Haves and have nots?

Doberluv

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#1
Them that's got shall get, them that's not shall lose, so the bible said, and it still is news. Mama may have. Papa may have but God bless the child that's got his own...that's got his own. One of my favorite blues/jazz songs that Billie Holiday sang and one I like to sing if I go to a karaoke bar.

What makes some people have and some have not? What factors make people poverty stricken, poor, rich and anything in between? Why do some people succeed to own big corporations, hotel chains and the like... and have lots of money and others barely scrape by or live on the street? Money doesn't usually just fall into your lap unless it's an inheritance.

When my ex came to this country from Czechoslovakia, (first he went to Austria for five years)...he came with literally nothing but the clothes on his back. He received no government assistance whatsoever. He had received training in the machinist trade back in Czechoslovakia. He did not speak one word of English, basically but finally managed to get a job, not that high paying at that time, but decent enough. He was not familiar with anything much in America. He took a citizen ship course and passed the test to become a citizen fairly early on. He worked very hard and has always worked hard. He scrimped and saved, made some good choices with investing, (which he was certainly no expert on) once he saved up a little money and while not rich, is quite comfortable and while we were married, we were also quite comfortable. He's also been very generous and helped out people we knew who didn't have enough to eat...many times over.

We met several Czech friends, one couple with two kids who lived near us and we became good friends. These people also started out with absolutely nothing when they came to this country and also had not one iota of help from the government. (things are a lot different for Europeans than they are for some other immigrants and different policies these days) They worked very hard, were careful with their money and wound up buying a small house. Then they sold that house and built another....a little more expensive house. They did it again and again and got quite well to do. She worked at Boeing and he was also a machinist. So nothing that remarkable about their professions.

My ex always said, when people can't get out of a hole of poverty, "This is America. People don't have to be living in poverty." He can't understand it when he compares people born here to himself, who came here with no advantages, no rental history, no credit....it was tough getting credit. He did have his trade, but not even able to speak the language. I think he does realize there are exceptions....circumstances which are beyond our control that cause terrible hardship. He does and talks about the economy now, he talks about people at his part time job having a terrible time. But in general, he thinks this is, or at least was...the land of opportunity. Not a free government ride, but opportunity.

What is it that makes some people successful financially and others not? Is it all about fate or circumstances? Personality? (determination, drive, self esteem, intelligence, desire?)Or are there too many factors to even be able to say?
 

ACooper

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#2
My personal opinion? Priorities, goals and motivation. Of course this is considering you have the health in body and mind to do so.

You have to set goals, list priorities and then be motivated to reach the goals you set.

We (as in my family) are barely middle class at best. We could DEFINITELY change that status if it were a priority in our lives. It isn't. We are happy and content with our lot, LOL.

If money was our goal, I have no doubt we could achieve it even in these hard times. Family is our main goal and purpose in life, at least at the moment..........when the kids are all grown that might change ;)

If you set a goal and then don't prioritize and make sacrifices to reach that goal you will never succeed. In this country, it's that simple.

What do you want? What are you willing to do and/or give up NOW to get it? Because in reality, you can't have everything you want LATER by having everything you want NOW.......rarely will it ever work that way.
 

corgipower

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#3
Financially, I do fall into the "have not" category. But I have been very successful, and I would put myself in the "have" category. I spent 10 years professionally working with horses and 9 years with dogs -- mainly cleaning kennels and some training and bathing. Not the ideal career choices for making money, but I was good at it and enjoyed it immensely. I "have" a lot more than money could ever provide.
 

M&M's Mommy

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#4
I think in order to be successful in life, whether it is to lead a spiritually/personally/socially/financially fulfilling & stable life, a person neeeds to have the right amount of:

Attitude (Personality/People Skills, etc..)
Hardwork (no one can be successful without it!)
Knowledge (to know what you're doing, to have a plan & make improvement to your plan as you go!)
Determination (to stick to your plan, to continue on even after you fail!)
Support (from families & friends & colleagues)
and last but not least: a bit of good luck!
 

Fran101

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#5
My dad has been very successful in his filed (plastic surgeon) and what he always told me was that determination was all there was to it.
he always told me that "obstacles are those scary things you see when you take your eye off the prize."

Many factors went into why hes doing so well today. most of it is just HIM and his determination
he also did also study very hard, he got into the right schools, and he did a lot of networking..

In the end he knew his priorities.. and now hes one of the best in his field. I dunno, there is just something about him. He is the most selfdriven person I know, hes always looking to do better and seek perfection

so my answer is, Determination. Mixed in with a good attitude

He works hard every day so that me and the rest of the family don't go without. He worked his butt off to get to the point of where he is now.

"good" "ok" "average" is NEVER enough for him, he strives for perfection, for greatness. and that has helped him become as succesfull as he is. IMO

His story, and the way he is, is the same as I've noticed with most sucessful people ive met. and I think that that is very telling..
 

ACooper

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#6
"obstacles are those scary things you see when you take your eye off the prize."
Oh I like that Fransheska, I LIKE THAT A LOT!

*steals it to use on her own kids!*
 
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#7
People make choices that make them wealthy, like learning to invest and not spending more than they earn. People also make choices keeping them poor, like buying sweet cars that cost 1/2 of their months earnings. I dont envy those who have, nor do I pity those who dont.

I am somewhere in the middle I believe the earth will provide me every thing I need and it always has. I have been broke but I have never been poor. Poor sounds to me like a state that one has given up all hope. When I have wanted something more, like a bed or a roof I earned more and spent less until it was a reality. I dont agree with the hard work idea. I have been told all my young life to work hard, and so I did. Working hard has given me lots of wear and tear on my body but very little in the way of money. What little money I earned with sweat I spent with ignorance. Learn how to spend money before learning how to make it. A person with no spending discipline is headed for much more trouble with a million dollars than he would be with 10.
 

Gustav

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#8
I agree with Buck.. It's not because you're earning $4000 a month that you should be spending $4000 a month.. If you have learned to survive on very little, and you are disciplined, you will put 3/4 of that away for a rainy day.. You will have no less than you had before when you were just surviving, but you won't have any more.

It's all very well having a wardrobe full of beautiful things, but those beautiful things won't feed you when times get hard, nor will they heat or give electricity to your house..

I'm very much a squirreler with money.. I always have some tucked away, and I can't sleep peacefully at night unless I KNOW I have a little cushion somewhere.
 

GlassOnion

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#9
Motivation and the wisdom of not going 'oh woe is me'.


There's several other factors (IE willing to take [logical] risks, 'connections', etc) that can aid you along the way but those top two are about it. You may not get super-wealthy off them alone, but you won't do without.
 

Liza

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#10
I think there are too many factors to consider. Personally, I think that what we believe persists. I believe that creativity, motivation, and KNOWING that you can and will be successful play a HUGE role in your success in anything in life.
 

michaelf

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#11
I became a HAVE 5 years ago when I went to groom school and discovered what i really want to do in my life, I became a HAVE A LOT when I got my first dog as an adult 5 years ago, and last April I became a HAVE IT ALL when I got my stpoo puppy.
I don't have a ton of money but I'm really happy.:)
 

Doberluv

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#12
And that's the most important thing Michaelf. Your post is an inspiration.

I think everyone wrote good posts...lots of wisdom there. Having money isn't all there is, but it does make things easier and less stressful....at least where money matters are concerned. But it is indeed important not to let go of other values, a lot of which, do depend on some money, unfortunately. Having dogs takes some money. Living in a pleasant environment takes a certain amount of money. Enriching things like education takes some money. And I do agree that a person has to have a certain amount of ambition and drive, goals and good planning to achieve financial comfort. Or any kind of comfort, for that matter.

Great posts!
 

Boemy

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#13
So many factors. It depends on the individual situation. Hard work can make you a "have" . . . or it can not. It's cruel to imply that every poor person could better their situation if they just worked harder. Hard work certainly helps pave the way to success, but some people work hard their whole lives and never become a "have." There are also people who do nothing productive and become "haves" because they were born into it (Paris Hilton) or lucked into it (people who marry someone wealthy.) Where you live, what your skills are, the friends you make, motivation, determination, setbacks (do you have any disabilities?), the things you choose to buy, the amount you save (or can afford to save), and luck . . . they each play their roll.

There is no surefire way to become a "have." You just have to look at your own situation and deal with it as best you can.
 

drmom777

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#14
It has been my experience in life that the lower a job pays, the harder you have to work at it. People in high paying, prestigious occupations have no concept of working eight or more hours on your feet with one unpaid federally mandated half hour break.

On the whole, prestigious jobs include both hard work, and time for socializing and relaxation. Those meeting people complain about may be time consuming, but they are done sitting down. Successful people spent plenty of time talking to other successful people, making connections, etc. The unsuccessful just work.
 

~Jessie~

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#15
What is it that makes some people successful financially and others not? Is it all about fate or circumstances? Personality? (determination, drive, self esteem, intelligence, desire?)Or are there too many factors to even be able to say?

Some people "have" and others "have not" due to many, many different factors.

Of course, some people are born into money and can spend it how ever they please, obtaining plenty of "haves" without doing anything.

And some people are born into that "have not" category, and can never get themselves out. Those with major disabilities who were born into poverty will most likely stay at the bottom for their entire lives.

I believe that any person has the potential to make millions of dollars. Even if you start at the bottom in high school working at McDonalds with no intentions of attending college, you can still work your way up. You just have to show that you have strong work ethic and WANT to move up.

There is SO much help and resources out there... not to mention a TON of grants/scholarships to colleges. Even if you don't want to go to college, you can still "start at the bottom" and work your way up.

For example, Ian worked with this girl named Lalita (she was an intern at his firm). Anyway, she was a homeless teen mom who worked her butt off to get through college and ended up getting FULL scholarships to Harvard:

A formerly homeless and single teenage mother, Booth turned her life around through vigorous commitment to her studies, and a strict adherence to her "make no excuses" work ethic. In her vow to help youth who are struggling in poverty, Booth, a former welfare recipient, combined her financial acumen and her passion for public service to create Lighthouse for Dreams, a financial literacy program aimed at educating and empowering high school students.
UCF Newsroom

ETA: I can imagine that manual labor is hard work... and so is standing on your feet (I know, I worked at a grocery store as a cashier in high school and ended up getting used to standing on my feet).

However, those "prestigous" jobs are mentally exhaustive. Having to go out and network/travel/etc. MOST highly paid people in these jobs work more than 8 hours a day, anyway.

AND if you only want to work the bare minimum, don't complain about not being able to "have."
 

ACooper

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#16
What is it that makes some people successful financially and others not? Is it all about fate or circumstances? Personality? (determination, drive, self esteem, intelligence, desire?)Or are there too many factors to even be able to say?

Some people "have" and others "have not" due to many, many different factors.

Of course, some people are born into money and can spend it how ever they please, obtaining plenty of "haves" without doing anything.

And some people are born into that "have not" category, and can never get themselves out. Those with major disabilities who were born into poverty will most likely stay at the bottom for their entire lives.

I believe that any person has the potential to make millions of dollars. Even if you start at the bottom in high school working at McDonalds with no intentions of attending college, you can still work your way up. You just have to show that you have strong work ethic and WANT to move up.

For example, Ian worked with this girl named Lalita (she was an intern at his firm). Anyway, she was a homeless teen mom who worked her butt off to get through college and ended up getting FULL scholarships to Harvard:



UCF Newsroom

ETA: I can imagine that manual labor is hard work... and so is standing on your feet (I know, I worked at a grocery store as a cashier in high school and ended up getting used to standing on my feet).

However, those "prestigous" jobs are mentally exhaustive. Having to go out and network/travel/etc. MOST highly paid people in these jobs work more than 8 hours a day, anyway.
That is an AWESOME and inspiring story Jessie.

And I agree, those "prestigious" jobs are a different type of hard work. Not to mention most of them have "worked hard" to get where they are, why shouldn't they be able to enjoy the fruits of their labor?

I would like to make it clear that when I say "hard work" I don't necessarily mean "shovel FASTER" to improve your situation if you happen to dig ditches for a living.

The type of hard work I am meaning is working a job while still looking for a way to better your situation whether that be continued schooling (not easy for a person with children, home and job/s), seeking out a better job, or perhaps even a SECOND job...........whatever it takes. It involves sacrifice and motivation but it CAN be done.

When I first had my oldest son, I was a single mother. I worked TWO jobs for quite some time. I probably could have signed up on all the programs, worked one job and settle into that lifestyle but I didn't, just not who I am. I sacrificed time with my child which I will never get back. And even the time I DID have with him most days, I was so tired all I wanted to do was lay on the couch and rest. I did what I had to do to improve my situation, I "worked hard" until I could make improvements.
 

Gustav

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#17
I don't think being a "have" means that you have to be rolling in pots of money.. Being a millionaire (although it would be nice admittedly) would not give me any more than I "have" right now..

I have my health, I have clothes on my back, I have food in the fridge, I have people who love me and good friends, I have my animals, I have misty mornings and crunchy leaves.. Not even 30 million could buy me those things.. I "have" already.. ;)
 

Lilavati

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#18
Speaking as someone most would consider a "have" (I'm an attorney at a high-powered, high paying law firm), I'd have to say luck pays a big role. Not just luck in the day to day sense (though I was lucky to end up here for several reasons) but also the luck to be born and grow up in the right place. It makes things much easier. My family is not wealthy, but they are well off. I'm a fourth generation lawyer, and the whole family is highly educated. All of those are huge advantages if you want to excel in school, go to top universities, etc. Its a huge head start.

I have had some very serious problems in my life, but I always had the resources to pull through in one piece, because I have a loving family and one that had the resources to make sure I got the help I needed. With the same problems, under different circumstances, I would not only not be a lawyer, I might well be dead.

That doesn't mean that people can't do it who don't have the advantages that I have had, but it makes it a heck of a lot easier.

There are other factors. Hard work, no doubt. Talent, at least in certain fields, no question (I wanted to be a physcist for a while until I realized that I was smart enough to do it, but lacked talent . . . I'd be adequate, but never great). But good fortune plays a big role. To an extent you make your own luck, but some people just get dealt better cards.

I'm afraid that's not wildly inspirational :(.

As for not knowing about working 8 plus hours on my feet . . . I've done that. In some ways that is harder. It certainly pays less. On the other hand, the hours I work in this job can be incredibly long, and require often constant concentration. I, at least, don't do much socializing. And I'm pretty much on call 24 hours a day, 365 days a year if a client needs something right away. I am a slave to a blackberry. I have no patience with the well-off who think that the poor are lazy . . . many of them work very, very hard. But it is also not true that lawyers and businessmen have it easy. Its different kinds of work, with different challanges. When I worked hourly jobs, when I wasn't at work, I wasn't at work. This job . . . not so much.
 

M&M's Mommy

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#19
I don't think being a "have" means that you have to be rolling in pots of money.. Being a millionaire (although it would be nice admittedly) would not give me any more than I "have" right now..
So true. After all,

Money can buy a house but not a home.
-a bed but not sleep.
-a clock but not time.
-a book but not knowledge.
-an education, but not wisdom.
-food but not appetite.
-finery but not beauty
-position but not respect.
-blood but not life.
-medicine but not health.
-sex but not love.
-insurance but not safety.
-luxuries but not happiness
-Religion, but not salvation;
-A passport to everywhere but Heaven!.
 

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