

CP, I'm going to read those links, but. . . doxycycline? Really?

 

[RawFedDogs]

RFD, sometimes when people ask you a really stupid question about a ridiculously obvious comment that you made in their thread, it's just sarcasm.

Oh, sorry. I just looked at the source and figured it was a serious question. :rofl1:

 

[puppydog]

Oh, sorry. I just looked at the source and figured it was a serious question. :rofl1:

Oh look! It's the king of the world!!! :rofl1:

 

[noludoru]

Oh, sorry. I just looked at the source and figured it was a serious question. :rofl1:

You probably just skimmed the OP and didn't realize that I understand that heartworms are transmitted by mosquitoes by my posts about them. Or completely ignored all the links and excellent posts in the thread that say just that and figured I'm incapable of reading or something just because I don't respond to every single bullet point in every post.

CP, I just wanted to thank you again for all the links. <3 *hugs*

 

[RawFedDogs]

You probably just skimmed the OP and didn't realize that I understand that heartworms are transmitted by mosquitoes by my posts about them.

I just went back and reskimmed the OP and all your other posts in this thread up until you asked the question about Mosquitoe. The word "mosquito" is not in any of your post. It is not mentioned one single time.

Or completely ignored all the links and excellent posts in the thread that say just that and figured I'm incapable of reading or something just because I don't respond to every single bullet point in every post.

No, I'm sorry, I don't have time to read all the links in every post. I rarely read them unless its on a subject of which I have limited knowledge.

 

[colliewog]

Just to toss this out there, but in Florida, I am not aware of a vet that doesn't require yearly HW testing before prescribing preventative. I've worked for vets in 4 different counties since 1984 and it has always been the norm. Some won't write the Rx for mail order, some will but charge an "Rx fee". Since I know they're losing revenue, I'd be willing to pay that. I give Interceptor at a much lower dose (for HW only -- not at the dose to kill intestinal parasites -- often called the "Safeheart dose" after a dose level that was tested, but subsequently not released, although it passed testing). Instead of the 51-100 size, I only need to give the 11-25 size ... BIG savings there. (Can't give the ivomec due to the MDR1 issue in one dog and hence I don't want the drug in my house).

Most vets won't recommend that owners give ivomec for 2 main reasons - (1) more room for user error if the dosage is measured incorrectly and (2) the preventative manufacturers for Heartgard and Interceptor guarantee their product - if a dog was tested negative and compliant with medication, but gets HW disease anyway, they will pay for the treatment.

Regarding costs - there are often 'vaccine clinics' given at our local pet stores (traveling vet who comes to the location once a month). They vaccinate, test, and provide preventatives at a much lower cost. If you have a healthy dog who doesn't need a relationship with a regular vet, this is a good option. I have done it before in a pinch, but usually will save up and pay the higher prices to be able to see someone I know and who will give me the lower doses of Interceptor without question. You do what you gotta do to keep them healthy - cut corners where you can without sacrificing their health.

 

[colliewog]

First off, there's no reason for a heartworm test to cost $100. That's ridiculous. A heartworm test at my clinic costs about $30 - $35 (an Idexx 3DX SNAP test).

My visit comes out to that with a HW test (combo test for Lyme and Ehrlichia too ... just 'cuz that's the test they like) and an exam. This is their policy and they are competitively priced for the area. Other clinics in the area will test without an exam, but you can't get the pills without the exam. Catch22 there ...

 

[Saeleofu]

My visit comes out to that with a HW test (combo test for Lyme and Ehrlichia too ... just 'cuz that's the test they like) and an exam. This is their policy and they are competitively priced for the area. Other clinics in the area will test without an exam, but you can't get the pills without the exam. Catch22 there ...

Our exams are close to $40, so with the test it'd be about $70ish. We'll prescribe with just a test though...the only routine thing we don't do without an exam is vaccines. We'll dispense without a test (and with a waiver) as long as we've seen the dog in the past year.

 

[corgipower]

I give Interceptor at a much lower dose (for HW only -- not at the dose to kill intestinal parasites -- often called the "Safeheart dose" after a dose level that was tested, but subsequently not released, although it passed testing). Instead of the 51-100 size, I only need to give the 11-25 size ... BIG savings there. (Can't give the ivomec due to the MDR1 issue in one dog and hence I don't want the drug in my house).

Most vets won't recommend that owners give ivomec for 2 main reasons - (1) more room for user error if the dosage is measured incorrectly and (2) the preventative manufacturers for Heartgard and Interceptor guarantee their product - if a dog was tested negative and compliant with medication, but gets HW disease anyway, they will pay for the treatment.

A couple of things that should probably be mentioned...the "SafeHeart" dose of Interceptor is doable, but should be given every 30 days - it was never tested for effectiveness at a longer duration. Ivermectin was shown to be 100% effective at a 60 day interval, to have a margin of error, 45 days is what I do. I don't know how long full dose interceptor has been shown effective for.

Also if you use the prescribed meds (Heartgard or Interceptor) in an "off-label" way ~ giving a lower dose or giving it every 45 days ~ the manufacturer's guarantee is nullified.

 

[Bigpoodleperson]

I have my own heartworm prevenative protocol which allows me to only give my dogs 4 doses of the prevenative per year. It's really very simple if you understand the life cycle of a heartworm and understand how the prevenative works.

Here's what I do. I don't give prevenative during the winter when there are no mosquitoes. BTW: Mosquitoes are how dogs get heartworm. Also, the heartworm larvae enter the dog's body through a mosquito bite. It remains a larvae for 45 days before becoming an adult heartworm. Sooo ... I wait until about 42 days (6 weeks) after mosquitoes appear around here. They usually appear around the middle of April.

Toward the end of May, I take my dogs to the vet for a heartworm check which is about $20 if there is no exam included. The heartworm check can be done by a vet tech and isn't expensive if I don't have to pay for a physical.

Soooo ... if the test is negative, and it always has been, I don't have to give a prevenative for 45 days. Thats because the "prevenative" isn't actually a prevenative. It kills any larvae that is in the dog's body the day it is given. So if the larvae are killed they never become adult heartworms. That puts the first dose of prevenative around the first part of July and every 42 days after that (6 weeks). It generally works out to about 4 doses cause Nov is usually the last dose.

So let me get this straight. You test your dogs about 45 days after mosquitos appear (it would personally make me very nervous to bet that every single mosquito in my area came around at exactly the same time)? If the test is negative then you wait an additional 45 days? First of all, why do you wait longer if the test is negative? Second, you do realize that you wont get a true heartworm test for 6 months right?? It takes 6 months after the dog is infested to actually show up on the test. So, when you test in spring you are actually sreening them for last years mosquitos, not this years. You could be getting false negatives. To quote you from above, it is really quite simple if you know the heartworm lifecycle.

To the OP, 100$ does seem extreamly steep for a straight HW test. We charge about 25$ for a straight HW test and for 50$ you get a HW test and kidney/liver values. We require yearly HW tests even if the dog is on yearly preventative. We will accept negative HW test performed by other clinics on our clients (ie. it cant be someone that walks in off the street with a neg. test). We will either fill the script ourselves or ok an online Rx (through fax). Has to be a yearly test though. It is up to the doctor if the client gets pushy and wants the preventive regardless weather they will ok the script or not.

 

[RawFedDogs]

So let me get this straight. You test your dogs about 45 days after mosquitos appear (it would personally make me very nervous to bet that every single mosquito in my area came around at exactly the same time)?

Yes, that would be silly now wouldn't it? Mosquitoes mature every day of the year after the weather warms up to above 57 degrees F for a few weeks. If you watch daily temps, you can tell about when they are going to begin appearing. THEN those adult mosquitoes must happen to bite an animal already infested with heartworms and carry around maturing eggs in their bloodstream before they can transmit the larvae to your dog. The mosquito must carry around the heartworm larvae for about 2 weeks before they can affect a dog.

If the test is negative then you wait an additional 45 days?

Yep

First of all, why do you wait longer if the test is negative?

Because of the lifecycle of the heartworm explained above plus the way the "prevenative" works. The "prevenative" only kills larvae. It kills the larvae that is in the dogs body the day the "prevenative" is administered. It doesn't hang around in the body for a month until the next one is given. When the next prevenative is administered, it kills all the larvae that have entered the body since the previous dose was given. If you give the "prevenative" no further appart than 45 days, all the larvae will die before becoming adult heartworms.

Second, you do realize that you wont get a true heartworm test for 6 months right?? It takes 6 months after the dog is infested to actually show up on the test. So, when you test in spring you are actually sreening them for last years mosquitos, not this years.

Thats not exactly true. You can get tests that test for microfilariae (heartworm larvae). It's a common test.

You could be getting false negatives. To quote you from above, it is really quite simple if you know the heartworm lifecycle.

Quite simple if you understand the test also AND understand how the "prevenative" works (explained above).

I live in rural west Georgia (the state not the country). I have a very mosquito infested 10 acre swamp on my property. I walk the dogs through the woods and by the swamp every day. Sometimes they go to the swamp just to explore their world. They chase deer through the swamp regularly. If my method didn't work, I would have already had heartworm positive dogs a long time ago.

Heartworm "prevenative" is a poison and can harm your dog over time so the less that is given the better it is for your dog. I prefer to give my dogs as little poison as possible but still be somewhat sure they won't get heartworms.

 

[Saeleofu]

 

[Saeleofu]

Thats not exactly true. You can get tests that test for microfilariae (heartworm larvae). It's a common test.

That test doesn't pick up all cases of heartworm. We do the SNAP tests and we retest each positive snap test with a microfilaria test, and very few of them are positive for microfilaria, even though the dog does have heartworms (as confirmed by a 3rd test). The microfilaria are not present until the adult female heartworms start reproducing.

 

[Laurelin]

I never knew you had to get a heartworm test to get pills. I just went up to my vet's a few weeks ago, said I was out of heartguard and they sold me a new box. That's how it's always worked. We do test all five every year though and we only buy one box at a time. Maybe we have left over tests or something.

 

[corgipower]

We do test all five every year though and we only buy one box at a time.

It's not that you have to test every time you buy more. You have to test once a year (depending on the vet), which you're doing.

 

[hirsh1]

My 10 year old greyhound gets yearly checkups which includes a heart worm test. The test cost me $36. I use HeartGuard, which my dog loves, that I get on line. The last time i bought it, I found a site in New Zealand that shipped it to me without a script.