He was doing so good...why?

[mantine]

Well Grizzley has not had an accident in the house for atleast the past month, if not longer. He hold it all day while we are at work. We keep him locked in a room while we are gone and Wednesday I didn't shut the door all the way and he got out and peed on the carpet once. Ok I can deal with that, we weren't there but last night I put him out, he did #1 and #2 and then a 1/2 hour later didn't even give me a signal that he needed to go out and just started peeing on the carpet. Why did he do that??? I was in the same room with him so I started yelling "NO, stop!" and brought him out to finish. After is seemed like he knew he did wrong because he was trying to hide behind Todd in the Kitchen and then was laying down all the way on the other side of the house where we never spend anytime and he will usually go over there to sniff around but not lay down to rest.

Why do they revert after being so good for so long? Anything I can do differently?

 

[squirtsmom]

First of all yelling at the dog when it is doing its business just confuses the dog. Dogs are not perfect, and sometimes they have accidents. He could have a bladder infection or have something else going on that you don't know aobut. If Baby hasn't been out in awhile while we are gone, she has to pee a few times just to em pty her bladder, so we take her out, and then about thirty minutes later take her out again. Hang in there, and I am sure someone will give you better advice. When the dog has an accident, just calmly pick up the dog and take it outside. No yelling or physical correction.

 

[Dekka]

Would you have yelled at child who had an accident? Its not that he knew he did wrong..Its that you upset him by yelling. Dogs don't know that going in one place is 'wrong'. Only that going, say, on grass is good.

Pups, like children, will have accidents. The less a deal you make the better.

 

[mantine]

No, I wouldn't have yelled at a child, and I guess I was just so shocked that he did it that it was just my first reaction (just so everyone knows I did not hit him for this, so yelling at him would have been the only reason he stayed away from me).

Dogs don't know that going in one place is 'wrong'. Only that going, say, on grass is good.

Good way of putting it. I just don't want him to think since he got out that one day and peed that he can start going again in the house. I guess that is the human way of thinking and not the dog way of thinking...I don't know.

Why does he hold it all day while we are gone and then the one day he is out he doesn't? I am curious. Its probably a question that doesn't have an answer.

He could have a bladder infection or have something else going on that you don't know aobut.

He goes to the vet next week to get neutered so if he keeps it up I will have the vet check him for that.

If Baby hasn't been out in awhile while we are gone, she has to pee a few times just to em pty her bladder, so we take her out, and then about thirty minutes later take her out again. Hang in there, and I am sure someone will give you better advice. When the dog has an accident, just calmly pick up the dog and take it outside. No yelling or physical correction.

Grizzley will do this after being in for a while too but he had just been out a 1/2 hour before that and we had gotten home from work about 4 hours before his accident. He usually doesn't have to go to the bathroom so close together like that, and we hadn't had a play session and he hadn't gotten excited which was why I was so shocked.

 

[Charliesmommy]

Are you periodically reinforcing the good behavior when he goes outside? Charlie has been house trained since he was an itty bitty puppy but I still periodically treat and "goooooood boooooyyyyyyyy" when he goes outside just to remind him that it is good.

 

[mantine]

Are you periodically reinforcing the good behavior when he goes outside? Charlie has been house trained since he was an itty bitty puppy but I still periodically treat and "goooooood boooooyyyyyyyy" when he goes outside just to remind him that it is good.

I would say about 90% of the time I take him out (even if we are on a walk) he gets the good boy baby talk and a pat on the butt or head for going out side.

 

[Charliesmommy]

Vet might need a urine sample to check for infection. Goodluck getting it. It's tons of fun to try to get your dog to pee in a container!

 

[TheCasa]

Did you "yell" at him to interrupt him only and get him outside to finish? If so, that's what we have done. If we see him start to squat, we'll just get his attention by "nonononono" while we go get the boy and take him outside to finish up. Then he gets lotsa praise, treats and lovin. Granted, we've only had to do this 3 times...I think. Griz may "know" that he should be doing that outside, but it may not be in his little head that grass is the only place that is acceptable. Looks like it's just going to take a little more time and extra attention that you thought you were done with.

 

[mantine]

Did you "yell" at him to interrupt him only and get him outside to finish?

Yes. And I don't expect him to be perfect yet, hes only 6 months but he's been so good at giving me signals I figured if an accident was to happen it would be while I wasn't watching, I didn't think he would just squat and pee right in from of me :lol-sign:

 

[Doberluv]

After is seemed like he knew he did wrong because he was trying to hide behind Todd in the Kitchen and then was laying down all the way on the other side of the house where we never spend anytime and he will usually go over there to sniff around but not lay down to rest.

Nope....he did not "know" he did wrong. Yelling at him caused him to fear you. It won't help with housebreaking at all. And will bring on more fall out than the good it could possibly do.

So, yes.....make outside the most fantastic place to go so that he can't wait till the next time he gets to go pee outdoors. LOL. High value treats every time right after he goes. Keep him out of the carpeted room, watch him every second. Use your crate when you can't watch. Just scurry him outside if you do catch him in the act. Don't startle or frighten him. He may be an extra sensative dog. You don't want him to get the idea that going pee is a punishable offense. He may not know that peeing inside is bad...just that peeing is bad and he'll stop going outside in your presence. He'll start hiding it inside, behind things. So, just really try to prevent indoor mistakes. Take him out more often. I second the idea of making sure he doesn't have a URI. It will come. Dogs regress sometimes in their training. Beef up the reinforcement. (high value treats each time he goes outside)

 

[TheCasa]

Yelling at him caused him to fear you.

Dober, do you think that not "yelling" but getting his attention in order to get him to stop, such as i described above, then getting him outside to finish then making him feel that outside is the most fantastic place to go is a good method? I ask for Mantine's benefit and mine as well. The couple times we've had an accident, he didn't appear fearful, scared, or otherwise when we interrupted him. It was almost like he "got" that we were redirecting him to the proper place to go.....just like we do with chewing, biting, etc.

Thanks for you experienced advice! :hail:

 

[Cattrah]

Lowla did the same thing, she had one small accident and then it was like she forgot outside was where to go and she had a few more back to back. But after some reinforcement about where to go, she "remembered" and it's all good again. It's possible that while you were away he might have gone to the door or given signals he needed to go out but since you weren't there he just went, then when nothing happened I suppose it just seemed acceptable to him. Sure he CAN hold it all day, but probably doesn't WANT to if it looks like he could go out or do it away from where he's sleeping. He's still young and getting use to the "even if no one is home I still can't go in the house" thing. Just get him back on track and he'll figure it out.

 

[Doberluv]

Yes, you can interrupt him with an "eh-eh" or whatever it takes to stop his stream...lol. HOWEVER, do the smallest thing that works. If you start out big, the dog gets habituated to that and you'll always have to be stern and loud, plus you risk fall-out caused by frightening or startling the animal too much. Use a pretty quiet, "eh-eh" and take him right outside. This way he'll learn that the quiet "eh-eh" precedes stopping the peeing and going out. He'll begin to stop when he hears that. But the very best thing of all is to prevent any accidents inside. The more accidents he has, the more he is reinforced for going inside. He really thinks that inside IS the right place to go. If the livingroom proves to be a "bad" place to go because of a scolding, then there's always the back bedroom or dining room. There are loads of possibilities for where the toilet is. So, if you prevent accidents and outside is the ONLY place to go and on top of that a very rewarding place to go, then outside it is. In other words, the list of where not to go is much longer than the list of where TO go. And that's the same thing with everything. The list of what NOT to do is longer than the list of what TO do. This is yet another reason why positive reinforcement methods make more sense to a dog.

While he's still having an occassional accident, even though he's gone outside a number of times, it doesn't mean that he is out of the guessing stage. He may have just happened to get it right a lot of times. Until he's had a VERY strong history of reinforcement for a behavior, he is still wading through all the other incidental possibilities. Dogs don't know what we're thinking or what our culture is. To them, what they're doing is NORMAL. They can't speak English or know what our value system is or what is our kind of "right and wrong." This is why harsh punishments (like we've been going round and round with in the training forum) are not right and not understood by dogs. I don't mean that you're using harsh punishments, mind you. I'm just rambling in a general sort of way. lol

 

[TheCasa]

Thanks! That's what we've been doing, although we've slacked somewhat on the rewards. Well, it's just praise and petting, but we'll step up the food treats again since we want to keep that reinforcement going. Good luck to you also Mantine...sorry to hijack your thread opcorn:

 

[mantine]

Thanks for that doberluv, that helped alot, if it happens again I will just use a quick no, and take him right out. Fortunelty for us it seems dogs prefer carpeting to the floor and the living room is the only room in the house with carpeting. I will keep a better eye on him.

And TheCasa...no need to apologize, your questions echoed mine

 

[Doberluv]

Oh yeah...carpet is great, absorbant stuff. I get a few accidents from some of my adult dogs....like when they're tummies are upset and it's the middle of the night and they either don't whine or I don't hear them. It happens occassonally even with house trained adult dogs. It's just one of those things. Next house.....no wall to wall carpet for me. LOL.

Yes, use tiny, pea sized yummy treats, not just hard biscuit things. Little hot dog tid bits or left over chicken or steak. This way, you're reinforcing the dog with something he's going to tell all his friends about. He's going to brag how wonderful you are and how lucky he is. He'll never forget after a while.....going outside equals fantastic treats. Outside is the ONLY way to fly. LOL. Hows that for some anthropomorphizing?

Seriously, dogs get pats all the time. It's all good, but you want to reinforce with something that is GREAT and something that will change behavior more dramatically. Mediocre rewards might seem good enough and they might be sometimes..... but if it doesn't change behavior and isn't something the dog values a whole lot, (extra extra) it isn't a reinforcer. Reinforcement has to modify behavior. Anyhow, he'll come along.