Hard and Soft: What do they mean to you?

[Linds]

I think we've had a thread like this before but I thought it could be interesting to have it again, inspired by the Breeds similar to ACDs thread.

So, when you use the word "hard" or "soft to describe a dog or a breed, what do you mean exactly? Examples?

Do you differentiate between soft and hard in relation to training, to the handler, environment, other dogs etc.?

What are some examples of a dog/breed acting "hard" or "soft" would you give to describe what you mean when you say a dog/breed is hard or soft?

And lastly, how would you describe your dogs?

 

[stardogs]

Hard for me = headstrong, handler insensitive, physically insensitive to pain when in drive.

Soft = biddable, handler sensitive, aware of discomfort and seeks to avoid it, likely to quit when things are challenging.

I do think that the relative hard vs softness of a dog can vary depending on drive state, environment, and handler, but usually I use it as a general descriptor.

Ziva is generally moderately soft. Kestrel is moderately hard. Aeri is hard. Snipe is pretty similar to Kes, maybe a bit softer, but harder than Z.

 

[meepitsmeagan]

Hard for me = headstrong, handler insensitive, physically insensitive to pain when in drive.

Soft = biddable, handler sensitive, aware of discomfort and seeks to avoid it, likely to quit when things are challenging.

I do think that the relative hard vs softness of a dog can vary depending on drive state, environment, and handler, but usually I use it as a general descriptor.

This ^ is perfect.

Harlow is moderate. Rider is super soft. Tulsa is hard when in drive, but moderate in everyday life.

 

[Laurelin]

I was thinking about this with Hank a few days ago. He's made me rethink the hard and soft thing. He's very very bitey and not real good about toning that down. He will play and play ROUGH. Run everyone over. If he gets run over he's up to go again or will start biting and snapping at the offending dog. Basically in most aspects of conflict he tends to bring fire to fire. He does not back down. Conflict tends to rile him up. When he's going all out at something, pain doesn't seem to slow him down.

Except with me then he's really quite sensitive. It's very strange. I think he'd be broken if I used a very harsh technique with him. Even a scold has just sort of broken his heart. Generally I think of dogs as just being 'hard' or 'soft' but he seems to be hard in some instances and soft in others.

Mia is the opposite. I could yell at her all day long and she wouldn't care. But she's super sensitive to pain and generally avoids conflict.

Summer is just soft in every way.

 

[sassafras]

It's hard for me to explain... I tend to think of a hard dog as one who is pretty resilient and who isn't too affected by external negative factors. Like, not environmentally sensitive, doesn't shut down easily due to mistakes or corrections, bounces back from bad experiences. Stuff like that. And soft would be the opposite.

So, Pip and Maisy are soft dogs to me. You can break their feelings into a million pieces with a frustrated tone or raised voice, and it can be hard to get them back. They can sometimes be easily spooked by new things or scary experiences.

Squash is a hard dog to me. He doesn't give a crap about hardly anything, he just goes through the world doing his thing largely unaffected by negative experiences. He's mentally resilient and has great bounce-back.

 

[Southpaw]

Hard for me = headstrong, handler insensitive, physically insensitive to pain when in drive.

Soft = biddable, handler sensitive, aware of discomfort and seeks to avoid it, likely to quit when things are challenging.

I think I'd agree with this.

I was thinking about this the other day actually. Juno is on the softer side and tends to give up if things are too difficult or if she senses my frustration. She can do something 100 times, and if something goes wrong the 101st time, that's it. She's done and is going to take some work to get her back into it.
It works in some ways because she's very responsive to light corrections, she responds appropriately - quits the dumb behavior but doesn't shut down or get traumatized. But then sometimes it's like ugh stop being a baby

Cajun I can't entirely figure out lol. She tolerates a higher level of correction than Juno. I could yell at this one all day long and she's just like derrpppp gonna continue doing what I'm doing. Most challenges she'll take head on and she'll keep trying despite mistakes. She can fall off the a-frame in agility 15 times and she's right back up there after each fall. But she has days where she is SO sensitive and shuts down at the drop of a hat.

Happy is the softest dog on the planet, I don't know how much of her is just due to previous upbringing but omg I think I would go crazy if she were a younger dog that I was working with. She is sensitive to EVERYTHING.

Lucy I have no clue to be honest lol she's probably pretty soft too.

 

[TexasRanger]

A hard dog to me is one who isn't upset by minor things and has a "my way or the highway" attitude.

A soft dog is one that is easily frightened (not out right cowering, but not happy) and just lives to please you.

 

[Raegan]

I usually think of hard dogs as being physically and mentally resilient. They can "take a correction." They can take it as information, not personally.

Soft dogs get their feelings hurt easily, basically.

Marsh is a squishy little Marshmallow. I don't have a good read on Pilot yet. He's certainly harder than Marsh, but I don't know that I would call him "hard." Which is fine, I tend to prefer dogs that are a little soft.

 

[Fran101]

hehehehehehe

Lol but honestly, all I know is that soft dogs get their feelings hurt easily.

I think Merlin is a soft dog. We keep training a game and as long as things are semi-positive, he's ON. He is ready to try again even with corrections...but correct him too harshly or start making the session negative/get frustrated and he stops learning. His body keeps going but you can tell he's like "ooookkkk....just don't get mad......like this???? oh god..."

 

[Snark]

I tend to think of a hard dog as one who is pretty resilient and who isn't too affected by external negative factors. Like, not environmentally sensitive, doesn't shut down easily due to mistakes or corrections, bounces back from bad experiences. Stuff like that. And soft would be the opposite.

This. I think all of my dogs are soft although Mick is so food-driven, he sometimes doesn't register any kind of correction. With other dogs, he's got an extremely short fuse but he needs Murphy for serious back up (he really is 'all bark and no bite' without his brother).
Murphy is soft (the vet has called him a 'drama queen'), he bounces back from corrections as long as they're mild (a verbal correction is enough for him) but he is always trying to please and his feelings are easily hurt. With other dogs, he's fairly mild-mannered when introduced properly but has no qualms about going after dogs who bother him.
Riley is an opportunist with other dogs, if he thinks he can bully them, he will. He will snap at dogs who get in his face. Handling-wise, he is very soft and will shut down if I make a mistake or if he thinks he's made a mistake. Any hesitation on my part when running a course, or even just saying 'darn' under my breath, and he's done.

 

[Elrohwen]

I typically only use it in a relative sense for how a dog relates to his handler. I don't use it for things like tolerance to physical pain, how persistent the dog is, etc.

To me, a soft dog is one who cares what his handler things, and wilts when corrected. This is the dog who just requires "the look" to stop doing whatever naughty thing they're doing, and generally doesn't want to do things that displease his handler (conversely, this dog probably does want to make his handler happy)

A hard dog is one who doesn't care about corrections, and isn't sensitive to his handler's moods or anger.

Watson is moderately hard according to my definition. A stern voice and even outright yelling doesn't phase him at all. He can take fairly hard physical corrections without blinking.

On the other hand, he can give up if something makes him nervous, or if he's lacking confidence in what we're doing, and he can be a wuss about physical pain, but I consider that something different. He's fairly resilient, but if the thing shutting him down keeps happening he's just done. I guess he's handler hard, but when it comes to external factors he's more moderate.

 

[Sekah]

Hard for me = headstrong, handler insensitive, physically insensitive to pain when in drive.

Soft = biddable, handler sensitive, aware of discomfort and seeks to avoid it, likely to quit when things are challenging.

I agree with these. But I've also always thought of Cohen as relatively hard. Though I think a more appropriate term would be resilient. She's very focused and biddable, rarely quits and bounces back from startles and stress with ease.

Megatron is Softie McSofterson. It's been very frustrating to deal with. She's easy enough to scold if she's doing something she shouldn't be, but her fear and anxiety lingers long afterwards.

 

[Slick]

I typically only use it in a relative sense for how a dog relates to his handler. I don't use it for things like tolerance to physical pain, how persistent the dog is, etc.

To me, a soft dog is one who cares what his handler things, and wilts when corrected. This is the dog who just requires "the look" to stop doing whatever naughty thing they're doing, and generally doesn't want to do things that displease his handler (conversely, this dog probably does want to make his handler happy)

A hard dog is one who doesn't care about corrections, and isn't sensitive to his handler's moods or anger.

Watson is moderately hard according to my definition. A stern voice and even outright yelling doesn't phase him at all. He can take fairly hard physical corrections without blinking.

On the other hand, he can give up if something makes him nervous, or if he's lacking confidence in what we're doing, and he can be a wuss about physical pain, but I consider that something different. He's fairly resilient, but if the thing shutting him down keeps happening he's just done. I guess he's handler hard, but when it comes to external factors he's more moderate.

I agree with this. I also tend to look more at the reaction to correction as opposed to pain.

Interestingly, I think for Leo whether he is soft/hard changes by the person/handler. He is moderately soft for me. He doesn't give up easily during training and doesn't really react strongly to yelling (but then again, I really don't yell), but he will submissively roll over very easily if I look at him wrong and he thinks he messed up. When I was training a recall and he didn't come right away, I would walk him down. He was extremely easy to walk down because as soon as he saw that I kinda annoyed, he would cower and stay at one spot (even though I never used any negative reinforcement, besides the fact that I would collect him).

Now, with my housemate, who is as involved with him as any family member, he could not care less what she thinks. I would describe him as hard for her and anybody else that is not me. He will brazenly do things he is not supposed to with her and doesn't care at all if she yells/looks mad. It's funny because he will beg outrageously for her when she eats and does not ever do this for me, even though she has never given him food and I occasionally do.

 

[RBark]

I used to define hard and soft based on how sensitive a dog is.

After having Syl, I now define it by category. Syl is physically hard as nails, she takes a hit and doesn't notice and keeps coming back for more. She is not sensitive in any way whatsoever to pain or being physically manipulated. So I have to keep an extra eye on her.

Mentally I would say she is more on the soft end of the spectrum. She is environmentally aware, and no matter how physically overcharged she is she will still respond to me (i recalled her off herding sheep several times with just a light word spoken). She is attentive to the people and animals and objects around her even when she is in a wild mood.

I am sure my definition will change. Kobe is the opposite, he is dense as a rock on the head and soft as a Kobe on the outside.

 

[GoingNowhere]

To me, a soft dog is one who cares what his handler things, and wilts when corrected.

A hard dog is one who doesn't care about corrections, and isn't sensitive to his handler's moods or anger.

I agree with this. I also think that it has to do with resiliency and ability to move-on from a reprimand. Not necessarily that the dog doesn't register the reprimand, just that they don't let it get to them. I've heard a few others mention biddability, but when I consider "hard" versus "soft," I don't take biddability into account. I've seen plenty of labrador retrievers who are extremely biddable dogs that are also very hard in temperament. They want to please, they're just a bit obtuse to emotional concerns... that or they just don't care. You can shout, yell, etc. and the dog just stands there smiling, seemingly thinking "Cool, so tell me what's next to do!"

Boo is moderate. She used to be a bit softer, but as she's gotten more accustomed to the family, she doesn't wilt the way that she used to at a reprimand. When we first adopted her, a raised voice would have her upside down in a submissive posture in an instant. Now she doesn't do that. But she is much more willing to work when everything is positive.

 

[DJEtzel]

Hard for me = headstrong, handler insensitive, physically insensitive to pain when in drive.

Soft = biddable, handler sensitive, aware of discomfort and seeks to avoid it, likely to quit when things are challenging.

I do think that the relative hard vs softness of a dog can vary depending on drive state, environment, and handler, but usually I use it as a general descriptor.

Ziva is generally moderately soft. Kestrel is moderately hard. Aeri is hard. Snipe is pretty similar to Kes, maybe a bit softer, but harder than Z.

This is better than I could have said it.

Recon is very pressure sensitive, but not as much when in high drive. Noise sensitive, very sensitive to corrections (verbal or physical) all the time. He's a pretty soft dog, but there have been softer and he's not difficult to train/work with. He recovers quickly.

Patton..... is very hard. I could probably beat him with a two by four and he'd come back for more. Thankfully, he is handler focused and biddable, so when I am disappointed it does effect him *some*, but I would have to use a pretty heavy correction on him to get through if I wanted to. If I could at all when he's in drive...

 

[Raegan]

I consider hard/soft a different metric than sensitivity. Sensitivity is like a radio dial - how much do you have to turn the dial to move the needle? A sensitive dial takes a really light touch to move the needle really far, an insensitive dial takes a really strong turn to move the needle a little bit.

A sensitive dog notices subtler stimuli - a truck backfiring four blocks away, the twitch of your shoulder as you start to reach for your treat pouch, a stern look. An insensitive dog takes stronger stimuli before they react - the backfiring truck has to be directly behind them, it takes a corrective collar before they notice a correction.

Of course, you can sensitize and desensitize a dog to a particular stimulus, but generally without training they'll fall somewhere on a spectrum. And that spot can be different for different classes - sound sensitive but not pressure sensitive, etc - but generally.

So a sensitive but hard dog will react to a scowl, but doesn't lose motivation over it, and an insensitive but soft dog you have to hit with a 2x4 before they notice, and then their feelings are hurt.

 

[BostonBanker]

I really only ever think of soft/hard from a training standpoint, not so much from a pain standpoint or anything. For me, a soft dog is one whose behavior and mood change based on the handler's behavior and mood. A hard dog is indifferent (or relatively so) to the same things.

Meg is a very traditionally soft dog. She gets worried and shut down if you are doubtful, or harsh, or unfair, or slow to reward. She shows her softness in what I consider a traditional manner - although she's gotten better about not cowering, peeing, and crawling out of the ring when she feels upset.

Gusto is a soft dog as well, although not as extreme as Meg and he shows it differently. He just disconnects and leaves the situation. It took me a long time to realize that he was reacting to me and the training, rather than just being a jerk and doing his own thing.

 

[yv0nne]

Penn& Gusto are twins~! Penn also opts out of any situation she cannot mentally process. She is definitely soft but not insanely ..just enough to make things interesting.

In terms of physical pain, I think she would keep going even if a leg fell off.

 

[Dekka]

Dekka is hard as they come, which is strange as her sire, Kaiden, is very soft.

I don't think biddability comes into, I have met soft non biddable dogs and vice versa.

I consider Dekka hard as she doesn't shut down. Doesn't matter what goes on she is ready to work. I have yelled at her and generally she just 'grins' back. Pain doesn't phase her (being bit or kicked by a horse isn't much of a deterrent) If I give her conflicting or hard to understand cues whilst running agility she keeps going and 'swears' ie barks at me.

Kaiden is soft. He wilts if he thinks you are upset at him. He shuts down easily. Its due to him I started training positively. Any sort of correction back fired with him.