Guardians vs Herders
- Thread starter Ivy
- Start date
Some breeds historically did a little bit of both. Aussies, English Shepherds, and actually shelties too among others did both. But it does depend a lot on herding/tending style. Maremmas are not going to herd. Nor are pyrs... both those breeds are solely stock guardians. Border collies are also much more specialized than the previously mentioned herding breeds. As a result the Aussie tends to be more of a guardian type dog compared to the border collie. However the border collie is arguably the best breed at actual stock moving.
But yeah there were some all around breeds. Shelties are pretty much obsolete these days as far as real work goes but in their homeland the original shelties were an all around farm dog in charge of moving the flock and protecting the flock (part of why they have such an infamously loud voice). Aussies were the same. I have noticed it tends to be the looser eyed herders that were more the jack of all trades types (master of none does apply though imo).
But yeah there were some all around breeds. Shelties are pretty much obsolete these days as far as real work goes but in their homeland the original shelties were an all around farm dog in charge of moving the flock and protecting the flock (part of why they have such an infamously loud voice). Aussies were the same. I have noticed it tends to be the looser eyed herders that were more the jack of all trades types (master of none does apply though imo).
Yes I am sure of his mix. He was actually my hubbys dog (before I came in the picture) but now he is both of ours. He is well over 100lbs (approx. 130 lbs). He saw both parents when he went to pick him up (unless the people lied and just showed him 2 random dogs and claimed those were the parents)
Here are some pictures (not the greatest) but you can see the size of his head beside mine. He's a big boy.
Here are some pictures (not the greatest) but you can see the size of his head beside mine. He's a big boy.
Active isn't even the word to describe him.....more like obnoxiously playfull/friendly. Way too big of a dog to be so over the top with energy.
Don't get me wrong I love Lincoln to bits, but he needs some work....which I am more than willing to do if only I knew how to properly address his high energy level. That's why i'm here.
Here's the link to my original thread.
http://www.chazhound.com/forums/t120543/
Somebody mentioned that it's that he is herding my dog. So I just needed to clear up the subject if a guardian breed is also a herder.
Don't get me wrong I love Lincoln to bits, but he needs some work....which I am more than willing to do if only I knew how to properly address his high energy level. That's why i'm here.
Here's the link to my original thread.
http://www.chazhound.com/forums/t120543/
Somebody mentioned that it's that he is herding my dog. So I just needed to clear up the subject if a guardian breed is also a herder.
As far as I know neither of those breeds were ever using to herd, I could be wrong though. I think Lizzy probably thought Lincoln (based on your siggie pic) was a herding bred and was just saying that herding breeds tend to become very focused on what they are chasing. Chances are he is not actually herding just playing but being very rude and forceful about it. He looks a lot like a Pyr in those pics, he's beautiful!
BMDs are definitely a herding as well as guardian breed, though they are ineligible in the AKC for herding titles. I've also met some very energetic BMDs so it's possibly to have that trait from that side. I've yet to meet a hyper Pyr though they probably exist 
. If you are looking for an outlet for the dogs energy get him hooked up to a cart! It's a great physical and mental outlet and at least the BMD side should looooove it!
In more general terms a guardian can definitely also be a herding breed. My Greater Swiss is a guardian breed but she also herds and it is instinctive within the breed to do so. Swissys are in the working group but are also eligible for AKC herding titles, so they are definitely recognized as guardians/herders. They are meant to be a jack-of-all-trades, guardian, drover, and herder, basically whatever it was that the farmer needed they could do.
. If you are looking for an outlet for the dogs energy get him hooked up to a cart! It's a great physical and mental outlet and at least the BMD side should looooove it!In more general terms a guardian can definitely also be a herding breed. My Greater Swiss is a guardian breed but she also herds and it is instinctive within the breed to do so. Swissys are in the working group but are also eligible for AKC herding titles, so they are definitely recognized as guardians/herders. They are meant to be a jack-of-all-trades, guardian, drover, and herder, basically whatever it was that the farmer needed they could do.
Some breeds do go both ways, particularly the older breeds. Filas are definitely both. I think perhaps it might help you to stand back and assess which problem areas seem to be stemming from which drives, knowing you have both kinds of drive. It can be hard to sort out at times!
Sometimes what works best -- assuming it's not a behavior that stems from a drive so strong it's almost a compulsion -- is to (don't laugh) have a nose to snout with your dog and lay it out there. Sometimes you have to do it more than once, but it does work
Sometimes what works best -- assuming it's not a behavior that stems from a drive so strong it's almost a compulsion -- is to (don't laugh) have a nose to snout with your dog and lay it out there. Sometimes you have to do it more than once, but it does work
I've met several very goofy, very active BMDs.
And yes, I thought he was an aussie or BC mix from the pic in your sig.
But even if he's not a "herder," that doesn't mean he can't "herd" other dogs. Herding is a dog instinct; breeds in the herding group usually do it better than dogs in other groups, but that doesn't mean that other dogs don't do it at all. Luna - a 7-lb chihuahua - herds me when she's very excited: she runs around me, making kind of a teardrop shape, around the back of me very close to my heels and then out in front of me in the direction that we're walking, and then back around my heels again. Do I think she can go out and move a herd of sheep? No, of course not. But might she try "herding" another dog? It's definately possible.
It's like saying that only retrievers can retrieve. One of the best "fetch players" I know is my friend's chihuahua. She didn't have to teach him anything, but he'll catch and bring back a ball for so long that her arm gets tired before he does. Another friend's pomeranian is a better fetcher than most of the labs I know, and she also never had to be taught.
And yes, I thought he was an aussie or BC mix from the pic in your sig.
But even if he's not a "herder," that doesn't mean he can't "herd" other dogs. Herding is a dog instinct; breeds in the herding group usually do it better than dogs in other groups, but that doesn't mean that other dogs don't do it at all. Luna - a 7-lb chihuahua - herds me when she's very excited: she runs around me, making kind of a teardrop shape, around the back of me very close to my heels and then out in front of me in the direction that we're walking, and then back around my heels again. Do I think she can go out and move a herd of sheep? No, of course not. But might she try "herding" another dog? It's definately possible.
It's like saying that only retrievers can retrieve. One of the best "fetch players" I know is my friend's chihuahua. She didn't have to teach him anything, but he'll catch and bring back a ball for so long that her arm gets tired before he does. Another friend's pomeranian is a better fetcher than most of the labs I know, and she also never had to be taught.
This thread isn't to stir up anything for 'whoever' it is your refering to. I'm trying to figure out what to do in regards to a dog that is irritating the hell out of another. Someone mentioned that Lincoln is 'herding' Tynan, that's why I started this thread.
No, no, nothing wrong with this thread.