GSD puppy. When will she stop biting?

Debi

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#42
OH Vince...is she tooooo adorable, or what?! that 'innocent' little face. and, don't you LOVE those crazy ears?? LOL those little eyes look older than her age, no wonder she is a little devil! I could never resist that face!!! :)
 

Lexus

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#44
You'll get through it with her, she's got it stuck in her head that the pup is scary and just needs to work through it. Best wishes and good luck, keep us updated okay! Before you know, the two of them (pup and daughter) will be inseparable, and probably getting into trouble TOGETHER!
 
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#45
Vince,
I agree with everyone who has said you need to get your daughter involved... Have you tried having your daughter feed him?
If you can teach him to sit and wait for his dinner and then have her put his bowl down and release him, she may start to realize that she has some control over him. Of course you would be the controlling force but I don't think it would hurt to try.... He is absolutely adorable! Keep us updated :)
 

VinceG

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#46
Will do. BTW sasha is a She. Laura even got to have a big influence on the name.

She wanted to call the dog Gnasher (after the comic character "dennis the menace's" dog) but we thought that Gnasher was not appropriate for a female dog so we went for Sasha instead.

I hope you are right and that Sasha and Laura become inseperable..... that would be nirvana!
 
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yuckaduck

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#47
I am so glad to hear that Manchesters idea worked well, it is what I used and it was great. I am now using it with Flurry my new addition at 6 weeks old and it is a miracle cure.

SHe is so knowledgeable and it really bugs her when people try to make her sound like a big mouth or like someone who knows nothing. SHe is a wealth of knowledge and will be sorrowly missed here by quite a few people; myself included. I also noticed when she posted her advice people jumped at it and no do not do that, but when it worked no one commented on the actually advice. For those of us who wanted to learn more it is a shame that she has again been banned. I can only say thank goodness I have her email and am able to keep in touch with my dear friend, someone who I fell honoured to call a friend. Carol aka Manchesters is a wealth of knowledge and if you happen to read this please keep in touch with me because I treasure your knowledge. Anyoen wanting to get in touch with Manchesters, send me by PM your email and I will send it to her. If she wants to talk to you she will get back to you.
 
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#48
Yuck,
I'm not sure if your last statement was directed at me or not, just in case it was I think I should respond. If it wasn't, just ignore this. I don't think that anyone "jumped" on Manchesters, at least not in this thread. Since when is it wrong to have a difference of opinion? Since when is it wrong to voice a difference in opinion? I certainly wasn't offended by anything she wrote to me and honestly don't think she is thin skinned enough to have been offended by anything I wrote. But if she was banned, I have all the faith in the world it was because of her actions, actions that she is in control of, not because someone disagreed with her advice or didn't sing it's praises. I have no doubt that the method she described and the one that you employ works. I already stated that. However, I do not think it is the only way to stop the unwanted behavior. Your method works for you, you know that because you've used it and have seen the result. The advice I gave was based on what I have done and what I know works. We all give advice based on what we know works for us. The reader then has to opportunity to sort through the suggestions and decide for themselves which is best for them and their particular situation.
just my 2 cents....
 

Saje

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#49
Manchesters was suspended but because of her actions on another thread as far as I know. You are always very rational chithedobe and you are right. It was because of her actions.
 
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yuckaduck

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#50
I think you will find that loads of people yank Manchesters chain.

Chitdobe it was not directed at anyone in particular. I just found it interesting how a few people claimed that her method was too aggressive and would scare the poor little pup, then when it actually worked for the OP there was no hey great her way worked, it was just forgotten. I have no doubts there are other ways. I can guarantee if I used that way with Hope I would be covered in pee from submissive peeing. So I use another way, positive reinforcement and re directing. Works great for Hope not for Yukon. Every dog is different and there are differences in how to train them. I find the strong lined working dogs do not respond well to positive reinforcement, they actually take advantage and walk all over you. Yet a more submissive or shy dog would benifit greatly from positive reinforcement. Many different ways, for many different dogs.
 
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#52
yuckaduck said:
I find the strong lined working dogs do not respond well to positive reinforcement, they actually take advantage and walk all over you. Yet a more submissive or shy dog would benifit greatly from positive reinforcement. Many different ways, for many different dogs.

See that's what I'm talking about ;-) You have found that PR training does not work well with "strong lined working dogs". I have found the exact opposite. Chi is very intense and prey driven. When we first started having "aggressive" issues, I sought advice from several trainers. Two trainers urged me to use very traditional training methods and to aggressively "correct" her reactions. That backfired in the worst way. Correcting her aggressive reactions only agitated her more and produced even more violent reactions. Realizing this was NOT working I went back to the basics I knew from previous pets and turned to the internet for more advice on positive training methods. Since I've changed training methods I have been able to successfully desensitize Chi to approaching strangers and she has reacted aggressively only once in the past several weeks. (that one reaction was somewhat warranted as the jogger literally pushed us off the side walk and she did not react a bit until he made physical contact with me)
You know what works for you and will advise as such. I know what is working for me and will advice as such. Who is to say that you are right or wrong or that I am right or wrong? We both are "right" if we are both achieving the desired results in a humane way, right?

chazhound said:
That may not work for every dobe.

Chazhound
It certainly didn't work on mine :)
 
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rottnpagan

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#53
Throwing my $0.02 into the ring... crossposting my reply from the other thread. :D

The only thing that two trainers can agree on, is that the third trainer is doing it wrong.

Remember that. :p

Puppies are puppies, and he's testing you to see how far he can get. You need to teach him bite inhibition. The easiest (IMO) way is to calmly say 'Too bad!' in a low voice, tuck your hands under your arms, and turn away, breaking all eye contact and communication. Ignore puppy until he settles down, and then you can go back to him. If he doesn't listen, take it a step further and leave the room, making sure of course, that puppy is safe. When puppy stops nipping, you can re-engage him.

It's far easier and better to stop this NOW than to let it continue and try to stop it in a fully grown dog. NEVER let a pup do what you don't want an adult dog to do.

Best of luck!
 

VinceG

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#54
Just thought I'd add.... it's still not right. Mabye it just needs time but my daughter is making such a play of it that I really don't know where to turn next.

She tried to bite her clothes again tonight and of course my daughter flung her arms up in the air shouting "she's biting me she's biting me, get her off me" then tears.

Carol my wife has gone for a long walk with Laura (daughter) but the dog DID try to bite her.

Nothing's really changed. I can't believe I'm writing this and it greives me to say this but I think the dog will have to go ultimately. I am so sad I just want to cry.
 

rottnpagan

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#56
VinceG said:
Just thought I'd add.... it's still not right. Mabye it just needs time but my daughter is making such a play of it that I really don't know where to turn next.

She tried to bite her clothes again tonight and of course my daughter flung her arms up in the air shouting "she's biting me she's biting me, get her off me" then tears.

Carol my wife has gone for a long walk with Laura (daughter) but the dog DID try to bite her.

Nothing's really changed. I can't believe I'm writing this and it greives me to say this but I think the dog will have to go ultimately. I am so sad I just want to cry.
I had this same problem with my male rottweiler. Is the dog getting wound up and then reaching out to bite? Remember, dogs don't have hands, and they use their mouths.

Try separating the dog from all excitement when (preferably before) she starts to wind up. Put her in her crate, or in a bathroom. Once she settles down, bring her back out, and have everyone, INCLUDING your daughter ignore the dog.

You can also try putting the dog on a leash when she starts to get too wound up. Put the leash on and then you sit down, holding the end of it. Ignore the dog, just hold the lead still. The dog will eventually sit down and then lay down.

Please ALWAYS supervise your dog and your children. (I'm sure you are, but it's worth noting!) Don't leave them unattended, even to go into the next room. It's not worth it.
 
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#57
Why Your Puppy Nips - And 5 Ways To Get Him To Stop

Here’s a news flash – puppies nip!

Okay, I guess you already knew that. But here’s the surprise –
you may actually be encouraging your puppy to nip. Let’s talk
about how to stop this behavior before it grows up to be an
adult-sized dog problem.

Puppies are a lot like babies – they use their mouths in part to
explore their world. Little kids are forever sticking things in
their mouth – from your favorite house plant to the bar of soap
in the tub. That’s one of the ways they experience taste and
texture, and figure out what’s good and what’s not. It’s all
about experimentation.

Puppies are the same. They want to see just how soft your finger
is, or what that leash tastes like. In addition, biting or
nipping is an important part of learning social skills in their
“wolf” pack – the social structure that makes up your dog’s life.

And with some breeds, such as Border Collies, biting or nipping
is even more instinctive because of the nature of the breed –
they’re born and bred to herd livestock, and that’s how a 50 or
60 pound dog will control a 1,000 pound cow – by biting at the
heels or nose.

If your dog was allowed to remain with mom and his littermates
for an appropriate amount of time (until at least 8 weeks of
age), then mom should have taught him the beginnings of bite
inhibition. As the pups began to grow and develop those
needle-sharp little puppy teeth, mom would have disciplined him
for being too rough, either with her or his littermates. Junior
soon learns that all play will stop and he’ll get smacked down by
mom if he gets carried away.

But when you get that puppy home, and he becomes part of the
family, you may be encouraging him to nip by letting the kids run
away from him, squealing and giggling in an effort to play
“chase” games. While this is cute at the beginning, it can soon
turn into a full-fledged problem when he’s no longer such a
small, cute puppy, and views any child running away as fair game.
You can also encourage this kind of bad behavior by teasing him
with toys – holding them just above his head and yanking them out
of range when he jumps for the toy or nips at it. (This also
encourages another bad habit: jumping.)

Here’s 5 things you can do to stop your puppy from nipping.

1. When your puppy does nip – stop all play

If your puppy nips too hard, say “Ouch!” in a loud-enough voice
to surprise him (don’t start off by screaming!) and stop all
play. Turn your back on him, and refuse to continue the game. He
should come around to face you and find out what’s wrong – tell
him “bad dog – no bite” in a firm tone of voice. Do this every
time he nips until he gets the idea that nipping means no more
fun.

2. Replace your flesh with a toy

When you’ve resumed play, and if your puppy tries to nip again,
try replacing your hand or arm (or whatever’s being nipped) with
a toy. Teach your puppy that you’re not the toy. Put a toy in
between you and those needle-sharp teeth!

3. The Nose Tap

If your puppy nips turn to him immediately and give him the “sit”
command. Take your forefinger and hold it up in front of his
nose, then tap him on the nose and say “no bite” in a stern tone
of voice. It’s important to note two things here: 1) the nose tap
isn’t designed as a dire punishment – you’re not trying to hurt
him, but rather startle him into stopping the behaviour; and 2)
your tone of voice is just as important as the nose tap. Don’t
scream at him – your voice should be stern and give a clear
warning – think of it as a verbal growl – something that he can
understand as a dog.

An interesting result of this manner of breaking this habit is
that down the road, when your puppy has learned to recognize the
raised finger – he’ll usually stop whatever behavior he’s
engaging in just because he knows what’s coming. You won’t even
have to raise your voice – just lift that finger.

4. Don’t encourage biting or nipping in the first place
Don’t let the kids start “chase” games – that encourages dogs to
think that the kids are prey. Don’t play games that involve
waving your hands in front of your dog and encouraging him to
jump or nip.

Don’t play tug-of-war with your dog – it will not only encourage
him to think he’s your equal, it can promote nipping if you use a
rope toy, for example, because he’ll try to bite at your hands to
make you lose your grip on the toy.
Play games of fetch and retrieval, but be sure that your dog
knows the “drop” or “release” command so you’re not fighting over
the toy.

5. Be consistent

Stop the nipping behavior as soon as it starts, and be
consistent about disciplining your puppy for it. Don’t let him
get away with nipping on one day, and then discipline for the
same behavior the next. Dogs don’t understand “sometimes it’s
ok,” or “maybe it’s ok it you don’t nip too hard and I’m in a
good mood.“ They understand “Don’t ever do that,” and “No more
treats if you do that.”

Author, “Secrets of a Professional Dog Trainer!“ which you can
read more about at: http://tinyurl.com/4efaq
 
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#58
Vince,
I just got back from the gym and spent my entire 40 minute run contemplating this problem. I can not tell you how many times I've wondered if I made a HUGE mistake by bringing Chihiro (my dobe puppy home). I also have a daughter, Jordan is 7. We had a few nipping instances that sent Jordan screaming in the very beginning. We've had destroyed toys and socks. The time that I spend training Chi is time away from Jordan. (or at least that is how she sees it sometimes and she is so very much an only child; as such, she believes the world revolves around her) When Jordan has friends over they can't run crazy through the house, unless Chi is in her kennel, like they did before. Puppies change the dynamics of the house, that's all there is to it. Good news is, and I remind myself of this daily, they are not puppies forever. If you are consistant now, if you lay the proper ground rules for puppy, wife and child alike now, if you make the sacrifices now, you will be rewarded with the loyal friendship of your dog.

I'm the one that brought Chi into the house. Although the entire family loves her, she's my dog and therefore my responsibility. Every nip, every destroyed toy, every problem that has arisen is actually my fault. Chi has done nothing that isn't completely natural for a pup to do and your pup is no different. These are problems that have could have been completely avoided if I had been a little more on the ball.

It sounds like you are really down to the wire right now and the possibility of rehoming your pup is becoming more of a reality. If I were you, and you really want to keep him, I would work on complete management as you work on training. Do not allow the pup the opportunity to nip at your daughter. That means the pup is on a leash and with you at all times. If you can't have him right with you with both eyes on him, then confine him in a kennel or another room. By having him confined or under direct control, he won't have the opportunity to nip and you can set him up for success. You can still teach him and your daughter how to play and react with each other. I think your daughter will be a little more at ease once she realizes that you have complete control of the situation.
This won't last forever, just until you can teach him not to nip and teach your daughter how to properly react to him. But, it won't happen over night either, it will take time and commitment from you.


In the beginning I let both Chi and Jordan dictate how things would go. Not anymore :) Jordan is learning her responsibilities, if a toy is destroyed, it's because she didn't pick it up like she was supposed to and is her fault. (My husband sees this as survival of the fittest, she has entirely too many toys anyway and Chi is helping us clean house :) ) On the other hand, I have really stepped up the game in teaching Chihiro house manners. No more running laps through the house, unless it is initiated by either my husband or myself. No more jumping or getting on the furniture, unless she is invited. No more begging for food. It's taken a lot of work to get to this point and I still have days that I feel like getting rid of the kid, the dogs, the cat and the husband :) but those days are becoming fewer and further between. GSD's are smart, smart, smart dogs, they LOVE their families. I have no doubt that if you are willing and are able to make sacrifices in time and routine now, it won't be long before everything falls into place.

Oh and how much excercise does the pup get? I love the mantra of "a happy dobe is a tired dobe", I have found it to be completely true! I'm sure it's the same with GSDs. Wear the little bugger out! Long walks, runs in the yard and such will help. If he's not getting enough excercise he's going to be more jumpy and excited in the house. If you have begun teaching him obedience, use it! For some reason it took me a while to realize that we teach them these things for a reason. Sit/stay comes in very handy when teaching manners :) We don't teach it just so we can show our friends that our dogs know how to sit and stay :) The key is we have to "teach" this stuff. Jordan kept telling Chi to roll over yesterday and got very discouraged because she didn't comply. I had to sit and explain to her that Chi doesn't speak English. She knows some words but only the words that we've taught her.

Good luck and keep us updated!
 

rottnpagan

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#59
Chithedobe said:
Vince,
I just got back from the gym and spent my entire 40 minute run contemplating this problem. I can not tell you how many times I've wondered if I made a HUGE mistake by bringing Chihiro (my dobe puppy home).

.......................


Good luck and keep us updated!
What a great post!! That was VERY VERY good info!!
 
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#60
rottnpagan said:
You can also try putting the dog on a leash when she starts to get too wound up. Put the leash on and then you sit down, holding the end of it. Ignore the dog, just hold the lead still. The dog will eventually sit down and then lay down.

Please ALWAYS supervise your dog and your children. (I'm sure you are, but it's worth noting!) Don't leave them unattended, even to go into the next room. It's not worth it.
Thank you for the compliment Rottnpagan :) I think we are really on the same page :)
Bringing Chi in has been an eye opener for me. I'm sure Vince is feeling much the same way about Sasha. I'm not sure if his daughter has been around many dogs or puppies before. Jordan has been around dogs her entire life BUT Chi is the first super puppy she's ever really been around. Petri is a Chihuahua mix and tiny, wasn't a huge deal bringing him in the house. The other dogs were around before she was born :)

I know I really didn't anticipate how much work it would be having a child her age and a puppy. Like many I just kind of thought kids and puppies go together, what the big deal? right? WRONG! But I'm learning that the more control I exerpt, the more control I gain and sanity I can keep :) At this point, when I walk upstairs, Chi will walk up behind me and automatically go into her kennel. That's just the way it is. If I can't be right there with the two of them, Chi is in her kennel. I have to shower? Chi goes in her kennel. It's just not worth risking injury to either child or dog. Now, I do advocate teaching your child how to properly care for and train a dog. Chi listens to Jordan just about as well as she listens to me. But I don't think they should be expected to know how to handle problem situations or should be placed in the position where they HAVE to handle them.

Keeping them on-lead in the house is a pain but sometimes it's just a price you have to pay.
 

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